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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: AbbieRose on Thursday 09 November 17 08:56 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
You all helped me with this previously a few months ago. Martha Locke is a distant direct relative of mine whom was quite a mysterious person. She claimed her only child, Ellen, was an illegitimate child of a 'Lord Ashton' whom she was a servant for.
This story went down for many years and I set out to prove once and for all whether it was true, or simply words of a woman fantasizing.
With a lot of assistance from you lovely members of Roots Chat, we discovered that she was indeed a servant for a number of years, including in the 1891 census. One of you found an article from 1892 of her being in a carriage incident with the same family she worked for in the 1891 census. She then appears to have moved on. Another article we believe relating to her shows a Martha Locke/Lock who was arrested for stealing clothes from a family she was a servant for in Manchester.
After that, she completely disappears until the 1901 census, where she is found in a workhouse in her homeland, Worcestershire. There she resides with a baby, Ellen.
What we know beyond that is she married a man with the surname Nash and he took Ellen on as his own, but Martha always told her about how her real father was a Lord Ashton who sent her to the workhouse.
Now, I found it interesting that she was sent to a Worcestershire-located workhouse rather than Manchester as I would have thought her employers would have sent her to the nearest one to have her illegitimate child. This made us consider that perhaps the reason she was sent so far away was because the child was indeed that of a lord's child. However, we have no proof of this.
I know that there was a Thomas Gair Ashton that was located in Manchester at one point. Also, dare I say it, my grandfather looks VERY much like him. If this is to be true, Thomas Gair Ashton would have been his grandfather.
The problem is, I can't find Martha in between 1896 and 1901. I need some sort of proof she did indeed work for a 'Lord Ashton'. Someone suggested finding employment records underneath Thomas Gair Ashton, but I just don't know where to look.
Can any of you help me once more?
Thanks,
AbbieRose
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Previous posting to save going over old ground.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776068.msg6297046#msg6297046
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Wasn't it common practice for paupers to be the responsibility of their birth parish even if they resided elsewhere? This may be the reason she ended up in the workhouse in Worcestershire.
Isobel
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Previous posting to save going over old ground.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776068.msg6297046#msg6297046
Thank you, I didn't know how to find the original post. If anyone wants to refer to this to see what we originally found out, please do!
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Wasn't it common practice for paupers to be the responsibility of their birth parish even if they resided elsewhere? This may be the reason she ended up in the workhouse in Worcestershire.
Isobel
That's what I thought, but we found it was apparently common practice for employers to send them to the nearest workhouse so that they could return to the workplace afterwards. Not only was Martha sent very far away, but she never returned, which we found odd.
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To give a little context, I tried the following that people suggested with no results:
The National Archive
Local (Manchester) Researcher
Manchester Archives for Family Research
I don't know if there's anywhere else that may hold employment records for Thomas Gair Ashton or anyone that would know where to look to find who Martha's employer was between 1986 and 1901.
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Would there be a biography of him about that might give details of where he was at what time - to put him and Martha together.
What date was Ellen born?
He has a son born in 1901.
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Something is not quite right here. I believe your interest is in Martha Ellen Locke who married William Nash. In 1911 she is shown as born c1875 in Northfield, Worcestershire This lady is almost certainly the Martha Ellen Isabella Locke born in 1874 in Kings Norton and living with parents Charles and Elizabeth in Bromsgrove in 1881, place of birth Northfield.
Martha M Locke listed as a servant in 1891 is age 19 ( Ancestry say 14 and FindMyPast says 17 but looking at the image closely it is 19) and was born Wick, Worcestershire. She is almost certainly Martha Maria Locke born in Pershore ( which includes Wick) in 1872.
These appear to be two different people.
Isobel
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Would there be a biography of him about that might give details of where he was at what time - to put him and Martha together.
What date was Ellen born?
He has a son born in 1901.
Ellen was also born in 1901. I am sure I found a pdf document that placed him in the manchester area in a house that belonged to his family. His wife and children were located in London at the time on a census, but he was not listed there. This makes me question as to whether he remained in his family house, which I believe is now a school?
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Something is not quite right here. I believe your interest is in Martha Ellen Locke who married William Nash. In 1911 she is shown as born c1875 in Northfield, Worcestershire This lady is almost certainly the Martha Ellen Isabella Locke born in 1874 in Kings Norton and living with parents Charles and Elizabeth in Bromsgrove in 1881, place of birth Northfield.
Martha M Locke listed as a servant in 1891 is age 19 ( Ancestry say 14 and FindMyPast says 17 but looking at the image closely it is 19) and was born Wick, Worcestershire. She is almost certainly Martha Maria Locke born in Pershore ( which includes Wick) in 1872.
These appear to be two different people.
Isobel
This is absolutely heartbreaking; I really thought I had narrowed it down and proved most of her story to be true! I'm at a loss for words really; you are correct about the two different Marthas. I'm not really sure how to proceed with this now!
We are desperate to work out if her story was true or not and, ultimately, try and figure out who Ellen's father really was.
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I have looked and looked for Martha in 1891 and can't see any sign of her. I found her sister Julia working as a servant, so the chances are that is also what Martha was employed as. Her father Charles had died in Bromsgrove in 1882 and in 1886 her mother remarried to John Tolley. They were living in Stoke Prior in 1891 with William Lock 10 ( her son by Charles) and a daughter Florence Tolley born Bromsgrove c 1887. This child appears to have been born Florence May Locke in 1886 mmn Not stated.
Isobel
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I am sure I found a pdf document that placed him in the manchester area in a house that belonged to his family. His wife and children were located in London at the time on a census, but he was not listed there.
