RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Mobo on Wednesday 03 August 05 13:13 BST (UK)
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:D :D :D
Having successfully found my 'Irish' many moons ago, I remember how long and difficult a journey it was.
In the light of this, I wonder how many Rootschatters out there are still 'struggling' with theirs.
;) ;) ;)
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Struggling?? Positively pulling my hair out!! All I know about a great chunk of my family tree is that they were 'born in Ireland' and came to England sometime before 1861. If only they had unusual surnames ... but they are Burkes and Doyles! Even the helpful people in the common rooms suggest that without a county name then I'm pretty stumped.
Julie
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Still struggling with my 'Irish', I had a break for a couple of years to concentrate on another line but recently decided to give it a go again. Its difficult trying to find any info, it makes me realise how difficult it must have been to research your family tree before the internet. I definitely wouldn't have had the time or the the money to do much research. ;D
Struggling?? Positively pulling my hair out!! All I know about a great chunk of my family tree is that they were 'born in Ireland' and came to England sometime before 1861. If only they had unusual surnames ... but they are Burkes and Doyles! Even the helpful people in the common rooms suggest that without a county name then I'm pretty stumped.
Julie
Doesn't make it any easier with an unusual name, mines McIlduff !!
Fiona
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Found two generation of my Irish but only because they came to Liverpool and stayed. Plus the unusual surname plus the fact that my lines quite often had two christian names.
Still cannot find them in Ireland though most likely they spelt their name different.
Jean
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;D ;D ;D
It all depends on when your Irish came to Britian, and I can only speak for the period I know about - the 'Famine' years 1845/1860
Anyhow, here's a little tip - it's more than likely your Irish were Catholic, so you could look at the PR'S of their local church, and if you can't, a polite letter to the Parish Priest and a small donation to the church will always produce a response.
Checking the PR'S is worthwhile as Catholic baptisms show the names of both godparents which were usually an aunt or uncle, and this enables you to find them on the Census. Likewise, witnesses at Marriage were usually a brother or sister (although sometimes neighbours were used). And again these can lead you to interesting finds on Census Returns.
Back then, most Irish families and their neighbours tended to settle in the same 'communities' on arriving in Britain, so you only have to find one of these individuals where they've put County of birth, and you can be pretty sure it's where's your relatives hailed from too. This happens more times than you'd think
Once you have the County - you're on your way...... remember, if you can't go forward, go from side to side or up and down .....
If anyone needs help, just ask ...........
::) ::)
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Good advice Mobo, but if you only have Ireland on the English census as I have with my Margaret Collins, you can't contact every church in Ireland.
I have spent the last couple of days looking at neighbours of my g grandmother hoping I would be as fortunate as Pam in finding a clue that way.
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Help. Just about to give up when I saw your piece in the common room. I have two sets of gt gt grandparents who are Irish and came to England in the 1840s.. The first set are called Charles and Ann Maguire ( nee Kelly ) they came to live in Hull , and in 1849 Ann gave birth to Agnes my gtgrandmother. The family are not on the 1851 census in Hull nor can I find them on any other censuses. By the 1881 census, Agnes must have met and married Michael George Doyle ( known as George ) and had a daughter Emily Agnes in 1877 and then Rose Hannah my grandmother in 1880. Of Agnes' parents there is no trace on any censuses. The godparents of Agnes at her baptizm were Bridget Moran and James W Perlan. of them there is no trace on a census. Michael George's parents, Michael and Emily Doyle ( nee Hurley ) came to England in the 1840s and lived in Liverpool for a time when they had a son Patrick J Doyle in 1848. They then moved to Staffordshire where Michael George was born. The next census i have with them on is 1861 in Cheshire then in 1871 Michael the father is a widower. The rest for that family I have. It is where they came from that I want to know. My grateful thanks to anyone who can help.
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See what I mean?? Doyle's everywhere!!
Julie
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i cant get any further with my husbands family, all he knows is they are from ballymena and his grandad is called edward and great grandad is called patrick(mcdermott), nobody knows anything else about them or any relatives so we are totaly stuck
onecoat
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All I can say is that - before you undertake Irish research, you must master the virtue of patience ;D
I wish you all the best of luck.
Ryan.
:)
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Good advice Mobo, but if you only have Ireland on the English census as I have with my Margaret Collins, you can't contact every church in Ireland.......
Sorry Nessie, you've mistunderstod - I was, of course, referring to their local Church in England !!
:D :D
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all he knows is they are from ballymena .... onecoat
As you're probably aware onecoat, Ballymena is in County Antrim, Northern Ireland, a place outside my experience, unfortunately.
However, you could try contacting one of County Antrim's Historical/Heritage Centres on the link below
http://www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/county/antrim.html
Happy hunting !!
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.. The first set are called Charles and Ann Maguire ( nee Kelly ) they came to live in Hull ....
thindle, as both your Irish families settled on opposite sides of the Pennines, first, you should get in touch with the East Yorkshire Family History Society. I'm sure they'll have no trouble helping you on the subject of Irish Immigration to the Port of Hull. You'll find them on this link
http://www.eyfhs.org.uk/
;D ;D ;D
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.....to England in the 1840s and lived in Liverpool for a time when they had a son Patrick J Doyle in 1848. They then moved to Staffordshire where Michael George was born. The next census i have with them on is 1861 in Cheshire then in 1871 Michael the father is a widower.
Ah.. would that your rellies had stayed in Liverpool thindle, they would have been much easier to find....I don't think Staffordshire & Cheshire had any sizeable Irish communites, but I may be wrong. ..... The best thing you can do is contact Peter Bennett on the Cheshire BOARD here on Rootschat and see what he can suggest.
Happy hunting !!
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:D :D :D
Julie & Floss,
you don't say where your 'Irish' settled in England, as I say, one of the first steps is to find the church they used.
:D :D
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:D :D :D
Jean,
As there were so many 'Irish' in Liverpool at the time, I'm sure the Liverpool & South West Lancs. History Society will have no trouble helping you with your searches. See the link below
http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/home.htm
Happy hunting !!
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thanks mobo, i will give it a go
onecoat
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My Burkes and Doyles both settled in the Ashton in Makerfield / Wigan area of Lancashire. I know the Burke family were in Golborne in 1861 and must have come over between 1853 and 1857 - they had a daughter born in Derbyshire in 1857, and a son born in Golborne in 1859 - I really ought to order a birth certificate for one of these as that will give me Mum's maiden name - just seems a silly expense when the child I'm really interested in is one of their earlier ones born in Ireland.
Julie
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:D :D
Julie,
I'm afraid it's more difficult when they moved around - not only did they use different churches, they were cut off from their friends and relatives, the very people who could possibly provide extra clues and info on Census Returns.
You'll just have to speculate to accumulate !!
;D ;D ;D
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Currently one of the 50% who gave up.
John Buckley - Perhaps we are related Mobo ;D
Wendi
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;D ;D ;D
No Wendi, we're not related - my BUCKLEY's were from Cheshire as you can see from my website on the profile below.
However, it's great that you know John was born in 1843 in the Parish of Cork, in the Town of Cork, in the County of Cork and have his parents' names too.
Armed with this information you should contact the Mallow Heritage Centre in County Cork, who I'm sure will be able to help, and whose details are on this site.
http://www.irish-roots.net/Cork.htm
As they themselves don't have a website, your first step would probably be to phone. Eventually, however, you will have to write to them giving all your details, so be sure to put Irish stamps on the letter, otherwise you wont get a reply. These can be obtained from 'An Post' in Dublin who are on the net see below.
http://www.irishstamps.ie/IrishStamps/
Have fun & Slán
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Genius not Mobo - RootChat or what, it goes without saying that I'll follow up your suggestions, for which I am SO grateful, and of course I'll let you know my findings.
Thank you for caring & Slán please enlighten me as to the language of my fore fathers ;D
Wendi
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;D ;D ;D
Don't quite follow your first line Wendi - but ne'er mind ??? ???
Slán = good-bye !
;D ;D
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First Line:
I rename you Genius and isn't RootChat a brilliant site, to allow people to share such information
Slán, for now
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Sorry I misunderstood your advice Mobo, but I don't know if it will help me or not. The 1880s is when my g grandmother arrived and although a catholic she married in a Church of England church. I believe her children were baptised as catholics, but don't know if it was at birth.
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I am researching my husband's Irish families. Both sides came from Ireland to Canada, in the 1840's and 1851. I have an idea of the general area they came from. It also helps that they have uncommon last names. McSheffrey and Snoddy!!! At least in Canada they are not very common. My next step to to start in Ireland it's self.
Anne
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The 1880s is when my g grandmother arrived and although a catholic she married in a Church of England church. I believe her children were baptised as catholics, but don't know if it was at birth.
Nessie,
When Irish immigrants came to England after the 'Famine' years (particulary 40 odd like yours) it becomes a bit more difficult as they tended to come alone or with just their immediate family.
However, it's still worth starting at their local Church, because they usually settled in an already established 'Irish' area. You don't say where yours lived ??
:) :)
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.... Both sides came from Ireland to Canada, in the 1840's and 1851. I have an idea of the general area they came from. It also helps that they have uncommon last names. McSheffrey and Snoddy!!!....
It always helps Anne if you give as much info as you can. What 'general area' are these people from ?? As for the names of McSheffrey and Snoddy, they sound scottish to me, so were they from the North ???
:) :) :)
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As far as I understand from talk by my grandmother, she came on her own from Ireland to visit her uncle in Leeds. The local Catholic church would have been St Patrick's in York Road. I know my grandmother and mother both attended St Patrick's school. My big problem is that the address she was married from, has no Irish connections whatsoever as far as I can check on certificates and the census.
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What a wonderful thread! PLEASE, Mobo and others, can you give me some advice??
Mine were in Ireland, and I do have some information. (I haven't voted because none of the options described me - with some information, still looking but stuck!)
I'm in Oz, so can't easily ring people or ask for Irish stamps, etc. The main things I am looking for at present are:
* death certs/ will abstracts for my gggrandparents. He died about 1882, probably in Dublin or Howth; she was still alive in 1886 in Howth, but we do not know when she died.
* siblings for my ggrandfather, who was born in 1837 in Co Tyrone (goodness knows why, when his father was a Dublin-based barrister!) I realise this will be difficult. We think the family was C of I - my ggrandfather became a C of E priest. They are not on the IGI (how I wish!)
I am beginning to think I need a researcher, but have been thoroughly warned that they are expensive, and many in Ireland are inefficient and unreliable.
If you can help me here, please do. If you know a good, efficient researcher in Ireland (probably Dublin), please pm me with details!
Thanks,
MarieC
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:D :D :D
Nessie,
You could try this Irish Community site in Leeds.
http://www.lihcs.org.uk/
If St Patrick's Church is still there, get in touch with the priest and ask him if you can look up the Baptisms of your relatives. If not, the records of these should be in the local Library or Record Office
You can look them up yourself, or ask someone to do it for you.
That's all I can offer I'm afraid.
:) :)
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:D :D
Marie
Although you live in Oz, you can send e-mails and order things on the net I presume, and with the information you have, I'd say you're half way there.
I myself used an excellent genealogst (but he covered the West of Ireland). However you might find what you're looking for on the link below.
http://genealogypro.com/directories/Ireland.html
Their hourly rate is about £30.00 (worth every penny as far as I'm concerned, more so I would think to someone in Oz)
Anyway, if you're not prepared to pay, then you might try the Fingal Heritage Society in Dublin
http://www.irish-roots.net/Fingal.htm
Happy hunting !!
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Hello Mobo
You are obviously an expert. Any asssistance you could give would be really appreciated! I have posted up my Brooks of Dublin c.1790 on another board, but I would dearly love to find more about their migration to Coventry c.1820's. Family were RC Richard & Eleanor Brooks with son John, a weaver. Parents must have married in Dublin c. 1795 but at such an early date are there any RC registers at all?All I can find is John Brooks & Sarah baptising a daughter Mary in 1697 St John the Evangelist, Dublin, which I think is RC. (This is on LDS) I imagine they lived in the Coombes district of Dublin where there is a Weaver's Square, but otherwise in Ireland I am stuck (as are many more.) How to bridge the gap if at all?
Thanks
Graham
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Dia dhuit Graham
I'm not an expert by any means, just someone with a bit of experience.
If I were you I'd contact the Coventry F.H.S. I'm sure they'll be able to give you a few pointers on finding Irish Immigrants to their City, circa 1820.
http://www.covfhs.org/
In fact, since the 1620's, 'Wolverhamton' had had a sizeable Catholic Poluation, so you may find the following link interesting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/england/black_country/article_6.shtml
;D ;D ;D
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Hi Mobo
Many thanks for the good advice. I've been pretty fortunate in the fact that my Irish ancestors moved to Glasgow in about 1892 and 'Scotlands People' been the wonderful site that it is ;D has helped me enormously. I was lucky enough to find two McIlduff familys living next to each other and from there has found that they were brothers.
I also obtained my great grandparents marriage certificate, they married in 1885 in the Catholic church in Portadown. As far as I know, there are no birth, marriage, death registrations before 1864 ? Is this correct. I've tried to find my g grandfathers birth (he was 20 on his marriage cert) but no joy. I've also (through SP) been able to find the names of his parents. I've tried writing to the Roman Catholic church in Portadown asking for advice but have received no reply. I'm unsure what to do next, any advice ???
Thanks again
Fiona
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:D :D
Again Floss, Northern Ireland is outside my experience, so I suggest you contact the Portadown Family History Society. I'm sure they'll be able to help you with your searches.
http://www.geocities.com/portadownfhs/
Happy hunting !!
New Link: http://portadownfhs.angelfire.com/
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hello Mobo:
Matthew Snoddy was born in Larne, Antrim born Jan. 12 1821. I have a copy of his marriage record, he married June 27 1846 in Ottawa. Ont. But he died in 1900 too bad he did not live till 1901 as the Canadian 1901 census has the year people emigrated.
James McSheffery was born 14 Oct. 1827 in Donegal. We think he is from the Inishowen area. Don't know what his father's first name is but know that his mother's name is Maria as we have found on a passenger list for the USA that shows Maria and some of her children arriving there. James is the only one that came to Canada but in 1870 his brother John arrives in Quebec from the states. I know that James arrived in Canada in 1851 as he is on the 1901 census and states he arrived here in 1851.
I have lots of information on these two fellows in Canada but I have to start looking for them in Ireland now. Must admit I have been putting it off but in May went to a seminar about Irish reseach the two speakers were from Ireland and gave lots of information and tips.
Anne
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:D :D
Anne, as you have enough information on Matthew Snoddy you should contact County Antrim Heritage Centre on
http://www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/county/antrim.html
who I'm sure will be able to help
and the same goes for James McSheffrey - you should try Inishown Genealogy first,
http://www.loughfoyleferry.com/genealogy.htm
and if you don't get anywhere, google for the Donegal Heritage Centre, and try that.
;D ;D ;D
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:) :) :)
'Donkey Market', Louth, Drogheda
:) :) :)
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Mobo:
Thank you very much for the website address. I will contact both centers.
Anne
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Thanks, Mobo,
Yes, I WAS quite aware that I could send things over the internet, thank you, but to whom was my problem - having been thoroughly briefed with caveat emptor stories about Irish researchers.
