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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Sbowie70 on Thursday 23 November 17 20:30 GMT (UK)
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Hello All,
I am searching for information and confirmation that I am on the right track with research on the family of David John Bowen. I am a bit lost with where and how to search and seem to be floundering around a bit at the moment. If someone could point me in the right direction, it would be appreciated.
What I know, or think I know;
David John Bowen was born about 1801 in Bedminster. In Nov 1831 he married Winifred Price, who at the time I believe was a widow. They had two children, David John in 1831 and william in 1835. The 1841 census has the four living in Back Street, St Nicholas, Bristol. David John snr is listed as a seaman.
I am confident that I can to a small degree track the two children from this point, but unsure of the parents. There are a number of deaths that I have found for David Bowen 1842, 1845 and 1850, but the ages dont seem to match.
In the 1851 census I find a David Bowen - retired mariner living in Chelsea, but would appear with a new wife (Mary) and an addition child (Albert). I can't seem to find a death for Winifred between the 1841 and 1851 census, but there may be a few marriages in that time.
Importantly I cant seem to find anything to confirm the 1851 census is the same David Bowen as the 1841, nor any death for him after 1851 if it is.
Any suggestions on how I might find this out would be greatly appreciated.
Sean
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I could be wrong, and I think you would need to get some certificates to be sure, but there is the possibility that David died in 1845 - death registered Jun qtr Clifton (11/232) - aged 40. Then there is a marriage for Winifred BOWEN in 1846 to either William TROTT or David WILLIAMS - Jun qtr 1846 Bristol (11/196). Interestingly there is also a death for Winifred WILLIAMS Mar qtr 1848 at Bristol (11/146) aged 47.
Just speculation I'm afraid, but possibly worth pursuing?
Where are the children in the 1851? I couldn't see them very easily ???
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1861 the David living in Middlesex is still alivel
1861 Census
Chelsea, Middlesex
Daniel Bowen, 62, Widr, formerly a Seaman, born Bristol, Somerset
Albert Bowen, 20, Son, Unm, Clerk and Wine Merchant, born London, Middlesex
Image looks like DAVID to me
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Marriage ?????;
24 Apr 1843, Bedminster, Somerset
David BOWEN, Father GEORGE Bowen
Mary OWEN, Father WILLIAM Owen
May be more of a hindrance than help as Albert is born c 1841 before Marriage.
Albert marries 1873 St Mary, Battersea, Wandsworth and names his Father as Daniel a Gentleman.
I think maddys52 may be on the right track with 1845 death and remarriage/death for Winifred.
Also 1841 Census just has that David is NOT born in Glous so if he died before 1851 Census he may have been born anywhere in England.
Cant find the children in 1851 either.
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? Not sure if this is the Forum Members Tree
Public Member tree on Ancestry
David John BOWEN 1801-1842 - died 17 September 1842, Bedminster, Somerset
Winifred PRICE 1801 -
The two boys
David John BOWEN 11 - marriage in 1855, Sydney, New South Wales, Austrlia to Catherine Amelia ASHER - (1840-1884) and then married again in 1885 to Bridge Maria SHANAHAN.
David John BOWEN 11 - died in Sydney, Australia - 12 May 1898
William BOWEN - came by assisted passage to Australia - arrival : 23 August 1854 and married 8 February 1855 St Kilda Melbourne, to Marian GRAY
etc
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1842 David was older;
GRO Death Reg Index;
BOWEN, DAVID, age 56
GRO Reference: 1842 S Quarter in BEDMINSTER Volume 11 Page 48
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Maddy,
William Bowen appears on the 1851 census in Gloucestershire. Occupation is Hairdressers apprentice, which is Williams occupation on his Australian Marriage records once he gets here. Age and place of birth on 1851 census match my william Bowen born 1835. I can find no record of David John Jnr, however he may be at sea at the time.
