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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 14:14 GMT (UK)

Title: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 14:14 GMT (UK)
This is not a brick wall - it is made of steel! I am revisiting my 2x great grandfather Frederick Culliford who was born in 1814 in Walcot Bath. There are several posts on here about him and his wife.  I have never found a marriage for a him to my 2x great grandmother Eliza Roberts who first child (Frederick) was born in 1851. I think I may have found the reason. There is a possibility he may have already been married. Recently, while looking for his military records I came across a record that implies a Frederick Culliford married in Charlton Kent in 1840. It states that Frederick Culliford married Fanny on 16/10/1840. It could possibly be him so have been looking for this marriage, but cannot find it. I have never found him on the 1841 census either (he is probably away at sea)– but surely I should be able to find this Fanny in 1841– but no! Can you help?
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: grandarog on Tuesday 21 November 17 14:39 GMT (UK)
According to a couple of trees on Ancestry (always Suspect for accuracy) He Married ELIZA ANN DUDFIELD and they had 10 Children. :) :) :)

The Navy Frederick Culliford that Married Fanny was not your chap he was born in Bridgewater Somerset.

This might help ..............

https://www.british-genealogy.com/archive/index.php/t-21691.html

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/genealogy/records/frederick-culliford_164880638

Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 14:55 GMT (UK)
1851 census Black Horse Inn Worcester

Frederick Culliford  lodger 37 unmar Corp. Royal Marines born unknown

Jennifer
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: grandarog on Tuesday 21 November 17 15:11 GMT (UK)
1851 census Black Horse Inn Worcester

Frederick Culliford  lodger 37 unmar Corp. Royal Marines born unknown

Jennifer

I think thats the one that Married Fanny.☺☺ He ended up with a Navy Pension.
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 15:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Grandarog

The post from 2007 on BG Forum was me!!
I have got a long way since then.
I have never found a marriage between Frederick and Eliza Ann Roberts (AKA Dudfield), but that is his record on the ancestry link.
Eliza Ann was actually born in 1832, (Frederick in 1814) so he was quite a bit older than her.  That is why the marriage reference in 1840 that I found while looking for his military records is a distinct possiblity.  It had never really crossed my mind before that he had been married prior to his relationship with Eliza Ann.  If I could find a GRO reference for it, I could get the certificate and check it out, but there is no reference that I can find.

Hi Jennifer C
Yes, that is Frederick in 1851.  Eliza Ann is living in Pershore at this time and is also pregnant. 
The family ended up living in Woolwich, which again is close to Charlton and the Woolwich barracks - again, the record I found could be him!

 :-[ :-\
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 15:20 GMT (UK)


I think thats the one that Married Fanny.☺☺ He ended up with a Navy Pension.

That is my Frederick!  but am beginning to think he did marry Fanny
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 15:31 GMT (UK)
Grandarog - I just noticed you stated this
Quote
The Navy Frederick Culliford that Married Fanny was not your chap he was born in Bridgewater Somerset.

Where did you get this information?

My Frederick Culliford was also in the Navy.  He died in 1875 and was a Greenwich pensioner.
In 1861, Eliza Ann 'Culliford' is on the census described as a seaman's wife.
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 16:00 GMT (UK)
Perhaps she only married William Bone Finding as she married as Eliza Dutfield Spinster father Samuel a gardener. 1873 St. Nicholas Deptford.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: jennifer c on Tuesday 21 November 17 16:13 GMT (UK)
The Culliford children seem to marry as Dutfield.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 16:37 GMT (UK)
Yes you are right Jennifer.  Thank you.
I just want to find out more information about the Frederick Culliford and Fanny marriage in Charlton 1840.
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: grandarog on Tuesday 21 November 17 18:50 GMT (UK)
I am afraid I still disagree that The Frederick William Culliford . I mentioned is your Chap .

1.. The chap I mentioned  was born in Bridgewater not Walcot.
2.. Your Frederick baptised in Walcot was son of George and Susanna.
3.. His mother was Jane Hoskins living at Stonehouse ,Devonport.
4.  If he had married Fanny in 1840 when he allocated her money.he changed the allocation to his   
     Mother Jane Hoskins in 1850
4..He is then shown as marrying Mary Ann Nile at East Stonehouse Devonport in 1853. 5c 494

 5 ..The Fred that is receiving a pension granted in 1856 could be either of them !!!

Source :-National Archives.
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 19:19 GMT (UK)
That is brilliant.
The confusion lies that my Frederick Culliford also was a seaman.  I believe the Frederick found at The Black Horse in Worcester in 1851 is my Frederick as he was born in 1814 - the correct year. On his son Walter's marriage entry, Frederick was described as the recruiting sergeant for the Royal Marines.
He was also a Greenwich pensioner.

So do you think it was my Frederick that married Fanny, because if he did - it throws the cat among the pigeons.  And - what happened to her? Where is the evidence of the marriage?
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: grandarog on Tuesday 21 November 17 20:10 GMT (UK)
If I remember without looking back Fred at the Black horse was a Royal Marine Corporal. Presuming his son was Married a few years later that would have given him time to have been promoted to Sergeant

That could confirm he is yours  I  suppose. However I cant see any way to be really sure.

The Fanny "marriage" could well have been a fiddle to claim extra pay, she may not have existed in real life and was an alias name of his mother.
Good Luck sorting it out. At least your steel wall has a few dents and bits knocked out now. ;D
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 20:25 GMT (UK)
Quote
If I remember without looking back Fred at the Black horse was a Royal Marine Corporal. Presuming his son was Married a few years later that would have given him time to have been promoted to Sergeant

I think Frederick must have ended his days as a recruiting sergeant, as the marrage I referred to actally happened in 1888, after Frederick's death in 1875.

Quote
The Fanny "marriage" could well have been a fiddle to claim extra pay, she may not have existed in real life and was an alias name of his mother.

That is an interesting thought.  I suppose I shouldn't be so naive and take things with a large pinch of salt more often.  I think I am going to ignore Fanny as I can find no more evidence to support her being married to my Frederick.



Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: snowyw on Tuesday 21 November 17 20:35 GMT (UK)
Just found this:

   
Frederick William Culliford
England, Devon, Parish Registers
Name   Frederick William Culliford
Event Type   Marriage
Event Date   1853
Event Place   Devon
Age   26
Birth Year (Estimated)   1827
Spouse's Name   Mary Ann Nile

Seems that Frederick William was born in 1827, so the Frederick in The Black Horse must be mine.....and still might be the one who "married" Fanny in 1840, as Frederick William would only have been 11 years old. 

Heck!!!
Title: Re: Frederick Culliford Marriage?
Post by: grandarog on Tuesday 21 November 17 21:04 GMT (UK)
Thats the Marriage in the bottom pic on my previous post.