But the two websites you have sent me are very helpful. I think that I need a researcher, so will proceed with caution to identify one.
Thanks,
MarieC
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:) :) :)
Absit invidia Marie !!
Don't forget, "He who Dares, Wins" ;D ;D ;D
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You've got me there, Mobo! My schoolgirl Latin just gave up on that one! :) :)
Marie
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;D ;D ;D
No offence intended
;D ;D ;D
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For those iterested in seeing what your forebear's put up with to better themselve's Google,'manchester irish+dr kay'.
Not nice,but then again,what else was there?
Goggy
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hi all
mine are from tempo,fermanagh in the 1920's but before that i have
dixons in rattoran,tempo and hamiltons in tattanellan,fivemile town,in co tyrone
not doing to good with it as theres not too much avalible but i have managed to find both my g grandparents births and parents names from belfast gro as i wrote to them with what i know and they gave me some info it's not a bad idea if you dont really know how to start but thats how far i have got
kim
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I let out a huge groan when I get census material that says born in Ireland. I keep giving it up, then going back for a quick tinker. It does give me an excuse to go and have a jolly in Ireland though. My friend made me laugh as she went to Ireland to discover her family history but came back with absolutley nothing, but what made me laugh was that there are only four houses in the village where her ancestors lived, how could she not find something? I have recently tried to order a marriage cert from the PRONI but I had to have the district that they were married in. Is there no census material for Ireland or was it all destroyed?
??? Regards - Fiona
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:D :D :D
Not all material was destroyed wheeldon, and as it's Irish Records you're specifically interested in, I suggest you post your query on the Ireland Board, I'm sure somebody there will oblige with the details.
Cheers
;D ;D ;D
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Thanks Mobo, I will do, I feel quite mentally stable at the moment to tackle my Irish origins.
Cheers
Fiona
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;D ;D ;D
In 1851, a Census of the Townlands & Towns of Ireland was taken, which showed.....
the Townland & Town,
the Barony,
the Parish,
and the Poor Law Union
of All the Counties in Ireland
I happen to have a copy of this book, so if anyone needs info on their own 'County' I'll look it up for them with pleasure.
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Hi, does anyone have the 1841 census I am looking for Michael Doyle County Sligo and Charles Maguire Tipperary. Thanks. Tess
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Have you tried the IRELAND Board Tess ?
This topic is for people seeking info on their Irish Ancestors who emigrated to Britain.
;D ;D
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Hi Mobo, yes i have tried the irish board, and yes my relatives came to England from Ireland. Just thought I would try Irish Ancestry and see if I was lucky there. Thanks Tess ::) ::) ::)
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Sorry Thindle - I mis-read your post as I thought you were referring to an 1841 Census (In Ireland).
Because you didn't state that the Doyles were from Sligo and the McGuires from Tipperary in your original post, the wires have got crossed unfortunately.
If I read you correctly now then, it would seem that you want to find them on the 1841 British Census. If this is the case, you'll need to post Look-Up requests for the 1841 Census on both the LIVERPOOL and HULL Boards.
Having said that, I'm a little confused - as you aready know the Counties of these people, what is it you hope to find on such an early British Census, especially the 1841 with it's lack of detail ?
;D ;D
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::) Sorry Mobo my mistake I am getting you confused. I will start again.The Doyles I have traced in England up to the present time. Michael and Emily Doyle ( Hurley ) Arrived in Liverpool in the 1840s from Ireland a son was born in 1848 in Liverpool.So they must have come before 1848. It is in IRELAND that I want to trace them now. Sligo
Charles and Ann Maguire ( Kelly ) were in Hull England in 1849 when their daughter Agnes was born. Since her birth there is no trace of her and her mother and father. Until the 1881 census in England when I found Agnes again.
I would like to find them in Ireland too. Tipperary... Thanks
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;D ;D
Right ...... now we're getting somewhere.
What you should do is get in touch with the Sligo Heritage Centre who are on the net. They should be able to help with your Doyles.
http://www.sligoroots.com/
and.....
The Tipperary Heritage centre, for help with your McGuires, at the following address
Bru Boru Cultural Centre
Rock of Cashel
County Tipperary
Ireland
Tel: + + 353 62 61122
Happy hunting !!
;D ;D
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;D ;D Thanks a million Mobo, I will try both these places Cheers Tess
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Mobo,
I would love to take advantage of your lookup offer, please. I really do not understand all these divisions in Ireland.
My ancestors were in Dublin City, and towards the ends of their lives in Howth. One of their sons, my ggrandfather, for some reason I can't currently fathom, was born in Co Tyrone. If you could look these up for me, I'd be very grateful.
Marie
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;D ;D ;D
Marie,
Howth is thus:-
the Townland & Town is HOWTH
the County is DUBLIN
the Barony is COOLOCK,
the Parish is HOWTH
and the Poor Law Union is DUBLIN NORTH
Unfortunately, as the Index is based on the alphabetical listing of Towns & Townlands, I can't do a search just using a County.
;D ;D
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Mobo,
Thanks for that!
Can you also do Dublin City for me (he was at 2 Holles St and previously at Fitzwilliam Square).
Regrettably, I don't know whereabouts in Co Tyrone ggrandfather was born, so we can't go any further with that one.
Marie
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:D :D :D
Dublin City is
the Townland & Town is ------
the County is --------
the Barony is --------
the Parish is --------
and the Poor Law Union is DUBLIN NORTH & DUBLIN SOUTH
;D ;D ;D
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Ah,
Not much info there. Thanks anyway, Mobo!!! :D
Marie
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:) Mobo
I'm also in the same boat as MarieC..........the divisions have me chasing my tail about Barony and Poor Law Union records.
I would like to take advantage of your kind offer Mobo so could you please look for Peterswell Co. Galway?
Many thanks
Juddee
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Mobo,
Thank you for the pointer to this site.
I'll need to repost the info I posted to the Cumberland site:
My family (3 times) are from Ireland via Cleator Moor.
They arrived between 1845 and 1851 (if the James SLOAN I found in 1851 is mine)
Okay what I have:
James Henry SLOAN's married Margaret McANALLY nee KELLY 10 Nov 1867 Whitehaven.
James Henry's age is 22. Margaret's is 26.
Jame's surname is spelt SLONE. His father is Patrick SLONE born Ireland - deceased at time of James' marriage in 1867. Patrick's occupation is listed as 'labourer'
Margaret's family I find in the 1851 Census....yes all born only Ireland!
I haven't as yet positively found James or his father in the 1851 and 1861 Census.
I have in the 1851 Census for Cleator Moor a possible for James Henry (7) born in Louth but he's listed as a Lodger. There is no Patrick that I could tie to James. There is one other possiblity in that there is at the same address a Margaret Mc PARTIN (42) alms woman also registered as a lodger from Louth.....could she be an aunt?
The third family I'm chasing would be the DUNN family from Preston Quarter............also only found in 1861 census ..........Father. James (b 1807) and 5 children all born only Ireland. Wife Agness NN b 1807 Scotland. 5 Children born Preston Quarter. This family arrived in Cumberland between 1836 and 1843. I don't find them in the 1851 census.
One of the DUNN daughters married a son of SLONE/KELLY. Strong Irish mix.
They where all Church of England
Any advice would be appreciated
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;D ;D ;D
Juddee,
There isn't a Peterswell in Galway, only Petersburgh (or Cappaghnagapple )
the Townland & Town is Petersburgh
the County is Galway
the Barony is Ross
the Parish is Ross
and the Poor Law Union is Oughterard
;D ;D
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Hi Mobo
This is a major problem I've been having for years as on my ancestor's marriage certificate she stated her birthplace was Peterswell Co. Galway...which I naturally took to be a town. It appears that is not the case. On top of that, her death certificate, the information given by one of her children, shows her as born in Limerick :-\ :-\
Sooooooo...back to the drawing board....yet AGAIN ::) ::)
Many thanks for your time and trouble Mobo
Juddee
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;D ;D
Wooahh..... pc ... you can only search for one family at a time I'm afraid, otherwise it gets too complicated
First the SLOANS
You don't make it clear what demonination they were, were you just referring to the DUNNS or were all three families CofE ??
If they were RC, then the church they married in would be the first starting point. The names of witnesses are also very important, as are the names of godparents. However, if they were CofE then that's an area out of my experience I'm afraid.
In the meantime, I need to know the following: Where did they actually live ? What census details do you have ?
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;D ;D ;D
Don't give up Juddee
Try contacting
Galway Family History Society West Ltd.
Research Unit
Venture Centre
Liosbaun Estate
Tuam Road
Galway
Tel. + 353 91 756737
As you need Irish stamps to write a letter, it's easier to 'phone. They might be able to help you as to where this Peterswell actually is.
;D ;D
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;D ;D
Juddee
Have found another site, this time with an email address, which is probably better.
Gort Heritage Centre
Church Street,
Gort,
Co. Galway
Tel: +353 91 630237
gortheritage@extn.galwaycoco.ie
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:) :) Many thanks for the addresses Mobo.
I'll try the Gort Heritage Centre first and if not successful will then
try the Galway Family History Society.
I'm not giving up yet ! ;D ;D
Juddee
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Seeing as I had some-one hear my pleas I thought I'd unload my burden all at one go. I read other messages where the folks have the same brickwall as myself. As soon as you find on the census...'born Ireland' everything seems to come to a halt. So these are my 3 Irish families that are giving me problems. I also thought that perhaps as you said if you look at the whole picture you might find a clue as to where they could've come from.
James Henry SLONE/SLOAN married Margaret KELLY in Whitehaven. I have them in the 1871 census in Cleator Village, 1881, 1891 & 1901 in Church St, Cleator Moor, Cumberland.
Margaret KELLY's family I found in the 1861 and 1851 census for Cleator Moor.
Their (James and Margaret's) children's baptism were sent me on photos but the entries only so can't 100% confirm church. Their children and their children's children were staunch Church of England followers.
As previous message I might have James SLOAN aged 7 in the 1851 census in Church lane, Egremont.
The DUNN family I have in the 1861 Census for Preston Quarter. Cumberland. Their daughter Margaret married James Dixon PHAROAH from Cleator Moor. Their daughter was such a staunch Church of England supporter that she disowned her for marrying a Catholic. I'd safely assume then that her family was CoE.
Well I think I've got all off me chest now.
Would there occupations in any way help?
James SLONE's father Patrick SLONE was a labouer
Margaret Kelly's father Robert KELLY was also a labouer
Margaret Dunn's father James Dunn was a coal miner
Thanks
Lynn
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Hi
I'm also stuck with my Irish ancestry, but I'd like to know what the next step is for me, I am lucky enough to know what part of Ireland two of my ancestors were from. I can't make any trips to Ireland but I'd love to sometime in the distant future.
Can anyone advise me more about these people? The rest of my family just say 'Ireland'. :(
James O'BRIEN, bn c1877 Killkenny Ireland
1901 census, Newcastle, lodger, 25, Shipyard laborer
1906, Married Ellen McVain, St Anthony's Church Newcastle (Catholic), platters helper, he aged 29, farther also named James O'Brien a laborer.
My Grant told me that James came to England but two brothers went to USA and to Australia.
Sarah SAUNDERS, bn c1866 Waterford Ireland
1891 census, visitor in Birmingham with Thomas GRANT and family (her future farther in law), age 24
189, Married Thomas GRANT, Certificate shows the registry office Birmingham, her farther George SAUNDERS deceased, School Master.
After the wedding the couple moved to Newcastle.
I have asked about Sarah before on the Waterford page but I haven't got any further since then!
Thank you
Angelfish
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I noticed the name Dunn in your messages. I am related to a Harriet Dunn born abt 1825 in Ireland and married an Anthony Kelly in Keighley, West Yorkshire on 16 October 1848. Harriet's father was Anthony and her mother was Bridgette.
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pc
As I said previously if your 'Irish' were CofE, I can't advise you about the route to take via church records. perhaps you should 'splash out' and get copies of some of the certificates.
The only thing I can suggest is that you contact the Cumbria Family History Society who will probably be able to help you with Irish Immigration to Cumberland. I would suspect your Irish may have come from Northern Ireland.
One last point, it's relatives and neighbours who usually give clues of peoples origins, not the people they married !
http://www.cumbriafhs.com/
That's all I can suggest I'm afraid.
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Sorry Evergreen,
My Dunn(e)s came from Mayo and settled in Lancashire
as you can see from my website (see profile below)
Cheers
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Hi Angelfish
It's great that you have the County of birth in both cases, which means you're well on your way!! .
In the first instance you should contact
Kelkenny Ancestry
Rothe House
16 Parliament Street
Kilkenny City
Kilkenny
Ireland
Tel: + 353 (0) 56 22893
They do a full commissioned research service
and.....
Waterford Heritage Ltd
Jenkin's Lane
Waterford
Ireland
Tel: +353 (0) 51-876123
They also do a full commissioned research service
Unfortunately they are not on the net, which means you'll have to 'phone (writing letters requires Irish Stamps). Anyway, I'm sure you'll get plenty of help.
Happy hunting !!
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A few pointers to help you trace your 'Irish'
Knowing your ancestor was born in ‘Ireland’ is not enough, even if you know who he married and who is children were, it doesn't help you find your Irish roots.
1.Knowing the religious demonination is essential, because if Roman Catholic, vital clues can be found in the Parish Registers. They will show the names of marriage witnesses and baptismal godparents, and in some instances the County of origin. For example, the register of St. Vincent de Paul in Liverpool on 4 June 1862, records the marriage of Joseph Edward Huges of Sligo to Sarah Quin of 13 Moore Place, London Road.
If he was non-catholic, it's still worth looking at the Parish Records, but I personally have no knowledge of these.
2. Scrutinising all Census Returns is also vital, as most Irish neighbours tended to come from the same place.
3. Searching for gravestone inscriptions can also provide information, but as most immigrants were of the poorer classes, it's probably not an option.
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Hi Ryan !
You didn't say how you were progressing with your
BURKEs, O’CALLAGHAN's, CONLEYs, MUNSONs & DACEYs ??
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Whoops it posted twice
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And again - three times !!
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Happens to all the Best people.
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I live in outback Australia. Most of the info I have I had to 'splash out' and buy.
If I'd been around in 1851 I might have been able to tell you who my rellies friends where.
When you pointed me to this site I thought you were offering help.
Thanks for nothing!
Lynn
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Hi Mobo
Thank you for your reply! :)
Can I ask you please, are Kelkenny Ancestry and Waterford Heritage Ltd private companies who only undertake commissioned research, or are they some kind of heritage groups who may be able to help me trace my ancestors?
Would you recommend them or did you just trace the companies for me?
Thanks again, I appreciate your reply, even if you can't give me all the answers ;)
Angelfish
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Lynne
I live in a small country town in NSW where I have no access to any records at all without travelling to Sydney and staying overnight or searching through internet sites and have also splashed out to buy certificates etc.
Any information I have found has been with the help of wonderful people like Mobo who is a mine of information on Ireland and willing to help us novices that I am gradually chipping away at my MAJOR brickwall after almost 20 years of searching. I may be lucky in that my rels were RC so once I find the town I'll be up and running. ;D ;D A matter of sticking at it and perservering I'm afraid. Personally I think the web site Mobo posted is a good starting point.