Capetown, that is similar information that I originally had before stumbling across the 1851 Census which all digitised records record as Daniel Bowen, however looking at the images could easily be David also, occupation, age and location seem to match. I thought the 1842 death made sense and perhaps coincided with David Jnr going to sea.
Trish, Perhaps the 1845 death makes sense considering I had looked at the 1846 marriage to william Trott for Winifred.
Where would I obtain the actual birth, death or marriage records to try and get some clarity?
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I think if you purchased the marriage certificate from the GRO for Winifred BOWEN Jun qtr 1846 Bristol (11/196), it should say whether she is a widow or not, and her father's name. You said in your original post that Winifred may have been a widow when she married David BOWEN - do you have any more details, what her maiden name or father's name was ?
Purchasing the death certificate might not reveal as much information, UK death certs not providing as much info as Australian ones. ;)
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Hi Maddy,
I think I am going to have to purchase a few certificates, but its handy to know the death certs wont be of great assistance. The marriage record I found for David John BOWEN and Winifred Price, lists Winifred as a widow. I am only assuming then that Price is her first married name. The only info I can find that might link to this is a prior marriage between Winifred Darral and Richard Price, and then a death of Richard Price prior to the 1831 mariage of David and Winifred.
Where do I purchase the certificates?
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The GRO (General Register Office) is where you can order certificates. See here for FAQ
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/most_customers_want_to_know.asp#FamilyHistory
(Of course, records only started in 1837, so you won't find David and Winifred's marriage there.)
Yours does sound like a tricky problem though, as you don't know for certain what Winifred's father's name was - or is it on the record you have?
The death cert may contain occupation and usual place of residence, and the name of the informant may be useful to you in establishing whether you have the correct David BOWEN. If you don't mind spending the $s then it's probably worth the gamble, but it's up to you. ;)
Maybe someone might have some other ideas?
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Purchasing the death certificate might not reveal as much information, UK death certs not providing as much info as Australian ones. ;)
Good work! but...I'm going to rephrase that ;D...
In the UK, English & Welsh death certs. don't give has much info. as Scottish death certs. which give status married/widowed, give both previous husband/wife's names if previously married (even if the widow(er) is not the informant) as well as both parents names with father's occ. & mother's m/s (providing the informant knew those details) & sometimes gives the address of the informant.
Scottish certs. are among of the best in the world.
However, had I not bought my 3 x g g/father's English death cert. hoping to discover if he was a widower on death (it neither stated married/widowed) or who he was married to, I would never have known his daughter was married or who to as her forename has many variants & their surname has many variants i.e. I could have been searching forever so there are advantages too :D
Annie
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I stand corrected ;D ;D, not having any Scottish ancestors I forget their certs are much more detailed!
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Maddy...
It just seemed a good idea to add that in as sometimes people are unaware of just how great Scottish certs. are & I'm so glad :P
I'm in a pickle right now with an English marriage & birth of their child but I can't get the m/s of the mother on the marriage index (of who I think it is) & the m/s of the mother (on the birth index) to tally...very confusing ::)
Basically, I could buy 6 Scottish certs. for the same price as 1 English with no guarantee it's correct.
Annie
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Thank you Maddy and Annie. I think I am going to have to go back to the start of my research and go through everything and compare things and go from there. Then maybe get a cert or two to confirm. Yes the Scottish and Australian ones have so much more useful information on them, but hopefully I will find the answer to this riddle.
It's only now I realise that I should have paid more attention in Geography at school, and perhaps would have had a better idea about the layout etc of England, in which I have none. lol
Good luck with your pickle Annie,
and thank you both again.
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Hi Sean,
I would definitely get that M/C if I was you. Being in Australia too I have purchased a couple of English Certs that really helped me with my Tree.
Trish :)
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'Hi Trish,
I think I am going to have to get the M/C atleast and see where that leads. Its so much easier researching scottish lines.
Sean
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Let us know the outcome of the Cert when you get it :)
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Will do. I have emailed Bristol Archives to go through the process of getting a copy.