Far as I can see Thomas is with his wife and family in London in 1901.
Sorry to ask again but when exactly was Martha's child born?
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I am sure I found a pdf document that placed him in the manchester area in a house that belonged to his family. His wife and children were located in London at the time on a census, but he was not listed there.
Far as I can see Thomas is with his wife and family in London in 1901.
Sorry to ask again but when exactly was Martha's child born?
Really? I thought the 1901 census didn't have his name on. Perhaps he did live there with them and his name was on a previous page on the census, but still owned the family home in Manchester.
Ellen was believed to have been born 18th March 1901, but given the nature of her birth, this might not be 100% accurate to the day. Certainly around Spring time of 1901! :)
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No it's not on a different page or anything. He is just plain Thomas though (hope I'm looking at the right one!) Wife Eva Margaret?
Thanks so the baby was conceived around summer 1900.
Added yes it is the same family as address is the same as the next census phew.
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No it's not on a different page or anything. He is just plain Thomas though (hope I'm looking at the right one!) Wife Eva Margaret?
Thanks so the baby was conceived around summer 1900.
Added yes it is the same family as address is the same as the next census phew.
Maybe I just didn't notice then! This was quite a while ago I looked at it! ;D
I'm absolutely lost as to how I can locate Martha now. Based on her story, all the info I found on Martha (M) Locke matched my Martha (Martha E Locke). Finding out they weren't the same person is not only disheartening, but it means I don't know where she was between leaving home and Ellen being born!
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Here's one to check out in 1891 - surname is wrong but I can't find a birth for this name
Martha E Darke 16 born Birlingham Worcestershire
Unfortunately she is a "penitent" House of Mercy Bussage Glos
Darke/Locke might be misconstrued - she says hopefully
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Here's one to check out in 1891 - surname is wrong but I can't find a birth for this name
Martha E Darke 16 born Birlingham Worcestershire
Unfortunately she is a "penitent" House of Mercy Bussage Glos
Darke/Locke might be misconstrued - she says hopefully
I often find names and ages are misread and therefore, recorded incorrectly on search database. That's interesting you found that. May I ask where you found that, so that I may look myself? :)
EDIT: I found it! It does seem to say Darke. However, it does mention that 'of the penitents, little reliable information can be obtained'.
IF that is her, it's likely she wasn't honest about her name.
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Yes it's on ancestry. Just looking in newspapers but only have the free search facility.
Did you say she was in trouble in Manchester area for something that was reported?
Any dates are useful to pin down where she was.
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Yes it's on ancestry. Just looking in newspapers but only have the free search facility.
Did you say she was in trouble in Manchester area for something that was reported?
Any dates are useful to pin down where she was.
Well, initially, with help on my previous thread, we found a few newspaper articles. One in 1892 of her suffering a broken leg in a carriage incident, and another in 1896 of her being arrested for stealing clothes from her employers. Both times she was a servant to families.
I was recently, in this thread, correct that the family she worked for in 1891 was not her, but another Martha Locke that had the middle name Maria. My Martha had the middle name Ellen, making the idea of her being a servant in 1891 null and void.
I cannot confirm whether the Martha mentioned in the 1892 and 1896 newspaper articles were Martha Ellen Locke or Martha Maria Locke.
Based on the idea this 'Martha E Darke' could be her, I would be inclined to believe the 1896 article of her stealing could be her...
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I'm hopeful you know because there doesn't seem to be a Martha E Darke birth or other reference to that name.
There's a Maria E Darke a little older but she is safely elsewhere in 1881/1891 so not mistaken for her.
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I'm hopeful you know because there doesn't seem to be a Martha E Darke birth or other reference to that name.
There's a Maria E Darke a little older but she is safely elsewhere in 1881/1891 so not mistaken for her.
This is interesting. Based on the fact her siblings got jobs as servants, I would believe she held a job as a servant too. I'm no longer 100% convinced the 1892 carriage incident is Martha Ellen Locke, but I'm still convinced the Martha Locke sentenced for stealing clothes from the family she was a servant for could be her. Especially if it's possible she was a penitent.
I definitely think finding some employment records for her or employer records for Thomas Ashton might tell us once and for all where she was in 1899-1901!
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Do you remember the name of the family she stole clothes from?
I can see the carriage incident snippet but not that one yet - it's ok have found it.
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Do you remember the name of the family she stole clothes from?
I can see the carriage incident snippet but not that one yet - it's ok have found it.
Her employer at that time was a Mr Frank Garrett :)
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The carriage incident is definitely Martha Maria as it mentions the family she was with in 1891. One of the papers I read also mentioned that Martha's brother was also on the coach, but was unhurt, and that he was a policeman.
I considered Martha E Darke as well, but don't know how you would ever prove for sure.
Isobel
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It's been a struggle! I've attempted this for months :)
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Information about Bussage House of Mercy. Apparently some of their records are in Gloucestershire Archive.
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Information about Bussage House of Mercy. Apparently some of their records are in Gloucestershire Archive.
I've just contacted them! Thank you so much for discovering this, it's truly interesting and I want to learn more on it!
I'm also going to try and look deeper into Thomas Gair Ashton and contact the right archives. I think the nail in the coffin for this theory of who Ellen's biological father is, is to see if she was under his employment before 1901.
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There were two “Lord Ashtons” at the time. Thomas Gair Ashton, Baron of Hyde and James Williamson, Baron Ashton. James Williamson is Lord Ashton by location, and Thomas Ashton by Surname. I think you should check James Williamson out.