Good luck with your search :)
Juddee
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Juddee
I'm not going to get into an argument here. Great if Mobo's advice to you was helpful.............her advice to me I feel was sarcastic and uncalled for.
So be it.
Lynn
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Hi Angelfish !
I know nothing of the business structure of Heritage Centres in Ireland, I only know they were set up by the Irish Government to help people with their family research.
The only one I can personally recommend is Mayo, the rest are offered as links or points of contact.
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Hi Mobo
Edward Duffy, born about 1893 & family were born in Phibsborough, Dublin. Please can you tell me the townland, parish etc.
I am stuck around 1900 and have posted on the Dublin board but got no further. They were catholic. Any ideas what to do next
Thanks
Jane?
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Sorry Jane,
Phibsborough itself does not appear to be a Town, (even though I know it to be in Dublin).
If you contact Fingal Genealogy, they should be able to tell you which Town it comes under. Likewise, they should be able to advise on where to search next.
Fingal Genealogy
Swords Historical Society Co Ltd
Carnegie Library
North Street
Swords
Co Dublin
Ireland
Tel: + + 353 1 8400080
swordsheritage@eircom.net
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Mobo
Please can I ask two general questions?
1. Why do you say you need irish stamps to send letters? I went to Ireland on holiday and sent postcards back to Britain with Irish stamps on. I presume if I was writing from here I would send them with British stamps on. Are you talking about sending a stamp addressed envelope with your enquiry so that you can have a reply?
2. Perhaps you could explain how the system works in Ireland. Most of us are only familiar with the British system. We know that in Britain and presumably also Northern Ireland the records are held in county archive offices and also nationally in London in various buildings, the GRO and the PRO.
What is the situation in Eire? I will call it that to distinguish it from Northern Ireland which I am presuming is the same as England, unless you say otherwise.
Regards and thanks
Louise
PS My ancestors were married in 1850 in St Nicholas Without in Dublin, which has since been knocked down. I have searched in lots of textbooks and on the internet to find out whether it was catholic or protestant, to no avail.
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St Nicholas Without (Dublin) is an RC parish per list hhtp://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/genie/index.cfm?UserID= (ireland.com Irish Times) lists all RC parishes in Dublin. These for St Nicholas Without are held at the National Library of Ireland
I looked at this list recently and found it most helpful
Graham
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Sorry Louise,
I should have made myself more clear. Irish stamps are, of course, for the S.A.E.'s, essential if you are to receive a reply.
In answer to your other query:-
Compulsory civil registration of non-Roman Catholic marriages began on April 1st, 1845, then the registration of all births, deaths and marriages commenced on January 1st, 1864.
The General Register Office (GRO), which was located in Dublin, but is now in Roscommon, holds copies of all civil records for the whole of Ireland, from the commencement of registration, up to and including the year 1921.
The General Register Office
Government Offices
Convent Road
Roscommon
Tel: 090 6632900
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Evicted !!
The fate of many Irish Peasants when their landlord wanted the land. Irrespective of whether they paid the rent or not. Anyone offering them shelter would have their rents increased, resulting in their own eviction.
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Thanks Mobo, very helpful, I will get on to them straight away about my great great grandparents wedding in Athlone.
Regards
Louise
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Glad to have been of help Jane.
You don't say whether you contacted Fingal Genealogy or not ?
:) :)
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Hi Mobo
I am off work next week so I will do it then. I'm racing to hit a deadline by Friday before I finish.
Jane
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I am related to a Harriet Dunn born abt 1825 in Ireland and married an Anthony Kelly in Keighley, West Yorkshire on 16 October 1848. Harriet's father was Anthony and her mother was Bridgette.
Hi Evergreen,
Had a look on the IGI for these people, but both the marriage of Anthony & Bridget and the births of their children, all just say 'Ireland', and from a quick glance at the Census I didn't see a county for any of them, (but it was only a quick glance mind you).
Also, you seem to have the marriage cert. of Harriet & Anthony Kelly so will know the church they married in. If so, write to the parish priest there and he should let you have a copy from his register. This is sometimes where extra information can be found. A small donation to the church and an S.A.E is usual.
Also, try getting in touch with Keighley Family History Society. I'm sure they'll be able to help regarding Irish immigrants.
http://www.keighleyfamilyhistory.org.uk/
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Hi Mobo
All I have is Maria or Dinah Biddle nee McDermott born c1840 in Dublin Ireland.
This info is taken from the 1871 Census when she is recorded living with her son Olive? (11) & daughter (Annie Biddell (sic) - 5 - my Gx2 Grandmother) in Birkenhead, Cheshire. To confuse matters, Annie's birth certificate records her as Dinah Biddle nee McDermott
I can find no trace of a marriage in England (suspect she wasn't married) and no trace of Dinah/Maria in Cheshire in 1851 or 1861.
Any advice/suggestion as to what resources I should check to see if I can find out her parentage - when she (they) moved from Dublin to Cheshire?
Many thanks :)
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Hi Nigel
I'm assuming that Annie's birth cert. didn't show a father ? However, you could always look for the other child's birth if you really want to find out who Mr Biddle was, it may be on there.
There certainly wasn't an Olive? Biddell/Biddle b. 1859-1861
only a Maria Biddle in Upton
1859 Sept Quarter 6c 301
and a Richard Biddle in Upton
1860 March Quarter 6c 371
As for Maria/Dinah McDermott, you are very lucky in that you have the County of Birth, so initially, you could try Fingal Genealogy, they'll probably be able to help
Fingal Genealogy
Swords Historical Society Co Ltd
Carnegie Library
North Street
Swords
Co Dublin
Ireland
Tel: + + 353 1 8400080
Email: swordsheritage@eircom.net
:D :D :D
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Many thanks for that. ;D
Olive always struck me as a wierd name ??? I wondered if it may have been Oliver but I'll give the two births that you found a shot.
The father is named as John Biddle on Annie's birth certificate (Labourer Sugar Refinery) but by the time she gets married in 1884, he's "morphed" into a Photographer called Michael Biddle! Unfortunately, Maria is a widow by 1871 so I have no idea where this elusive Biddle father came from.
Thanks once again!
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The General Register Office (GRO), which was located in Dublin, but is now in Roscommon,
Having just returned from Ireland I can confirm that the GRO hasn't yet moved, or maybe it is in both places, but still there in Lombard Street, Dublin.
To do a five year search of a BMD index is a cost of 1 Euro 90 cents, you are provided with the huge index books to do the search yourself and when you find the entry you pay a further 1 Euro 90 cents which gets you the photocopy of the entry about half an hour later. Good value compared with England's £7 per certificate and waiting a few days for it.
Mary
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Thanks for the info about the GRO Mary, it was supposed to have moved 'lock stock & barrel' by April this year, perhaps the change over has taken longer than expected !!
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I'm glad it didn't as I might not have got my great grandparents marriage quite so easily. I only spent an hour in their last week, got the copy which gave me enough information to get back a further generation during the time I was in Ireland.
Genealogists are very helpful people the whole world over, Ireland included. I got lost .... as I do, ended up in the National Archives thinking that I might get something useful, but a friendly lady took me under her wing, and took me to the right Lombard Street (I had been looking at Lombard Street West quite some distance away from the proper place), taught me about the parking meters and "showed me the ropes".
Eileen, if you are reading this, many thanks and I had a successful and enjoyable week.
Mary
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Some of my Irish ancestors arrived in Manchester prior to 1818.
Commencing 1818 their children were baptized in the RC Church in Manchester, which I found by using a researcher. From various marriage certificates it appears that their father's were all born in "Ireland"
I assume that they must have arrived early in the century. Does anyone know if there was a catastrophic reason for the Irish leaving their country prior to the potato famine, and also the general areas they could have originated from? My names occur throughout Ireland, but I thought perhaps Dublin might be a good place to start.
Without birth references, census, LDS, only their names to go, on I am interested in how other people have started their research, as to me it is just one big brick wall.
Pat
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Hi,
maybe it's in two places at the moment ?
Their website says the location is Roscommon
http://www.groireland.ie/location.htm
Also on the downloadable application forms (on their above site) for the BMD certificates, the postal address to where you send it to is also Roscommon.
I'm in the process of applying for some certificates ( my grandparents); could anyone tell me if I have a choice of either of the GRO's ( Belfast and Roscommon) for my lot. My grandparents were born before 1921 in what is known as N.Ireland today, but of course before 1921 when they were born it was "Ireland".
I know that both GRO's state on their websites that they hold ( but hold and issuing are two different things to my mind if you know what I mean) copies up to 1921 for the whole of Ireland, but will the Roscommon issue me a certified certificate for my grandparents who were born in Ballymoney and Broughshane before 1921, or will they return the application form and say apply to Belfast?
I've just forked out 10 pounds for my mum's with Belfast GRO online ( well 15 pounds I wanted two, for official purposes) - she was born after 1921, so no problem there. I didn't have a dilemma which office to apply to of course :).
But, if I can get my grandparents certs from Roscommon it works out cheaper than 10 pounds from Belfast
6.95 euro ( Roscommon GRO for a full birth cert) is only around $10.52 Australian
10 pounds ( full birth cert from Belfast) is around $22.62 Au
As you can see ,this is a big difference between the costs from the two GRO's. It's more than double the cost for me from Belfast GRO when converted into Au dollars, so you can see why I'm asking this question. I'd rather apply to Roscommon if I can for my N.Ireland grandparents (pre 1921) certs
Anyone know if I can apply to Roscommon instead of Belfast for the full certified birth certs of my "northern" grandparents?
Thanks :)
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Hi there,
What would be an acceptable amount for a donation to a parish when requesting information?
Thanks,
Karen
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I'm glad it didn't as I might not have got my great grandparents marriage quite so easily. I only spent an hour in their last week, got the copy which gave me enough information to get back a further generation during the time I was in Ireland.
Genealogists are very helpful people the whole world over, Ireland included. I got lost .... as I do, ended up in the National Archives thinking that I might get something useful, but a friendly lady took me under her wing, and took me to the right Lombard Street (I had been looking at Lombard Street West quite some distance away from the proper place), taught me about the parking meters and "showed me the ropes".
Eileen, if you are reading this, many thanks and I had a successful and enjoyable week.
Mary
Thanks for sharing your experiences of research in Ireland Mary, I too have always found the people there very helpful and friendly.
:D :D :D :D
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Some of my Irish ancestors arrived in Manchester prior to 1818.
Commencing 1818 their children were baptized in the RC Church in Manchester, which I found by using a researcher. From various marriage certificates it appears that their father's were all born in "Ireland"
I assume that they must have arrived early in the century. Does anyone know if there was a catastrophic reason for the Irish leaving their country prior to the potato famine, and also the general areas they could have originated from? My names occur throughout Ireland, but I thought perhaps Dublin might be a good place to start.
Without birth references, census, LDS, only their names to go, on I am interested in how other people have started their research, as to me it is just one big brick wall. Pat
Pat, you don't say where you Irish lived in 'Manchester' and which 'RC Church' they used, but as I understand it, you do have some info, found by a researcher.
If you didn't know already, Manchester has always had a huge Irish Population, and because of this, the Manchester & Lancs Family History Society have their own separate 'Irish Ancestry' Group - a 'mine of information' on the Irish in Manchester. I'm sure they'll be able to help.
http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/
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I'm in the process of applying for some certificates ( my grandparents); could anyone tell me if I have a choice of either of the GRO's ( Belfast and Roscommon) for my lot. My grandparents were born before 1921 in what is known as N.Ireland today, but of course before 1921 when they were born it was "Ireland".
I know that both GRO's state on their websites that they hold ( but hold and issuing are two different things to my mind if you know what I mean) copies up to 1921 for the whole of Ireland, but will the Roscommon issue me a certified certificate for my grandparents who were born in Ballymoney and Broughshane before 1921, or will they return the application form and say apply to Belfast?
Anyone know if I can apply to Roscommon instead of Belfast for the full certified birth certs of my "northern" grandparents?
Not too sure about this particular situation Cell, the only thing I can suggest is that you either post this query on the Ireland Board or get in touch with Roscommon or Belfast GRO's.
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What would be an acceptable amount for a donation to a parish when requesting information? Thanks,Karen
Hi Karen,
This is purely up to the individual, but I usually send a cheque for £5.00, after all, the priest is normally a very busy man and does 'look-ups' as a favour. Anyway it's up to you.
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The Old Age Pension Act was introduced in Ireland in 1908, which meant that people over a certain age were guaranteed a pension from the state. However, because the compulsory registration of births had only begun in 1864, claimants of the pension were unable to provide a birth certificate to prove their age. Consequently, in order to establish a person's age, a search of the 1841 and 1851 census was necessary.
The claimant of the pension would give the name of the Townland and Parish where he/she was born or resided in at the time of the 1841/51 census, a search would be made of that townland’s census returns and the result recorded. In some cases the family would not be found and so only the result “No trace” was entered. However, on many occasions the search was successful. In these cases the additional information could state only the age of applicant at the time of the census, but, in many records the names and ages of every person living there is supplied.
Up until now, these Irish Pension Records were only to be found on microfilm, and were not indexed and very difficult to read.
Now pensear.org have produced a database of the 286 surnnames, which can be accessed freely, and payment is only needed for looking in the record books themselves.
www.Pensear.org
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Hi Mobo
Thanks very much for the information. Will try that.
Evergreen
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Patrick Street, Cork City
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Dear Mobo
Thanks for that. All my Irish ancestors are Manchester, that is inner city area. One church was St Mary Mulberry street, but there is also St Chad.
I did think of trying to join the Irish Society but did not know how to go about it. So I will have a look at the site you have kindly told me about.
Love the photos, please do not ever delete them, as I feel Cork and Dublin may be where my roots originate from!
It is really sad to see so many people, myself among them, on Rootschat having no base to start searching from. I know for example that the Irish in Manchester often did group together in little communities and areas where they were either related, or knew each other, but it is trying to find out from whence they came which is the problem.
I think I am related to most of the Irish in Manchester if one goes by names, eg Riley, Toole, Lynch, Mundy, Rafferty, McCormick and many others who are not my direct ancestors!
We are so fortunate in the UK that one can research a family name, almost from knowing nothing at all, and from afar it has been relatively simple, but the Irish, well that is so hard.
Thanks again Mobo you are wonderful.
Pat
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Glad to be able to help Pat. From the sound of it your Irish settled in the Deansgate area, (or little Ireland as it was then known).
As I said, the Manchester & Lancs FHS is the place to start as they have done much research on it and, in fact, do guided tours for people whose ancestors lived there. I'm sure they'll be able to help you one way or another.
Another link you may find interesting is
http://www.iwhc.com/index.htm
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Hi Pat,
You may be interested to know that
ST MARY'S, on Mulberry Street, is one of Manchester's most famous buildings. Tucked away at the back of Brasennose Street, it's always been known as the "Hidden Gem" (a phrase first used by the Bishop of Salford, Herbert Vaughan, in the late 19th century).
It was built in 1794, and was the first Catholic church to be erected in any English city after the Reformation and it's history ran parallel with the rise of Manchester from a small village in the 18th century to it's growth as one of the largest cities in England. Founded during the industrialisation of Manchester it met the needs of the poor, many of whom arrived from Ireland.
By the early 19th century the area, once open meadowland, was soon surrounded by mean streets, disease and unspeakable living conditions, and although it's now covered by office blocks, smart shops and coffee bars, it's still known as 'Angel Meadow'.
