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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Stever32 on Friday 24 November 17 21:37 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone please assist me in identifying the town, village, or city in the following clip from an Old German document? I suspect it is in the Saxony region of Old Germany. Thanks for any assistance you might provide.
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Bit of a shot in the dark, but could it be Meißen?
It could be an Esszet in the middle...
Karen
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Hi Karen,
Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure as to the place. The document from which this is from is a marriage record from Wienhausen Lower Saxony. Baptismal records for this union's first two offspring show a slightly different iteration (I think) of the same place (see below), but I can't identify it either.
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Hi
i read Moiß (Mois).
https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20201083
He could have been born in Mois and then married in Wienhausen
Dave
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Thanks for this Dave. That's certainly a possibility. It looks to me that there is another letter present after the "ss" or, "z" in the case of the other two words. Worth a check though.
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Hi Karen,
Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure as to the place. The document from which this is from is a marriage record from Wienhausen Lower Saxony. Baptismal records for this union's first two offspring show a slightly different iteration (I think) of the same place (see below), but I can't identify it either.
Lower Saxony is where I live. :) And it's a long way away from Saxony. And even further away from Poland. ;)
Wienhausen is about an hour away from us. Lovely place with a beautiful monastery where they hold craft fairs. It is (now) part of the district of Celle. I can't find anything in that area with a name which looks remotely like the one in your scan. I'm a bit tired, though - I'll have another look tomorrow. :)
Karen
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Next try.
Could it be Moide
https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/20201080
Moide is 60 Km from Wienhausen.
https://www.google.de/maps/dir/Wienhausen,+29342/Moide,+29614+Soltau/@52.7816796,9.8057227,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x47b01f16a7a874b3:0x4263df27bd66a50!2m2!1d10.1870924!2d52.5779722!1m5!1m1!1s0x47b1b537f1664317:0xa263df5063e7960!2m2!1d9.942468!2d52.986842
Dave
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Hi Dave,
I don't see a "D" in the word. The only other clue I can offer is an attempt to show the place where this person's wife came from on the off chance that they are from the same general area, wherever that is. I had to cut and paste the word prior to scanning it as it started at the end of one line and ended at the start of another line in the original document. (I apologize for the quality of the image. My computer skills are VERY limited.)
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I think the word in post #2 fairly clearly reads Meize, which I would guess is the archaic spelling of Meitze (about 35 km west of Wienhausen).
I have often seen the letter 't' slip in to and out of spellings.
Justin
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I still think the name starts with "Moi". by the way this is a small "d" in old German
Dave
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I think the word in post #2 fairly clearly reads Meize, which I would guess is the archaic spelling of Meitze (about 35 km west of Wienhausen).
I have often seen the letter 't' slip in to and out of spellings.
Justin
I see what you mean. I think the second letter in the first version of the word does indeed look like an "e". Which doesn't rule out the possibility of it being a wonky "o", though... ::)
Hmmm...
Moide is (now) a tiddly little village with 30-odd inhabitants.
Meitze is a relatively sleepy village (700-odd inhabitants) BUT used to be livelier. It stood at the crossing point of 2 important trade routes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitze
Hmmm...
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Stever, do you know when this Johann was born and/or his wife's name?
Karen
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Johann Gehrke's wife was Catherine Dorothee Goltermann (or something along those lines). I don't have any information on either of them other than this place of residence, which you guys are so graciously helping me out with, and a birth date for a Son, Heinrich Friedrich, who was born in about 1817. I'm hoping that Heinrich's place of birth is the same place. All of this is coming from the marriage record for Heinrich that I found, dated 1841. I'm guessing that Johann was born in the late 1790's but that is 100% a guess. Thank you so much for all of your assistance here you guys. :)
Stever
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Johann Gehrke's wife was Catherine Dorothee Goltermann (or something along those lines). I don't have any information on either of them other than this place of residence, which you guys are so graciously helping me out with, and a birth date for a Son, Heinrich Friedrich, who was born in about 1817. I'm hoping that Heinrich's place of birth is the same place. All of this is coming from the marriage record for Heinrich that I found, dated 1841. I'm guessing that Johann was born in the late 1790's but that is 100% a guess. Thank you so much for all of your assistance here you guys. :)
Stever
Who did Heinrich marry?
Dave
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Summary:
I still think the place in the first post is Moide.
I agree with Justin that in the 2 Post it is more than likely Meitze (Meize)
In the 8 Post, wife´s location, I read Weser-Bergland
Dave
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Hi Stever,
Think you might find this interesting:
(if it is public, I think I am allowed to link it?)
http://www.online-ofb.de/famreport.php?ofb=wienhausen&ID=I34111&nachname=GEHRKE&modus=&lang=de
Bit too much of a coincidence not to be the same Johann.
Johann Heinrich Gehrke, born around 1786 in Bissendorf (Hannover), occupation: miller
Married Dorothea Golter, born around 1789
Son Heinrich Friederich, born around 1812 in Bissendorf (Hannover)
"Bissendorf (Hannover)" because there are several Bissendorfs in Germany.
This Bissendorf is about 35km from Wienhausen.
These are the details for son Heinrich:
http://www.online-ofb.de/famreport.php?ofb=wienhausen&ID=I34088&nachname=GEHRKE&lang=de
I've written to Mr Oelker (the man who is responsible for this info), asking if he can help with the place names. Let's see what he says.
Karen
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Wow! That would be a shock. I'd be very interested in seeing if this is the same person whom I seek.
The "Golter" in the document I have is definitely ending with "-mann" though. Not sure if that means anything or ....
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Just in case Mr Oelker asks: Is Johann an ancestor of yours? May I also ask what sort of document it is? (Please feel free to answer via private message if you don't want too much made public :))
Karen
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Hi Karen,
The document is a marriage record for Johann's Son Heinrich Friedrich, and yes, I am a descendant of him. :)
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Who did Heinrich marry?
Dave
Can you tell us, Stever? It would narrow things down a bit.
Karen
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Heinrich married Dorothea Cammann as Mr. Oelker's source had indicated.
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So it looks as though we are talking about the same people. :)
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Steve emailed me the complete entry.
Starting at the end of line 2, the text reads 'Amts Bißendorf'. The village/hamlet of Meitze was in the district (Amt) of Bissendorf.
Dorothea may have come from Wennebostel (spelt Wennebosterl), which is very close to Bissendorf.
Whoever made this entry in the register used some interesting spellings. Johann Gehrke was a Mühlherr (a mill owner). However, the first 'h' has been omitted.
Justin
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Thanks for this Justin. Looking at the document again last night I came to the same conclusion regarding the two places you've indicated. I wasn't able to get the "Amts" or "Muhlherr" parts though. Anything else on there you can read would be appreciated. Thanks again for all of your assistance in this.
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Steve,
Does your original scan cover much of the marriage entry above the Gehrke-Cammann record?
I'm still trying to determine the exact spelling of Dorothea's place of birth - Wenneboserl - so it would be useful to see more examples of 'st'.
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There´s a Wennebostel 1,5 Km north of Bissendorf
https://www.google.de/maps/place/Wennebostel,+30900+Wedemark/@52.5250017,9.7480019,14.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47b06cf5b8293569:0xc919b0795fe22a07!8m2!3d52.5319406!4d9.7517696?hl=de
Dave
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Hey Dave and Justin,
I see Wennebostel although I agree that spelling of it is weird. Looks like records for that area 1795-1852 are missing or haven't yet been digitized so I think I'm at a dead end at this point.