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Dear All
I thought I would add to this thread some information I came across quite innocently whilst attending the Family History exhibition in York a short time ago.
I was in conversation with a very knowledgeable chap from the Ulster Historical Foundation and he advised me that as far as he was aware the B,M & D indexes from 1864 to 1921 were to be digitised and put on the internet later this year. Apparently the Irish GRO have realised the huge cash raising potential of such an undertaking !
Perhaps someone else can confirm this.
I would also add that my wife and myself went to Dublin earlier this year and can confirm that the staff at GRO Lombard Street and also at the National Library, Genealogical research department are excellent. They went over and beyond the call of duty helping us out.
Regards
David
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Hi David,
I have also heard this story, but whether it will happen this year or not is anybody's guess.
Lets keep our fingers crossed.
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A fishmarket in County Galway
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Dear Mobo
Thanks so much for the picture of The Hidden Gem. Can I use it? You are so right it was Deansgate.
I knew something about the meadows etc in Manchester.
I do not think that it really became a slum until after the advent of the cotton mills and workers from all over Lancashire, Yorkshire and, of course, Ireland crowded in to live in inadequate houses and cellars.
I enjoyed the sites you have recommended, thank you again.
Pat
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Yes Pat,
Of course you can use the image. And yes, this part of Manchester was very 'well to do' before the advent of the Industrial Revolution. In fact, an ancestor of mine is recorded as living there in the Palatine Notebook of Manchester of 1640 -
"William Williamson, who late in Autumn removed to a house he had built in Newton, later moved to the Warden’s house on Deansgate………..a self-styled gentleman by 1674, he died in 1689"
And this is how the area looked then
Christ Church (later to become Manchester Cathedral) is visible to the left, and the road to the right of this is Deansgate. Over the River Irwell lies Sargeant Street, Salford (later to become Chapel Street), on which stands Sacred Trinity Church.
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Sorry, I am digressing - let's get back to the subject of Irish Ancestry.
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Dear Mobo,
Thank you so much for the picture. Also, for showing us what Manchester/Salford looked like in 1660. I had no idea the open spaces were quite as much as that. So, two hundred years later the landscape was so devastatingly altered to the lines of streets, boarding houses and public houses we are familiar with.
The Commonwealth Games and a lovely calendar my niece sent me, of the inner city has to some extent given me some insight to the improvements that are taking place. The buildings now look a lot cleaner, and architecturally wonderful, without the industrial smog too.
Thank you again,
Pat
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Sorry Louise,
I should have made myself more clear. Irish stamps are, of course, for the S.A.E.'s, essential if you are to receive a reply.
In answer to your other query:-
Compulsory civil registration of non-Roman Catholic marriages began on April 1st, 1845, then the registration of all births, deaths and marriages commenced on January 1st, 1864.
The General Register Office (GRO), which was located in Dublin, but is now in Roscommon, holds copies of all civil records for the whole of Ireland, from the commencement of registration, up to and including the year 1921.
The General Register Office
Government Offices
Convent Road
Roscommon
Tel: 090 6632900
;D ;D ;D
http://www.groireland.ie/research.htm.
hi, i have just copied this link from the joyce house website ,although there is a mention of registration office moving to roscommon ,joyce house is still there and according to the website still open for research.hope this helps anyone who has also heard that it is closed . as it is difficult enough for researchers to get to dublin (still our capital city i hope) without having to then travel to roscommon,although there is a website for the roscommon records i've forgotten the addy'.
regards anne ::)
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i too am having difficulty finding my irish roots all i know is my gran katherine o neil was born in limerick southern ireland i dont know when she came to scotland but she married my grandad matthew mc shane on 12th july 1907 in st. johns rc chapel in barrhead my dad john was born on 3rd oct. 1907 you will see my gran was pregnant before she married which then wasnt good especialy being irish catholic maybe thats why she left ireland i dont know if my grandad came from ireland all i have been able to trace is their marriage lines i got the info. from my dads bithlines my grans parents were william o neil he is down as deceased on my grandparents marriage lines and her mum was mary o neil ms scullion my grandads parents were john mc shane he was also deceased when they married and his mum was called mary mc shane ms cavnah i am not sure if they were all from ireland but going by their names they proberly were as they are all irish catholic names i never knew my grandparents on my dads side as they both died in 1958 when i was 3yrs old my dad never spoke about his parents and i didnt ask as he was a very private person i have tried to get birthlines here in glasgow for them but there are no record for them i would be grateful if their is someone out there could give me some info. on what to do . yours gratefuly ellen :-[
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i too am having difficulty finding my irish roots all i know is my gran katherine o neil was born in limerick southern ireland i dont know when she came to scotland but she married my grandad matthew mc shane on 12th july 1907 in st. johns rc chapel in barrhead my dad john was born on 3rd oct. 1907 you will see my gran was pregnant before she married which then wasnt good especialy being irish catholic maybe thats why she left ireland i dont know if my grandad came from ireland all i have been able to trace is their marriage lines i got the info. from my dads bithlines my grans parents were william o neil he is down as deceased on my grandparents marriage lines and her mum was mary o neil ms scullion my grandads parents were john mc shane he was also deceased when they married and his mum was called mary mc shane ms cavnah i am not sure if they were all from ireland but going by their names they proberly were as they are all irish catholic names i never knew my grandparents on my dads side as they both died in 1958 when i was 3yrs old my dad never spoke about his parents and i didnt ask as he was a very private person i have tried to get birthlines here in glasgow for them but there are no record for them i would be grateful if their is someone out there could give me some info. on what to do . yours gratefuly ellen :-[
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sorry printed twice just started sorry everyone ellen
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Having successfully done the maternal side of my family to the early 1700's (all from Britain), the paternal side has proved very frustrating and difficult.
My gt. grandparents (Patrick b. 1826 and Rose Harvey (nee McNally) b. 1831 in County Armagh and went to England 1861/1862. They were Catholic. Their first 4 children were born in County Armagh and the rest were born in Leigh, Lancashire. Needless to say no problems until I have to look in Ireland.
I go into Rootschat regularly and have tried every website that readers post but so far have had no luck. I am on the point of giving up. As I live in Canada I can't just pop over to Ireland but if anyone out there could help I would really appreciate it.
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Ellen
Unfortunately, the Limerick Heritage Centre, (which would have been your first starting point) is temporarily closed, due to lack of funding. But they say they hope to open again in the future
Limerick Ancestry
The Granary
Michael St
Limerick City
Ireland
In the meantime, I suggest you post your query on the Limerick Board and I'm sure someone there will help you find your 'Irish'.
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:D :D
Hi Calgarian
Knowing the County of origin and religion is half the battle, so if I were you, I'd contact the Armagh Heritage Centre who I'm sure will be able to help.
County Armagh Genealogy - Armagh Ancestry
38A English Street
Armagh
Co Armagh
Northern Ireland
BT61 7BA
Tel: + + 44 2837 521802
ancestry [at] armagh.gov.uk
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Dear Ellen
I think you are luckier than most in that you actually do know the area your folk came from.
Have you thought of researching your family back from your grandparents in Scotland. Census or parish records etc to see how far you can go back in Scotland on both sides you can trace them, this might give you some idea of the dates you would be looking at when they arrived from Ireland, and the estimated year they were born. For example, you cannot assume unless you know for sure that your family were born in Ireland because they have Irish names.
I cannot help you with your search in Ireland, but I can tell you that is surprising how earlier in the 17th century some of these hard working people arrived. I just put, for example, John McShane at random on LDS, and I am not saying this is yours as this is a common name, as is O'Neil:
JOHN MCSHANE
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY MULVANY Family
Marriage: 11 OCT 1875 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
You say you are new and I think you have made a good start by having certificates, so one other aid you do is by entering them, and of course you, sequentially with dates, on a spreadsheet or wordprocessing document and see how you go on and where the gaps are. Dates of birth, place of birth, names, where married, to whom, place of marriage etc. That is how I started. and I researched mine to when they were born in Ireland, and then came to a thudding stop!
I do wish you the very best of luck with your family history,
Pat
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Thanks Mobo
I e-mailed Armagh Ancestry a few months ago but did not get any reply.
I will give it another try.
Good luck to everyone having the same problem.
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Thanks Mobo
I e-mailed Armagh Ancestry a few months ago but did not get any reply.
That's bad Calgarian, I should certainly e-mail them again if I were you, in the meantime, you could try posting a request for help on the 'Ireland' Board .
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Thanks Mobo
I e-mailed Armagh Ancestry a few months ago but did not get any reply.
That's bad Calgarian, I should certainly e-mail them again if I were you, in the meantime, you could try posting a request for help on the 'Ireland' Board .
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I have asked for help on every board I can find without success. I have just e-mailed Armagh Ancestry again. (fingers crossed).
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Calgarian
Just found on the IGI
Patrick HARVEY
born 22 July 1865
Newry, Co. Armagh
Mother: Rose HARVEY
Could he be one of yours ? Did they definitely arrive in England 1861/62 ?
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Calgarian
Just found on the IGI
Patrick HARVEY
born 22 July 1865
Newry, Co. Armagh
Mother: Rose HARVEY
Could he be one of yours ? Did they definitely arrive in England 1861/62 ?
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Is it coincidence?
Patrick and Rose Harvey had a son Patrick born 1859 in Co. Armagh.
Their 5th child Peter was born in 1861 in Co. Armagh but their 6th child Bernard was born in 1864 in Leigh, Lancs. All this according to the 1871 England Census. So they must have moved from Ireland to England 1861 - 1864.
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Castlebar - County Mayo
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mobo thankyou i have posted a querie on the limerick board and got a reply, i am ging to dublin in nov. with my daughter so i will visit the gro there as gro here in scotland said thats were i will get my granparents papers thankyou. ellen
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Some of my Irish ancestors arrived in Manchester prior to 1818.
Commencing 1818 their children were baptized in the RC Church in Manchester, which I found by using a researcher. From various marriage certificates it appears that their father's were all born in "Ireland"
I assume that they must have arrived early in the century. Does anyone know if there was a catastrophic reason for the Irish leaving their country prior to the potato famine, and also the general areas they could have originated from? My names occur throughout Ireland, but I thought perhaps Dublin might be a good place to start.
Without birth references, census, LDS, only their names to go, on I am interested in how other people have started their research, as to me it is just one big brick wall.
Pat
Hello Pat
Sadly I don't think I can help much because I am in a similar position to yourself. My Irish came from Dublin to Coventry c.1820 and looking at the 1861 Census there are a number of Irish who seem to apopear around the same time. I am beginning to list them to see whether I can make any sense of the mirgration. Like yourself I am curious, but books I have read (e.g. Bloody Foreigners by Robert Winder suggest they have always come over to England and another I read more recently said prior to the setting up of the Irish Free State in the 1920's England & Ireland were virtually one country. Anyone who can tell us more on this fascinating topic, please enlighten!
Graham
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mobo thankyou i have posted a querie on the limerick board and got a reply, i am ging to dublin in nov. with my daughter so i will visit the gro there as gro here in scotland said thats were i will get my granparents papers thankyou. ellen
That's great ellen,
I'm sure you'll enjoy your visit in November - fingers crossed that you get the information you need to find your 'Irish'
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Dear Graham
Thank you for that. I know we are not alone in our quest, but it will not be easy, unless in one of the census's one of our rellys has the forsight to give the place of origin, rather than just Ireland.
To this end I have searched some of the earlier ones, eg. 1851, as well as I could, without result, and to make it worse my ancestors regarded themselves as English! Apparently, and according to my mother, there was a great deal of discrimination by employers to employ people straight off the boat so to speak. So, they tended to hide their Irishness and accents, especially if they were in business on their own account. My Grannie did not have an Irish accent, for example, and her grandfather was born in Ireland.
I like to think that they would be amused at our very serious endeavors to trace their ancestors! but I wish one or two of them would take pity and give us a hint.
I do wish you every success and if I do get a lead on why they came out early in the century, and from where, I will let you know.
Regards
Pat
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Graham,
There are a great many books and articles written on Irish Emigration, but you might find the link below of interest.
http://www.gober.net/victorian/reports/irish2.html
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:D :D :D
And if you're really 'into' learning more about Irish Emigration you could try
http://www.swan.ac.uk/history/teaching/teaching%20resources/An%20Gorta%20Mor/index.html
:D :D :D
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Hi Mobo
When you refer to the IGI, do you mean the IGI on Family Search or something else
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Hi Mobo
When you refer to the IGI, do you mean the IGI on Family Search or something else
Yes Cal,
The IGI on Family Search
;) ;)
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The Potato Market - Drogheda
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I'm stuck and at my wits end. For years I've been unsuccessfully following the O'Hara family line to Ireland, hearing stories from various older family members that they were of aristocracy and kicked out of Ireland and went to Scotland. I can trace the O'Hara line only to a point in Scotland and beyond that I cant find them there... so it leads me to believe they came to Scotland at that point... bur from where in Ireland I have no clue. Specifically I'm looking for Edward O'Hara and Sarah Bashford c. 1800. But from what county, I dont know. I dont even know where to start looking. >:(
The only thing I know for certain is that the family was Roman Catholic.
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Katie
As your 'Irish' moved to Scotland, have you tried posting your query on the Scotland Board ??
You don't actually say what info you have - does 1800 stand for Edward & Sarah's birth dates, or the date of their marriage ?? Did they marry in England or Ireland ?? Are they on any Census Returns? What was their religion ??
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I've been a regular at the Scotland boards for a while, but I cant find any info on the family past a certain point, which is why I'm looking to Ireland. I've checked the Scotland's People website and can only take the O'Hara line so far.
This is the info I have:
Rose Ann O'Hara b. 1886 Glasgow Scotland
dtr of
John Bashford O'Hara (b/d unknown but presumably in Scotland)
married to Agnes Liddell McGowan (married July 6 1869 Glasgow Scotland)
John Bashford O'Hara is the son of
Patrick O'Hara (exact b/d unknown - year 1806, location unknown but presumably in Scotland. Died Dec 27 1886 Glasgow Scotland)
married to Catherine Ann O'Neil (married Aug 1 1841 Glasgow Scotland)
Patrick O'Hara is the son of
Edward O'Hara and Sara Bashford
Birth date, death date, marriage date unknown for both Edward and Sarah.
Scotland's People website has no information on either Edward O'Hara or Sarah Bashford.
I know for certain that as far back as the O'Hara family can trace, the family religion has been Roman Catholic.
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Judging by this, John & Patrick should appear on Scottish Census Returns, no ?? That's where you should look first to see if a County of Birth was shown. Also scrutinise the page, as more often than not, Irish neighbours were usually family or friends from the same place, and sometimes there are clues to be found.
Do you have the marriage certificates for them ? These will show the church they married in. Catholic Parish Registers give a lot more information than normal, sometimes the County of Birth, so if you write to the Parish Priest (enclosing a small donation to the church) he will usually look up the registers for you.
This is explained more fully on the post
A Few Pointers to Help you trace your Irish
on the link below
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,78216.60.html
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I've got the marriage certificate for Patrick's second marriage to Ann McDonald. They were married in Aberdeen Scotland in Ann's home (address listed as Residence is the same as in the colum 'where when and how married') 'according to the forms of the Roman Catholic Church'. Scotlandspeople website does not have a birth record for Patrick O'Hara or his father, Edward O'Hara which is why I believe they came TO Scotland FROM Ireland, but again, from where in Ireland I do not know.
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Mobo
A few weeks ago you gave me some advice on tracking my family in Co. Armagh. You suggested the website of City of Armagh Ancestry.
I had already tried that twice with no reply but decided to try one more time. Guess what? Third time lucky.
I have received an e-mail from them but am not very happy with their reply. This is what they say:
They have a database which only they can access so they want 20 pounds for a search, that is over 40 canadian dollars. I am willing to pay this if I can get the information I am seeking. The problem is that you have to mail a cheque or credit card details to Armagh. I am not comfortable with this, especially as it took three go's to get a reply. I wish they had a form on their website for application of information where you put your credit card info like the other websites. Has anyone else gone through this process and what was the outcome.
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Aw - that's a shame Cal !
All I can say is that normally, if you write to a Heritage Centre in Southern Ireland, they usually reply with a list of people of that surname from the Index to Griffiths's Valuation of Ireland 1848-1864, and a description of the village or town from Lewis's Typographical Dictionary . From which you can decide whether or not it's worth paying for research. In my case, I used a professional and sent him cheques by post, but some Heritage Centres do research themselves and have a credit card facility on their site.
However, as I've said before, Northern Ireland is out of my experience, and perhaps do things differently there. Perhaps you could try googling for a Researcher in Co. Armagh
Just out of interest, here is a sample from Griffiths's Valuation
;) ;) ;)
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Well, I imagined it wasnt going to be easy to find my Irish ancestor which is why I asked for some tips, but oh boy, having just read all the above posts I now feel a little depressed.
Oh well, I ilke a challenge. Wish me luck, and i look forward to reporting back.
Best wishes Linda.
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Don't give up linmey. Yes, it's a shame Mary Ann diied in 1850, meaing she won't be on the 1851 Census, but there are other avenues.
Do you have a copy of her Marriage to John Rennel/ Reynolds in Pertenhall, Beds in 1828? Was she Catholic ? If so, her County of origin, and even her parents' names could appear on it. Also the names of any witnesses are important, as they could be relatives who may also have married in the same church, and who you may be able to trace on the 1861 Census.
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many thanks for that. I certainly wont give up.
I am fairly new to this but extremely enthusiastic (as my poor starving children can confirm). I dont have a copy of the marriage certificate but thats obviously got to be my first task. Many thanks for that and I will let you know how I get on.
Many thanks and best wishes.
Linda.
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Hi Mobo
I have read this thread with interest as I now have an Irish ancestor to trace.
I recently posted the following onto the Limerick board but wondered if there was anything else i need to post, etc to try to trace my relative.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,92257.0.html
As far as I am aware, on the 1901 Sussex census, AMY HILL has noted her place of birth as Limerick, Ireland. She was born c1871/72. Her sister, SARAH HILL was born at Fulwood Barracks, Lancashire in 1874. I do not know if their father was originally from Ireland, or serving out there with the 47th Regiment of Foot (This was his regiment when Sarah was born). Their mother was originally from North America, Canada per the 1901 Kent census.
Can you point me in any direction that may help me find this family, or at least AMY's birth.
I cannot find them on either the 1881/91 UK Census returns.
Thanks for any advice you can provide,
Dinie
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many thanks for that. I certainly wont give up. I dont have a copy of the marriage certificate but thats obviously got to be my first task. Many thanks for that and I will let you know how I get on. Linda
Linda, you won't actually be able to get a copy of a certificate, they weren't issued until after 1837. First, you will have to find the Church she married in, then, write to the Parish Priest asking him to look it up for you. ( A small donation to the church is usual).
Let us know how you get on
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Hi dinie
I would have suggested you contact the Limerick Heritage Centre, but unfortunately, they have ceased functioning due to a lack of government funding.
I really don't know what else to suggest other than you ask someone to search Limerick birth records for you. As you've already posted to the Limerick Board, I'm afraid all you can do is wait until someone answers.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help
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now i'm really depressed. you're all finding difficulty with ancestors that left Ireland as recently as hte mid-1800s. mine left around 1800 .. before the destruction of records .. what chance do i have? we've just come grinding to a complete and total halt!
we don't even know for sure where they lived .. just educated guesses. :-( Co Louth, Down and/or Armagh we think, McLindens, McSevneys & Riddicks to name a few. i don't think htey even knew or were bothered which religion they were, just getting the kids christened in hte nearest recogniseable church. more important things were the order of hte day .. like making sure there was food enough for hungry mouths. they shipped up in Ayrshire, and had a very hard time of it - regarded as 'those undesirable dirty Irish'! a local minister even wrote as much in local publication at the time! poor sods! all they were trying to do was survive and make something of themselves and their cildren. they did too :-)
but just in case someone amongst you has come across them, or, has even successfully researched them back 500 years :-)) here are some names and known [almost] dates:
spellings in all cases very variable and exceptionally original! but i'll use a fairly standard one in htis list:
McLinden - Micheal b.c. 1781 Ireland, possibly in one of the counties listed above
married to Agnes McTeague [or Montegue] b.c.1870 somewhere in Ireland
McLinden children b. John c.1805 [maybe Ireland] ; Rosanna b.1806 & Peter 1807 both in Ayr;
Agnes b.c.1815 & Margaret & Micheal b.c.1821, Mary b.c.1825 these last mentioned having been born in Girvan AYR.
we're pretty sure there were more elder siblings born in Ireland but haven't managed to trace them.
Riddick - William and his wife Martha Lauderdale b. somewhere in Ireland
children William, Mgt, Mary and John [at least] all born in Ireland between 1798 & 1813 whereabouts unknown
McSevney [another name with an extensively variable spelling!]
William McSevney and his 1st wife Adams Ewart both b. Ireland [Wllm possibly Mullaghbrack nr co Armagh]. m.c.1800
2 known children William & Margaret b. co Down or Armagh bet 1801 & 1807. son John was born Maybole AYR 1809
I'd be very surprised if hthese were all hte kids they had!
wife Adams dies and is replaced by no 2, Jeannie Irvine who has a child Frances McSevney b.1811 in Ireland [we think]. m. possibly c.1809/10. we think he might have crossed over ot find a wife or maybe known to the family.
rapid replacement of a newly dead wife wasn;t cold hearted and unfeeling, it was necessary for survival and the care of the children. they just had to get on with it. it was a different world back then!
any help, guidance, glorious illumination or pure genious would be greatfully accepted :-)
le durachd :-)
fionnghal
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Hi fion
By the sound of these surnames, I'd say your Irish probably came from Northern Ireland. Also, because they settled in Scotland, I would suggest you post this query on the Ayrshire Board (if you haven't already).
I'm afraid that's all I can suggest really, as Northern Ieland and Scotland are both outside my own particular experience.
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thanks, I'll do that :-)
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I wonder if you've tried any of the Rootsweb mailing lists as opposed to messageboards. I subscribed to the Wexford one and find a lot of very knowledgeable people who also have a lot of data to hand which they transcribe and post, some of it as an on-going project I think, but some of it they find at the request of other subscribers. You could subscribe to a few counties and see whether your names are common in those areas, or even ask the question of people who may well live there.
There are also mailing lists for Irish Obits, Tombstones and Cemeteries, the information could prove useful on any of these as although not nearly as much is posted to these, the data is more general than county specific which might help you pin your ancestors down. The archives are also searchable.
Mary
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Good suggestion Mary !
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hi, thanks for all that. i am on a few mailing lists in other areas for other twigs and they are excellent, but hte one i was on for Ireland, although intrresting, there was never sight of a Mclinden, McSeveny or indeed any of my other names :-( they're dead shy my lot! :-/
maybe hte list was too general .. Co Down area.
the idea of hte Irish Obits, Tombstones and Cemeteries one sounds interesting. . i must try and find that. thanks a million :-)
le durachd
fionngal
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This is the page for you to choose as many mailing lists as interest you, there's quite a variety of subjects, and if your ancestors were shy I suggest you aren't, from what I've seen on the Wexford list, if you mention a surname and that you might be looking for say - a marriage - somebody might come up with a transcription of some with that name.
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/IRL/
Ooops it helps to add the link! ;D ;D ;D
Good luck
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o right, thankyou very much ... and for hte url. i'd done a search and found a whole list of 'cemetery' type lists i never knew existed, maily for across the pond, but some looked likely candidates
http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail_cemetery.html
but these Irish ones look interesting too. i'll have a good brouse in hte morning. right now, night has caught up on me and i'm having a hard job typing between yawns :(
mile taing [1,000 thanks] :)
le durachd
fionnghal
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A photo of Kilkenny City
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Anyhow, here's a little tip - it's more than likely your Irish were Catholic, so you could look at the PR'S of their local church, and if you can't, a polite letter to the Parish Priest and a small donation to the church will always produce a response.
Checking the PR'S is worthwhile as Catholic baptisms show the names of both godparents which were usually an aunt or uncle, and this enables you to find them on the Census. Likewise, witnesses at Marriage were usually a brother or sister (although sometimes neighbours were used). And again these can lead you to interesting finds on Census Returns.
If anyone needs help, just ask ...........
::) ::)
I have just read the above and this could be the way I could maybe start breaking down my brick wall!!
But please forgive my ignorance, what are PR's?
Thanks,
Kath
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Hi Kath,
PRs are Parish Records! ;D
MarieC
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Hi Marie,
Thanks for that, I think my one brain cell must be resting as it is Sunday. How obvious, and how stupid am I!!!!!
Kath
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Don't worry about it, Kath!!! We've all done it with acronyms. I certainly have, a number of times!! ;D
Marie
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Hello-
I'm new here and quite new to all of this! I have read this thread with interest and found it really helpful. I have a few questions and hope someone can help... long post to follow.. :-[
1. I know my family are living in Cockermouth Cumbria from 1841 census, they are listed as from Ireland...yawn..it seems like here I have the same problems as many of you describe in the thread!
I have searched surrounding addresses and have found people with the same name and others born in Ireland and some listed as born in Down and Armagh.
Is it a safe assumption that my gang also came from one of these Counties? (I am making that assumption based on advice /experience mentioned in this thread).
2. Re getting to Cockermouth- I am also assuming that my family went there direcly from Ireland rather than via Liverpool. Do you think this is a reasonable assumption?
I am basing this idea on the back of there seeming to be various trade and other routes fromBelfast area to Scotland, Whitehaven etc at the time of their arrival- Famine years probably 1837 (daughter born in Cockermouth registered as age 3 on the 1841 census). Also my gang were weavers in Cockermouth- there seem to have been trade links re flax in Ireland? Maybe this was the connection re Cockermouth flax merchants?
Would you be thinking along the same lines?
3. i have no idea re there religion- I am tracing my Dad's ancestors- we, he, and his family seem to have had no religious affiliation. Can I make any assumptions re if they came from Armagh or Down? If so how do I proceed to trace them whilst still in Ireland?
4.There are various census and certificate versions of their name- Row/Roe / Rowe? Can the name help me in any way re Irish ancestry and denomination or area of origin?
5. I had a great time visiting Cockermouth whilst on holiday last year! I had a look at and found out about how horrible the area where they lived was back then, but got nowhere re appropriate records, visiting graveyards etc (twas an all too short visit!). Any advice re specific records I should look for? These could be in Cockermouth,also if I get that far searching in Ireland- I intend to do a holiday later in the year so would really like to know where to proceed next in my search!
6. Finally...! :D Any ideas in light of above re tracing the earliest of the Row / Roe etc gang- Solomon and Mary both born around 1799? (Ireland!) And can I draw any info re religion from their names?
What can I say other than thanks for reading and for any advice! :)
Best wishes
Amanda
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I too have followed this thread with interest and would just like to advise members of the difficulties I encountered. My English father and Irish mother divorced in the early 1950's. Custody was given to my father. Many years after my father's death I tried to trace my mother. I started with their marriage in 1949 in Yorkshire. According to the certificate she was the same age as he was 21.
I had great difficulty locating her but I did eventually. I found she had remarried in England 7 years later, less than 20 miles away and guess what she was still 21! She was using her first married name as though it was her maiden name and said she was a spinster. She had said her father's name was the what in actual fact my father's father's name! To cut a long story short when she died a few years ago her birth certificate revealled that she had been 28 when she married my father and 35 when she married her second husband who was only 21. Neither my father or he knew her true age. When she died her husband thought she was nearly 60 when infact she was 74 and could have been claimimg pension for 14 years. Had it not been for the fact that my father had an unusual surname and my paternal grandfather an unusual middle name I would never have found her on my own.
I traced her by writing to the parish priest and got further family information whom I traced to Manchester and they told me where she was living. I made a donation of £5 and got a long list from the Parish register of the whole family even those that were still living. Also they were a bit notorious so the Parish priest was fully acquainted with them
Just to warn you all out there you may have to ask people in Ireland like the Priest and secondly do not believe all you read on the census and certificates. My mother kept up the charade until her death, and it took me 10 years to get the truth. :o
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Dear Amanda
I really cannot help you much about Cockermouth but I personally would base more emphasis on researching there. List all the parish churches which were in use in at the time your ancestor was born in 1837 in Cockermouth. If you can find at least one church that was Romand Catholic, search the baptismal records there, if you can, or find out if anyone else holds the records. The baptismal record gives you the fathers name the mothers maiden name, and the sponsors names, usually two. Often they are relatives or close friends, follow them up on say the 1851 census, and see if they give an area in Ireland, where they may have some from. If you cannot find them in a catholic church, go through the other denominations. Before registration began in 1837 there was a big emphasis on the requirement for the clergy to keep church records, so you might be in luck. Other than that it is very difficult to make a guess regarding the area of Ireland they may have originated from, especially when you have common names or names that can be spelled in multiple ways. I have no idea how big Cockermouth is, but I do know that many Irish did go to Whitehaven, and were weavers, some later went to Manchester to work in the cotton mills.
Your family is similar to my own and I too have reached Ireland! The name Mary, is in my opinion generic, but I would consider Solomon to be reasonably unusual, but it may not make your searches anymore easier, but I do wish you some Irish luck!, and I hope some of the luck will rub off on to me.
Kind regards,
Pat ???
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I have found tracing my Irish ancestry very hard.
I have Two families in County Antrim and living in the Town of the same name.
Bryson and Campbell.
I am also trying to research Simpson in County Tyrone they lived in an area called segully.
the a Mcknight Family in Waterford villerstown.
If any one has ideas especially on the Simpson family in segully Tyrone. Let me know.
asaph :)
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Hello asaph,
Have you dates for your Irish ancestors? Have you posted details on the boards? This site http://www.thecore.com/seanruad is to show the approximate location of Segully. It is a 513 acre townland in the Barony of Omagh West. It is in Longfield East Parish and in Omagh PLU
Best Wishes, Christopher
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I thought I was up and running with mine, but it went pear-shaped. I was able to trace back to a Marriage Certificate of a now-defunct church (St Mark's - Dublin). Fortunately, as a Church of Ireland establishment, when the parish is amalgamated, all the records go to the CoI Library which is in Churchtown (how appropriate!) Dublin. Because I had identified St Marks as the marriage location, I was hoping that I'd find my Gt-Gt-Gndmothers Baptismal Record, as her hubby was Scottish, is seemed reasonable to assume it was her 'home' parish. The library gave me access to the original Register used between 1830-1860 and I ploughed through it, but even though the writing was faded in places, there was no bith record in that period for that Parish, and short of going through every equivalent book, I'm effectively stuffed.
Interestingly though, I noted a similar family surname, where 5 children to the same couple registered the birth's of 4 girls and a boy. Their name was clearly Smith, but the child's surname was shown variously as Smyth and Smith, even when the baptism was done by the SAME clergyman!
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Thanks for the input you all! in particular Pat- thanks! Very useful advice and thanks for reading my ramble! Another to follow! ::)
I made a mistake- put 1837 rather than 1847 as their Cockermouth arrival time,also 1851 rather than 1841 census info. :-[
Also forgot to say- :-[ I did get the birth certificate for Hannah born in Cockermouth ( GRO)- listed as daughter of my Solomon (born Ireland 1799)- not sure if it was the right one- dates and name fit, when I got the cert the place (Butts Fold) also fits, but parents were not the people I was expecting to find based on the 1851 census (not 41 as stated earlier- sorry). Hannah on the cert is listed re mother Sarah (on the census there is also a Sarah daughter of Solomon)
It could be the wrong cert or could it be that the child Hannah was daughter of Sarah- who is census listed as daughter of Solomon, rather than Hannah actually being daughter of Solomon? ( I guess they could have said that the young child was their own, rather than their daugters's child?)I guess there could have been many socialor possibly immigration /poor law reasons to do this? Or it could simply be that i ordered the only certificate that seemed to be the right one,but was wrong! :-\
I hope this makes sense...
But anyway- Solomon and Sarah (his daughter) are both born Ireland, I have the 'daughter' - Hannah- born in Cockermouth - cert - (if it is the right one- but seemed like the only one!) doesn't help re religion, denomination or place of origin. AAAHH!
As yet I have not had an opportunity to check Cockermouth baptism records (I am not in the area) but I guess checking records for all church denominations for the right year for Hannah the Cockermouth born child is my next step, visit Cockermouth! Then come back for more help from you gang!
Thanks again, good advice,reaaly heled to clarify thoughts and course of action- need to get to Cumbria and check out parish records!
Best wishes
Amanda
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Hello asaph,
Have you dates for your Irish ancestors? Have you posted details on the boards? This site http://www.thecore.com/seanruad is to show the approximate location of Segully. It is a 513 acre townland in the Barony of Omagh West. It is in Longfield East Parish and in Omagh PLU
Best Wishes, Christopher
Yes I did post to the Tyrone forum. no replies as yet.
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Dear Amanda
Do you not think that Hannah could be the child of Sarah and Solomon, son of Solomon? Or, perhaps Solomon had married again?
The mortality rate of the Irish was very high in Manchester, and I have a similar family which took me six months to unravel, and then when I did, the answer was so clear I was almost ashamed! I think you have to look at all possibilities, Solomon born c 1799, would have been quite old to have a daughter in c 1848, but not impossible if he had married a younger woman. That is my first reaction, but I still think that you may find a baptismal record very helpful if you can find one.
I do not know what your information is on the 1851 but if she was Solomon's granddaughter for instance, it might pay you to look around the census and see if you can find junior! Families did get separated looking for work, particularly women, who can be found working as servants, and some distance away from their family. Perhaps the 1861 census may help you too.
Not sure if this helps at all, but believe me away from their little Irish communities life was a struggle for them, and you have to keep and list all possibilities in the hope that one day it will become clearer.
Kind regards and good luck,
Pat
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Dear Amanda
ps I did a place search of LDS family search:
Topic England, Cumberland, Cockermouth - Church records
Titles Births and baptisms Independent Church (Cockermouth)
Bishop's transcripts for All Saints Church, Cockermouth, 1689-1862 Church of England. All Saints Church (Cockermouth, Cumberland)
Church records, 1841-1910 Wesleyan Methodist Chapel. Cockermouth Circuit (Cumberland)
Cockermouth miscellanea Cumbria Family History Society
Parish registers, 1632-1881 Church of England. All Saints Church (Cockermouth, Cumberland)
Parish registers, 1865-1883 Church of England. Christ Church (Cockermouth, Cumberland)
You may be able to search these records at the LDS centre closer to you, I see they have no RC records.
They also have all the censuses 1841-1891 for Cockermouth
Pat
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;D ;D ;D
Anyhow, here's a little tip - it's more than likely your Irish were Catholic, so you could look at the PR'S of their local church, and if you can't, a polite letter to the Parish Priest and a small donation to the church will always produce a response.
::) ::)
Tried the polite letter and the donation still got no where with my Murray's. Family tales say that they were from Rathmines, Dublin.
A search of the records of their local church (in England) is a good idea though because that is where I was able to get Christophers parent's first names. Thomas and Bridget were both listed on his marriage cert, which as least got me one generation back. Have him married on 1881 and his marriage in 1876, have given up on ever finding them in Ireland.
Thank goodness there are lots of other hide and seekers in England to keep me busy!
Pauline :D :D
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Thanks Pat
I had thought that Hannah was probably a daughter of Sarah rather than Solomon as listed.On the census (1851!) Solomon is alsoliving with Mary,same age,listed as wife. I can't find either Solomon or Mary on 1861 census in UK but can find another child (my line) and a couple of doors away another Solomon who then in 1871 and 1881 and 1901 is an 'imbecile' in the workhouse. He has a father called George, born Armagh, who from ages I wondered about being a son or brother of my Solomon.
Any way, I am going to revisit the whole thing and see if there is a solution looking me in the face! Oh, and get to look at baptismal records asap!
good advice, many thanks.
Amanda
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Dear Amanda
I would not worry too much about the second Solomon being described as an imbecile by the institution he was living in. Often these poor souls were often perhaps suffering from another affliction, like being deaf and could not make themselves understood, imagine the frustration.
See if you can get his death certificate at some later stage, let us hope there would be more enlightenment by then. I think that it is absolutely amazing that from all this you may have a County in Ireland to start from, which is more than most of us have who read these pages. I do hope revisiting the records will bring you more information.
Often the grandparent did describe himself as the father instead of grandfather if he is responsible for this child's welfare, and usually this is corrected by the next census. If he has died before this, you may have to assume all possibilities. I have one in mine and after much agonizing I placed him in the family but wrote of the difficulties, so in a hundred years time the alternative is there!
Must go,
Good luck and keep peeling.
Kind regards,
Pat
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Cheers!
Have had a really interesting time looking at workhouse history and records- just hate the word imbecile and the workhouse system!( Oh and thanks to younger Solomon maybe I can assume Armagh and move back a bit further.
If I have any great discoveries or find any helpful links etc will let you know. I am now really interested in the slow move in the case of my family from Cumbria to Southport (not Manchester or other industrial town!... Am now off to look what I can find out about rail links!- The family entirely change occupation somewhere between the two places- suddenly they are gardeners!)
thanks for all the help :)
Best wishes
Amanda
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Dear Amanda
As they were most probably involved with the flax trade I think it is very likely that they became gardeners in Southport, how interesting. I can only tell you that as the flax trade here became redundant the folk did take to gardening and became growers of large vegetable gardens as did their descendants, alas the younger generations with better education opportunities did not want to work the land and became the lawyers and accountants of the future. However I guess there are still some direct descendants today who manage the gardens and the markets.
Regards,
Pat
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Hi there all,
I'm just starting to feel comfortable in the feelings of frustration that come with researching family history. I can sympathise with those of you with true Irish surnames but it's just as impossible looking for relatives who had the most unusual name of Bourdot.
My Nicholas Bourdot was a POW from the Battle of Carrickfergus in 1760 and never went back to France living in Belfast for the rest of his life. He appears on the History from Headstones website. I have posted on the Antrim board before as it seemed to be the main place where they all lived and despite the name there have only been about three hits - marriage of John Bourdot, marriage of Hessy Bourdot, and birth of Albert Bourdot. I may have missed one out. There are also a couple on Familysearch that are also mine. Bourdot also appears in a Griffiths Valuation but I can't access those (that's what you get for living in New Zealand). ;)
You'd think that it would be easy to find a surname like that in Northern Ireland...or in fact any part of Ireland. I know one crowd left in 1875 for NZ (Samuel Bourdot) and another crowd left in 1890-1892 for Canada (John Bourdot).
So just where did everyone else get to???? ???
Anything would be greatly appreciated (especially a clue).
Cheers
Infobunny
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Dear Infobunny
You could try this link to see if any of the family which went to Canada, subsequently enlisted with the Canadian Armed Forces for the First World War:
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/02010602_e.html
Also, the New Zealand Forces at Defence Records, Trentham, near Upper Hutt, have kept many files for the soldiers and for the first request, and providing they are close kin, this is sent free of charge. The files gives you Attestation Papers, where they served, whether injured etc.
Sorry I cannot help you regarding Ireland, but I would check any possible resource where a place of origin may be listed.
Good luck,
Pat
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Hey there Pat,
Thanks for that. I have made some progress in Canada and am finding out new things all the time with their wonderful military records. And just for everyone's interest if you have NZ service personnel in the family Trentham aree in the process of transferring all of their military personnel records to Archives New Zealand in Wellington. Currently Archives NZ hold all Boer War records and approximately A-M in WW1 records. The transfer is happening over time and WW1 stuff should be finished in 2006. This means you can get access to files by turning up in person at the Wellington Office but you have to pay to get a photocopy of the file. Actually it is cheaper to get an Aussie military file than an NZ one dependent on the number of pages you want. For Oz it is A$28 for a file regardless of size (and you can order them over the net) and for NZ it is 50 cents a page. I only work 200 metres from Archives but even I'm having to wait three weeks for them to copy stuff!!!
As for places of origin - the attestation papers only list country so I am stuck with the ever helpful 'Ireland' ;D
Thanks for your info
Bunny
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thanks again Pat! keeping this one running! :)
My Roe gang seem to have stopped along the road (railway?) to Southport at Elswick, got married, died etc gone to Southport, back to Elswick (same gardening job) and returned and finally settled in Southport!
In Elswick and then in Southport and back again if you see what I mean, they are gardeners and then later fixed occupations linked to the railway (up to and including my grandfather) - then strangely my Dad (Roe side of the family) though he escaped his heritage ( railway trade by this time!)and made it to an extended education! guess what.. he marries a market gardener's daughter! Blimey, race memory is the term that springs to mind...
But I know the obvious more recent stuff, want to go back to Ireland!
Ahh... good luck to anyone else hitting the Ireland word! and big thanks for help here trying to work it all out.
I know that I really do have to go and try some serious research now, rather than hoping that there is an easy forum answer! :-[
Amanda
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Dear Bunny and Amanda
That is bad news that the files are being shifted to the NZ National Archives and that one has to now pay!, but I guess that is still quite inexpensive if you do find an ancestor. Good luck anyway, I had never previously heard of your family name, but I do think it is unusual, has a French ring to it. Have you tried the CMC boards, they seem to be listing a lot more records and it might help you to list on all the County forums, where your name occurs.
Amanda, thanks for the update. That is what I really love about the Irish, they worked so hard, and each generation afterwards improved their lot, I am sure this is because of their ancestors hard work ethic. Do not knock the forums!!, you never know a connection may yet read about your endeavors and have all the answers. Hope beats eternal etc.
Regards to you both,
Pat
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So frustrated! Arrrhhh (ahem - sorry about that :-[) I've been trying to find my Catholic Harrington ancestors. Initially I thought "Cornelius" would be an easy person to locate since it was an unusual Christian name. Ha! not with the Irish it wasn't! my Gt Grandfather was born in Westminster but his birth was never registered. Consequently I can't find out the maiden name of his mother. Both his parents came from Ireland but didn't give a county.
Eventually, I managed to track down his Christening and his first and second marriages to St Mary's, Horseferry Road in the Westminster Catholic Archives ( not an easy place to locate!) he wasn't born in 1856 as his marriage certificate and subsequent census returns indicate - he was born in 1854. The records are all in latin of which I have only a limited knowledge. His mother's madien name was Collins - no first name :-\. His sponsors were Dennis Collins and Johanna Conolly. Both obviously very common Irish names.
At his first marriage his wife was Mary Sullivan, her father was Daniel and the witnesses were James Harrington and Anna Sullivan. Again, there weere loads of Sullivans in the Westminster area in 1875. At his second marriage both witnesses were Williams and seem to have no irish connection.
I'd hoped that the other Irish surnames would state a County in Ireland - but they haven't. They just state Ireland :'(
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Jillie42
You are the first person I have found on Rootschat who has said they've been to the Westminster Catholic Archives!
Would you mind telling me something about them? I've been told they are only open part-time and don't have an email address, and as I am in Australia, that is not helpful!
I am searching for ancestors called Martin who lived in London and were Catholic (therefore C of E records are not helping me, except for marriages). Do you know if these Archives hold Catholic parish records for the areas of St Pancras and Marylebone?
This brick wall is driving me mad! Any information at all about the Catholic Archives will be most gratefully received!! ;D
MarieC
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Hi Marie!
This might seem a bit overwhelming - but it's Catholic!! :P :P :P :P :P
http://home.att.net/~local_Catholic/Catholic-Ireland.htm
Annie :)
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Thanks Annie!! :D
That's a terrific resource and I'm sure it will help many people. Unfortunately, my Catholic ancestors were in London (which is why I need to know about the Westminster Archives) and my Irish ancestors were Church of Ireland!! Can't win, can I?
MarieC
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Heres information !!
About the Westminster Diocesan Archives
The Westminster Diocesan Archives contain material relating to the history of the Diocese and also to the history of the Catholic Church in England and Wales. The Archives also hold a small number of sacramental registers, mainly dating from the nineteenth century. However, the majority of sacramental registers are kept by individual parishes.
If you wish to consult the Archives, you must make an appointment with the Archivist. A letter of recommendation is normally required, for example frim an academic supervisor. Since the Archivist is a priest with parish duties, the collection is normally only accessible two days a week. It is also closed for a month in the summer and during Holy week, the Christmas and Easter Octaves and other holydays. The collection is the private archive of the Archibishop of Westminster and certain other Catholic institutions. Therefore no 'right' to access exists. As with other archives, material from the last 30 years or containing sensitive information is not available for consultation.
Just in case you ever get to England!!!!!!
and check this !!
http://ireland.anglican.org/library/libroots.html
Annie :)
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I got in touch with the Westminster Archives and emailed a very nice priest there, the archivist. I didn't need a letter of recommendation and when I got there he was extremely helpful. It's just a very difficult little place to find. Down a side alley with a tiny brass plate stating "Westminster Diocesan Archives" hidden behind foliage ;D. They will do a search for a fee.
email Father Nicholas at
archivist@rcdow.org.uk
Hope this helps someone out there.
Jillie
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Annie and Jillie
You are a pair of treasures! Your blood's worth bottling!
Annie, I got an Irish researcher - at VAST expense - (why do they charge like wounded bulls in Ireland) to do some checking on my Irish ancestors. RCB Library was one place that he visited. I do now have some info on them - not as much as I'd like, but couldn't afford any more megabucks!! ;D
Jillie - thanks a million for that information! I shall send a nice, polite, begging email to Father Nicholas, outlining my case and asking if he can do something for me. Would be happy to pay a fee if they can do some research for me! I shall be greatly in your debt if I make any progress.
Thanks very much, both of you!
MarieC
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Glad to be of assistance. I've had so much help here from everyone else I'm pleased I can help someone else for a change :D
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Jillie, my friend,
You have been invaluable!
I emailed your Fr Nicholas, very politely, and eventually he got back to me. (Poor man, he must be very busy trying to fulfil all his roles without dealing with importunate emails from Australia!)
He referred me to a church called St James, Spanish Place, which he said was the nearest to where my ancestors lived. Without much hope, I emailed them, but I have had a brief email back to say yes, they have found some of my ancestors in their parish registers, and they will get back to me when they have finished looking!!! ;D
WHOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!! I am waiting, happily and impatiently, for information. I will let you know when I receive it! I don't know how much I will find out, but after a couple of years of looking for these people, anything will be valuable!
A very happy MarieC! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Marie,
so pleased for you :D It's fantastic when you suddenly feel you are getting somewhere. Really glad to have been some help,
Jillie
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Just to update you, Jillie and Annie,
A very nice priest at St James Spanish Place has sent me baptism and marriage details for some of my ancestors. Puzzlingly, not all baptisms and marriages are there, nor burials, and one or two of the entries don't seem to be quite right. But it is wonderful information to have!!! ;D ;D
Among it are birth and baptism details for my gggrandfather, which I really wanted to have! :D Now, if I can just find what happened to him at the other end of his life, when he mysteriously disappeared... ??? ???
Thanks again for your help. Much appreciated!
MarieC
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Marie,
the baptism date of my greatgrandfather doesn't tally with his age on census returns or even on his amrriage certificate. I can't tell if he deliberately lied about his age or simply didn't actually know it. I suppose in our modern age where we need to know our exact age and date-of-birth for so many things, mortgages, pensions....it's impossible to imagine an age where knowing your exact age was largely irrelavent. My g-g grandfather Cornelius Harrington seems to have mysteriously disappeared after my grandmother's mis-timed pregnancy in 1923, he is missing from the 1881 census and changed his first name completely in the 1901 census.
Seems to be a lot of it about :-\
Still, the mysteries make the search all that more interesting - or frustrating.
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I have a Patrick rice born in 1847 in Monaghan, and he came to England, i know all his details from been married, but cannot find any more on his family in Ireland. It has been extremely frustrating to say the least!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would love to know more about my Irish rellies, but don't know where to start!!
Jane ???
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just read this thread and noticed your advice of finding church of usage. i have my g.grandfathers marriage record with the church he was married in scotland, there is nothing on this to indicate place of birth (though i know he was born in ireland from subsequent cencus records) does your advice mean i can maybe find out whereabouts in ireland from church records in scotland? if so any idea how i would go about this?
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I have a Patrick rice born in 1847 in Monaghan, and he came to England, i know all his details from been married, but cannot find any more on his family in Ireland. It has been extremely frustrating to say the least!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would love to know more about my Irish rellies, but don't know where to start!! Jane ???
Hi Jane,
Just noticed this post. ...... As you've obviously got Patrick's father's name from his marriage cert. you should try the County Monaghan Heritage Centre. I'm sure they'll be able to help
Monaghan Ancestry,
6 Tully St,
Monaghan Town,
County Monaghan.
Tel: + 353 (0)87 6310360
Email: monaghanancestry-at-eircom.net
Happy hunting !
;D ;D ;D
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just read this thread and noticed your advice of finding church of usage. i have my g.grandfathers marriage record with the church he was married in scotland, there is nothing on this to indicate place of birth (though i know he was born in ireland from subsequent cencus records) does your advice mean i can maybe find out whereabouts in ireland from church records in scotland? if so any idea how i would go about this?
Hi Joanne,
Just noticed this post. Did you ever find anything further out ? Unfortunately, I know nothing of Scottish Church Records, but it might be worth writing to the Parish Priest of this particular one, you never know !
:D :D :D
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Hi Mobo
thanks very much for thinking of me will try that site and see what happens ;D
Jane ;)
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No Mobo I never did find out any more. Have been lost in a sea of previously unknown ancestors but have nearly exhausted online sources so will soon have to venture into the still unknown to me search of parish registers etcetera. As travelling far afield is not possible for me at the moment I think I might have to put out a few cries for help. Maybe a post on here, what do you think?
Joanne
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;D ;D ;D
Hi Joanne
When you say you have your g.grandfathers marriage record, do you mean his Marriage Certificate, or a copy of the Record in the Parish Register ?? If it's just a Certificate, then there won't be any details about place of birth etc., if it's a copy of the Parish Register, then that avenue is obviously closed.
All I can say is that as far as English Catholic Church records are concerned, place of birth is sometimes given - not always you understand, and a letter to the Parish Priest (with an S.A.E. and a small donation) nearly always results in a full copy of the Parish Register being sent.
You should also try posting a query on the Scotland Board - I'm sure someone there will be able to point you in the right direction.
Happy Hunting
;D ;D
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HI,
Sorry for delay in reply, have been away.
Yes it is just the marriage certificate I have so it might still be possible to find place of birth on parish records.
When you say write to the parish priest, do you know how I find out who the present Priest would be as the marriage in question took place in 1871, and you are right that it was a Catholic Church.
Regards Joanne
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:D :D :D
Hi Joanne
You should be able to find the church if you Google - a lot of churches have their own websites these days and give details of clergy etc. Failing that, it should at least show the address.
;D ;D ;D
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I discovered this thread last night and read it all in one sitting. Very informative.
Although I was feeling discouraged and thought I would find nothing about my Irish ancestors, I am feeling more positive after reading this. I am still a bit overwhelmed, but feel that I may at least have a starting point.
Mobo, I wonder if you might be kind enough to look up something for me in your "Census of the Townlands and Towns of Ireland" book please?
I am in Australia and my Irish relatives came here from Wexford in about 1884. The information I have about them has come from their marriage certificate (they married in a Roman Catholic church in Australia) and death certificates. Place of birth of one ancestor is given as New Ross, Wexford. Place of birth of the other is given as Wexford, Wexford. (Would this be Wexford City, Wexford?). From these certificates I also have names of both sets of parents and father's jobs.
Should I be trying to find out the churches in Wexford that the families attended and where they were probably baptised? If so, are you able to assist with the details you have in your census book (eg Townland, Barony, Parish etc) from simply knowing the names of these towns?
Am I correct in thinking that if I know these details, then I might be able to move forward?
Thank you very much.
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;D ;D ;D
Hi engir !
You're very lucky indeed to have so much information. Armed with this, you should be able to find your ancestors through the Wexford Heritage Centre.
Westgate Heritage Centre
Spawell Road
Wexford
Ireland
Tel: +353 53 46506
And although you don't need to know the Townlands & Towns etc., as the Centre will be able to give you these, here they are anyway.
Townland & Town NEWROSS
County WEXFORD
Barony BANTRY
Parish ST MARY
Poor Law Union NEW ROSS
Townland & Town WEXFORD
County WEXFORD
Barony FORTH
Parish ST MARY
Poor Law Union WEXFORD
Happy hunting !!
;D ;D ;D
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Thank you very much Mobo.
I am heartened that you think I have a lot of information about my Irish ancestors!
I will contact the Heritage Centre as you suggested. I have addresses of a couple of other places which I thought may be able to help - one is the Wexford Geneaology Centre at Tagoat, and another I cannot for the life of me find the name of (in Murrintown).
At one stage I thought I might be able to buy marriage certificates for some ancestors. I have their names, but not dates or places of marriage. Ho hum.
At least now I feel more positive. I will take your good advice. Many thanks.
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Getting precisely NO WHERE with mine. I know they were Harringtons - Cornelius and possibly Helen (or Ellen, or Eileen or Eleonor ::) :o) No idea WHERE in Ireland they came from - just "ireland" on the census. Cornelius and Helen only appear on the 1871 in St John westminster and have two sons Cornelius born in England 1854 and James, apparenly born in Ireland in 1859. There is no registration for Cornelius jrn although I have his baptismal records from the Westminster Diocesan records. His mother's name is "Collins" and his sponsors are Dennis Collins and Johanna Conolly. I can't find a Dennis Collins in the census living close to Helen and Cornelius. There are loads of Irish living at the same address in Westminster but they all say "Ireland"
And that's IT!!!!!!!!!!
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I grooooaaaaan when I discover one of mine was Irish :-X
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Getting precisely NO WHERE with mine. I know they were Harringtons - Cornelius and possibly Helen (or Ellen, or Eileen or Eleonor ::) :o) No idea WHERE in Ireland they came from - just "ireland" on the census. Cornelius and Helen only appear on the 1871 in St John westminster and have two sons Cornelius born in England 1854 and James, apparenly born in Ireland in 1859. There is no registration for Cornelius jrn although I have his baptismal records from the Westminster Diocesan records. His mother's name is "Collins" and his sponsors are Dennis Collins and Johanna Conolly. I can't find a Dennis Collins in the census living close to Helen and Cornelius. There are loads of Irish living at the same address in Westminster but they all say "Ireland" And that's IT!!!!!!!!!!
:( :( :(
Well Jillie,
You've obviously done everything possible to check where in Ireland these people came from, but it looks as though they married there, had a son here, then another one there, and seemed to disappear after 1871. I honestly don't know what else to suggest now.
However, what I did find was
1861 Census
RG9/554
Newington,
Hythe
Kent
Dennis COLLINS/Head/38/Coastguard/Boatman/Ireland
Johanna COLLINS/Wife/28/Ireland
Dennis COLLINS/Son/9/Kent
Cornelius COLLINS/Son/7/Kent
Mary A COLLINS/Dau/3/Kent
Ellen COLLINS/Dau/1/Kent
which look very much like the people who sponsored Cornelius Jnr.
That's all I can offer I'm afraid.
:) :) :)
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Thanks anyway Mobo.
I did another search on Ancestry.co.uk of the names Dennis Collins and Johanna Conolly. Not much to go on so I simply put their ages as roughtly the same as Cornelius and Helen, gaastle Townsendve their place of origin as ireland and put "England" into the death section.
Several results - one gave a Dennis Collins living in St Clement Danes, Westminster roughly the same age as my ancestors and one gave a Dennis Collins living in Lincolnshire, 1813 from Castle Townsend Cork.
Then I entered Johanna Conolly. Only reasonable hit was on the 1881 census which gave the right sort of age and gave her birth place as "Codle Townsend, Cork".....I suspect this might also be Castle Townsend since I've goolgled Codle Townsend and got nothing.
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;D ;D ;D
I didn't realise you had this information - so armed with these clues, you could try the Cork Heritage Centre - they may be able to help
Cork Ancestry
c/o Cork County Library
Farranlea Road,
Cork
(021) 546499 - Ruth Flanagan
;)
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both my fathers grand folks came from ireland
they think one set black and Quinn came from Belfast
Robert black abt 1861 Catherine Quinn abt 1862
we no they had two sons born in ireland james abt 1882 and Robert abt 1883
we also no they came to liverpool before the birth of the next child who was Margret abet 1884
on the other side we got
thomas Flanagan abt 1853 he married Catherine Dunn abt 1847
we think they came from southern ireland but thats all we have to go
we no that all 4 of their kids where born in liverpool
thomas abt 1876 died as a baby
Michael abet 1878 died 1907
john abt 1879 died 1949
Catherine abt 1886 had no kids
thomas abt 1888 died 1942 had
john abet 1879 was the only one to have any kids
any ideas
we no they where all Catholics, and can trace them quite well once they where in liverpool
cheers
;)
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;D ;D ;D
Sorry cb
Can't find your Flanagans ANYWHERE ??? ??? ??? ???, so can't guess which church they would have been baptising their children. What documentation do you actually have ?
I found the Blacks though, and if you can pinpoint their particular church, you might be able to find more information from some of their children's baptismal records.
1891 Census
RG12/2899
(Scotland Ward)
Penrhryn Street
Liverpool
Robert BLACK/Head/31/Horse Keeper/Ireland
Kate BLACK/Wife/29/Ireland
James BLACK/Son/9/Ireland
Robert BLACK/Son/8/Ireland
Margaret BLACK/Dau/6/Liverpool
John BLACK/Son/5/Liverpool
Kate BLACK/Dau/1/Liverpool
1901 Census
RG13/3467
21 Barlow Street
Kirkdale
Liverpool
Lancs
Robert BLACK/Head/40/Navvy/Ireland
Catherine BLACK/Wife/39/Ireland
Margaret BLACK/Dau/17/Liverpoool
John BLACK/Son/15/Liverpool
Catherine BLACK/Son/11/Liverpool
Arthur BLACK/Son/9/Liverpool
Esther BLACK/Dau/6/Liverpool
Sarah BLACK/Dau/4/Liverpool
James CUNARD/Boarder/26/Marine Fireman/Kirkdale
Francis MANNIGAN?/Boarder/53/Ireland
And a Margaret Black was born
in 1884 in Liverpool
June Qtr 8b 48
;) ;)
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Hi all, I too have Irish ancestors- McLoughlins and a Cotter from Cork who came over to Liverpool c 1848, McCormack from Dublin and possibly a Meekin from Newry. I have also found a Finch (English) who married an Irish woman but I don't know her maiden name! I don't even know where to start... I tried looking on a site for my Cork relations but I didn't have enough info. Oh well... one of these days.....
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......... I don't even know where to start... I tried looking on a site for my Cork relations but I didn't have enough info. Oh well... one of these days.....
Why don't you start by giving us the information you have on the Cork lot and the Dublin lot.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks but I have very little...
Peter McLOUGHLIN born Cork c 1802 married his second wife Margaret Cotter, Born c 1825. They arrived in Liverpool sometime between 1847 and 1850. In 1851 I have
Peter McLOUGHLIN 49 Schoolmaster (formerly Cooper)
Margaret McLoughlin 26
Ann McLoughlin 19 Fancy Knitter
Joseph " 14
Peter " 12
Ellen " 5
Michael " 4
Mary " 2 Born Liverpool
Alphonsus 10 mnths Born Wolverhampton.
There may have been other children from his earlier marriage that didn't travel with him.
The other family I know even less about!
Thomas McCormack (born Dublin) married Mary Meekin (born Newry) c 1890 in Liverpool.
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;D ;D ;D
Okay, that's fine, so you have the McCloughins and Cotters in England, and know they both came from Cork (a milestone)!. Another important point; Peter was Schoolmaster, which means his family were probably a little 'better off' than most, and their records (together with his two wives' familes) should be reasonably traceable.
You should first contact the Cork Heritage Centre, and see what they can offer.
Cork Ancestry
c/o Cork County Library
Farranlea Road,
Cork
(021) 546499 - Ruth Flanagan
;D ;D ;D
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:D :D :D
Okay Liverpool, now for the rest..........
Thomas McCORMACK married
Mary MEEKIN in Liverpool
Dec Qtr 8b 377
which certificate you can order online at
www.1837online.com
:) :) :)
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;D ;D ;D
1891 Census
RG12/2905
23 Barmouth Street
Liverpool
Thomas McCORMACK/Head/22/Dock Labourer/Ireland
Mary McCORMACK/Wife/22/Factory Hand/Liverpool, Lancs
On the same page there is an Arthur & Catherine MEEKIN from Ireland & family.
;) ;) ;)
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hi Mobo, wonder if you can offer me some advice :)
I'm trying to track down my g-g-grandmother, Margaret Lyden, who was born about 1833 in Clifden, Co Galway. Her father was a coastguard (William Lyden) and her brother, Bartholomew, was also a coastguard. Bartholomew was born on 22 May 1822 in 'Orney [sic], Galway' (this info is from his naval records at Kew).
Considering that this family would have moved around quite a bit in the coastguard service, could you suggest the best way of tracing them (I'm hoping to visit Ireland this autumn on a holiday/ancestor hunt ;D)
Clara :)
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:D :D
You've obviously found Thomas & Mary on the 1901 Census with son Michael, as it shows their birthplaces as Dublin & Newry, respectively.
You should now send for the marriage certificate to find out their fathers' names, and to show which Church they married in. When you have that, you'll be able to contact the Dublin Heritage Centre, for more info. I'm sorry I can't help with Newry as I have no experience of Northern Irish records.
Happy hunting !!
:D :D :D
Dublin Heritage Group
2nd Floor, Cumberland House
Fenian Street
Dublin 2
Tel (01) 4591048
(01) 6761628
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hi Mobo, wonder if you can offer me some advice :)
I'm trying to track down my g-g-grandmother, Margaret Lyden, who was born about 1833 in Clifden, Co Galway. Her father was a coastguard (William Lyden) and her brother, Bartholomew, was also a coastguard. Bartholomew was born on 22 May 1822 in 'Orney [sic], Galway' (this info is from his naval records at Kew). Considering that this family would have moved around quite a bit in the coastguard service, could you suggest the best way of tracing them (I'm hoping to visit Ireland this autumn on a holiday/ancestor hunt ;D) Clara :)
Hi Clara,
Not sure what you want me to do on this one - did this family come to England ? As you have so much information, and if they stayed in and around Galway, (or anywhere else in Ireland), I'd think both the Galway Heritage Centres would probably be the best places to start.
East Galway Family History Society Ltd
Woodford Heritage Centre
Main Street
Woodford
Co. Galway
Tel + 353 509 49309
Galway Family History Society West Ltd.
Research Unit
Venture Centre
Liosbaun Estate
Tuam Road
Galway
Tel + 353 91 756737
;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D
As there seem to be so many Cork relatives being sought at the moment, here's a pickie of St Patrick's Bridge, Cork.
8) 8) 8)
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Thanks Mobo :)
Actually, I haven't got a huge amount of info on these Lydens (other than from census and naval records), but I will write to these FHS's and see how I get on....
So many thanks for these addresses :D
Clara
ps and yes, Margaret Lyden married a coastguard (!) and moved to England (Kent) where her husband was posted in the service - they ended up in Hove in their old age....
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;D ;D ;D
Clara,
You might be interested in this site about Irish Coastguards
http://www.coastguardsofyesteryear.org/
;D ;D ;D
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Thank you very much. Time to search!!
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sorry am such a ploker
its langan must of been when i spelt checked my post
what a prat i am lol
sorry mobo ???
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G'Day Mobo!
Hard at it I see,maybe you could do a quickie for me?Would a middle class girl be able to marry in Waterford Cathedral?
Two possible Father's,one a Shoemaker,of Patrick St;one Upholsterer,Poleberry St;so not short of a shilling. Plus possible exra dosh from a horse racing win!!
Goggy. ;) ;D ::)
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Mobo, It's 05.40am :D Sure and why couldn't she marry in Waterford Cathedral, goggy ???
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G'Day to you Christopher!
Youv'e the cream of the day there!
No reason,just like know to if it could be within financial,status,whatever, reach.
Wouldn't be an everyday thing would it?Special this,that and the other surely?
Goggy. ;) ;D ???
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G'Day Mobo!
Hard at it I see,maybe you could do a quickie for me?Would a middle class girl be able to marry in Waterford Cathedral?
Two possible Father's,one a Shoemaker,of Patrick St;one Upholsterer,Poleberry St;so not short of a shilling. Plus possible exra dosh from a horse racing win!! Goggy. ;) ;D ::)
;D ;D ;D
Not really 'hard at it' goggy - it was just too hot to sleep, so I made myself a cuppa, checked my replies, then went back to bed (yawn).
As to your question, I haven't got a clue ???? you'd probably be better asking someone on the Waterford Board.
;D ;D
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sorry am such a ploker
its langan must of been when i spelt checked my post
what a prat i am lol
sorry mobo ???
;D ;D ;D
RIGHT !! here we go again !!
1891 Census
RG12/2968
123 Braemar Street
Kirkdale
Liverpool
Thomas LANGDON/Head/38/Coal Cleaver/Ireland
Catherine LANGDON/Wife/49/Ireland
Michael LANGDON/Son/15/Liverpool, Lancs
John LANGDON/Son/11/Liverpool, Lancs
Catherine LANGDON/Dau/5/Liverpool, Lancs
Thomas LANGDON/Son/3/Lierpool, Lancs
John HEALY/HEANY/Step-son/22/Dock Labourer/Ireland
So Catherine was married to someone called HEALY/HEANY before she married Thomas, which would explain the difference in their ages. I couldn't find their marriage in England.
I couldn't find them anywhere on the 1881 Census either, so god knows where they were hiding !!
I assume your ancestor is John b. 1879, and if you have his birth certificate, then you might find more info in the Church baptismal records.
Happy hunting !
:D :D :D
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Mobo,too hot is it?Start filling bucket's of it ready for Winter!
Been on the Waterford board,for a while,no answer's as yet,but Patience I've got plenty of.
Goggy. ;) ;D
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:D :D :D
Wish I had more !!
;D ;D ;D
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your a star mobo
yep my old mans old man was john
john and his wife sarah lost 4 boys before going on to have 3 boys and 1 girl
their kids gave them 6 grandchildren
and the count so far, for great grandchildren is about 14 so they didnt do bad
some family members think they came from west port in mayo
and there is a story about my great great mother made cork boots for deep sea divers sadly we haven t found anythink about boots for divers made from cork
think i will try get their birth certs before the end of the month
thanks again.
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Hi Mobo
Help!!!! Where do I go from here??
1861 census had Mary Curran(widow) with Eliza (17) and John (13) all from Ireland and now in Durham. Going through census in 1901 John has said he's from Co.Cairo (no such place) so I've opted for Co.Carlow as they are phonetically similar and I had to start somewhere. I got John's marriage cert and it had the fathers name as Tobias (deceased). Someone found Tobias Curran on Griffiths in Co.Carlow but what now? How do I go about finding births, deaths, and marriages?
I'm in need of some advice I think
Many thanks
Suziq ???
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:D :D :D
Hi suz
You're probably correct in thinking that the County of birth is Carlow, (a major plus). Also, as you have Tobias as the father, you should try contacting the recently re-opened, Carlow Heritage Centre, I'm sure they'll be able to help.
Carlow Genealogy Project
Old School
College Street
Carlow
Ireland
Tel: +353 503 30850
Happy hunting
:D :D :D
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Hi Mobo
Thanks for that number I'll give it a go!!!!!
Suziq :)
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have been able to find cen for the blacks
but cant find the langan one
also found out the blacks where living in court 5
the street is still there but the courts have gone
the only thing thats is worrying me over the langan one is
catherine is 8 years older
and her name was dunn before she got married
we think she was married before to a newry and had a son called john
we no the live in 130 breamer street in 1901
and she died in 1902 age 55
wife has found all but one of their kids christening in st johns church kirkdale
this also gave us the address of where they where living when the kids was born and there god parnets
am just wondering was the surname and her date of birth wrote down wrong or was there another family living in the street.
well am off tomorrow to order my grand folks (john and sarah) birth certs hopefuly they will tell us where in ireland the langans and the blacks came from
take all be safe
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have been able to find cen for the blacks
........wife has found all but one of their kids christening in st johns church kirkdale, this also gave us the address of where they where living when the kids was born and there god parnets am just wondering was the surname and her date of birth wrote down wrong or was there another family living in the street. well am off tomorrow to order my grand folks (john and sarah) birth certs hopefuly they will tell us where in ireland the langans and the blacks came from take all be safe
::) ::) ::)
cb,
Birth Certificates only give, date of birth. where born, address, father's name & occupation, mother's name (and name before married). Any other info such as where the family came from can sometimes be found be on the Baptismal record in the Church Register (but not always).
;D ;D ;D
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i thought the full birth certs sometimes give where the mother and father came from
we no when my grandda s mum died and where she was buried so will see about getting her death cert as these often have the place of birth
we have just gotten copys of the baptism record and they dont give the place the mum or dad came from
i thought £7.00 was a good deal for a full birth cert, but it takes two weeks but the good news they post it.
onlys nice to have the birth certs even if it dont tell u much
cheers again mobo
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well we now that on the 1881 census thomas langan is down as joseph langdon
and that great grandmother cathrine had a son by her first marrige to a guy called nearly
the son was john neary abt 1866
john neary is living in the same street a my great grand folks in the 1901 census and as a family of his own
takecare all besafe
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Wow, the amount of work you are doing on this thread is impressive Mobo. Now I hope some of you can help me .. several of you have approached Heritage Centres which tend to be members of the Irish Family History Foundation. When replying to you with information regarding your ancestors did they quote the sources where they found the information? I'd like to know as I've received a message from a person who approached two Centres and in both cases sources were not quoted.
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well things are looking up for thomas langan and catherine dunne
catherines first husband was patrick neary
with catherine and patricks neary son john he married mary scot
and now am in touch with with john and marys gggson so things are looking up
takecare besafe
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Hi all,
Any of you kind people who have "cracked it" got any tips please ?
I know that my GGGrandad was born in Ireland.... however it is proving to be a nightmare trying to find out where. All I know is that he married in Liverpool in 1876 at the age of 24. Is there anywhere I could look to find out the names of Irish who moved to Liverpool in the 1800's for example.
Many thanks
Tony Quinn
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Hi all,
Any of you kind people who have "cracked it" got any tips please ?
I know that my GGGrandad was born in Ireland.... however it is proving to be a nightmare trying to find out where. All I know is that he married in Liverpool in 1876 at the age of 24. Is there anywhere I could look to find out the names of Irish who moved to Liverpool in the 1800's for example.
Many thanks
Tony Quinn
Hiya Tony,
You're in luck. You get your answer as soon as you ask your question. I asked the following six weeks ago. Now I hope some of you can help me .. several of you have approached Heritage Centres which tend to be members of the Irish Family History Foundation. When replying to you with information regarding your ancestors did they quote the sources where they found the information? I'd like to know as I've received a message from a person who approached two Centres and in both cases sources were not quoted. I feel very strongly that sources should be given in all instances. If the Heritage Centre or anyone else has made an error then without sources it means a lot of extra work.
Now in answer to your question, Tony. I regret there are no places where you can find the names of Irish people who moved to Britain from Ireland in the 1800s. These were internal movements within the United Kingdom so there was no necessity to keep records of movements. Soldiers might be a different matter. You could possibly trace troop movements and the dates that they moved from one barracks to another.
Chris
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Hi Christopher,
Thanks very much for your swift and prompt reply. Looks like a lot of hard searching and work ahead then.......lol :o
Thanks again and all the best.
Tony
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Hi Mobo,
Any tips for my new found Canadian cousin M & I?
We have searched for a couple of years, M with a vengeance lol but with no joy.
John Roche & Angel McCarthy married 23rd July 1864 @ the Chapel of St Ann & Mary Shandon, Cork City, Cork.
M has had no luck with their baptism from the Church. Where else can we look?
Genegenee
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;D ;D
Hi Genegenee
You could try getting in touch with,
Cork City Ancestral Project
Cork County Library
Farranlea Road
County Cork
Republic of Ireland
:D :D
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You're so right - tracing anything Irish is worse than pulling teeth. I have, on my wifes side, kin still living there and I can't find any supportable info from any source. The family burial plot is in the Old Blaris burial ground in Lisburn, Co. Antrim and even their records are suspect. They have recorded names back to the early 1800,s which even the family don't recognise! So, what does one do? If anyone out there has any sensible suggestions I would love to hear them. And by the way my only access is via the internet as I'm sitting in Florida sunshine, a long way from the source.
Alan F.
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Hi this is Genegenee's cousin, M, writing ---I've tried Cork
Ancestry Project, but they can't find John Roche baptised in 1841 --they have one in 1844, in St Mary's and St. Anne's --and another in 1844 in St. Patricks. The one from St M & A's has his mother as Sarah Murphy --none of his children has the name Sarah -so I discounted this baptismal record. The one from St. Patrick's had John Roche as the father and Hanora Murphy as his mother --but I don't know if this was MY John Roche's parents --he was to have been born in 1841 according to both his marriage and death certs.
On John Roche and Angela McCarthy's marriage cert (for St. Ann and Mary Shandon - North Cathedral now)--it doesn't show their birthplaces --only their residence at the time of their marriage, which on 23 July 1864, was 34 Dominick Street, Cork City. And the same thing on his death cert --15 Jan 1866 --it only shows his place of death - 2 Brogue Market Street, in Cork City.
Any further suggestions as to where to look next?? John Roche was a very common name. I've tried the "relatives in Ireland" route --they don't have much info that they are willing to share. Thanks M in Canada
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??? ???
Unfortunately, it looks like you may have hit the proverbial 'brick wall' with this one Marge. Even though John 'married' in Cork, it doesn't neccessarily mean he was born there, perhaps it was Angela's Parish. You could try Cork Ancestral Project again to see if they have a 'birth' record for her. Other than that, I don't know what else to suggest. Sorry.
??? ???
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I've tried CAP for Angela's baptismal record --no luck with that either/ :<( I did make one typing error on my last message --John died on January 15, 1886 --not 1866. My grandmother was only 15 days old when her dad passed away. Do you know how to access Irish Wills?? Just in case he left a will --- thanks Marge
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;D ;D
You might try posting a query about Irish Wills on the 'Ireland Board' Marge .
;D ;D
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Will do. Thanks ---I really enjoy your board --find it very informative and you've been very helpful. :>) Marge
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I've been very lucky and with help have managed to find the births of my great grandparents. I would now like to find them on the 1901 census, by ordering the appropriate reels from the local FHC. The challenge - which reels do I order?
Mary Devlin grew up around Quigley's Point near Moville, Co. Donegal (her baptism and parent's marriage have been found at St Patricks, Parish of Iskaheen, Diocese of Derry).
I have the birth certificate of William Meehigan in Artitighe, Kinsale, Cork.
The 1901 will be the only chance I have to find them with their respective families as they married Dec 31, 1910 in Glasgow, Scotland - have to wait for the 1911 to come out to find them on that.
Any and all help apprecitated.
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Mobo, its tough. I tried to find my Irish ancestors a couple of years ago but made zero progress and gave up. Just decided to try again and posted this message over the weekend:
"I found my ggg grandfather, Edward Dwyer was born in Ireland but cannot find from which town or county. Based on the 1841 census in England, he was born between 1791 and 1796; his first wife was Mary, born 1796 to 1801 also in Ireland; they had a son Richard born abt 1821 in Ireland; their first daughter, Marry Ann, was born in Leeds in 1828. So, Edward and Mary appear to have come to Leeds between 1821 and 1828. He was a weaver and they lived in the Richmond Hill area of the city. Mary died in 1842 and Edward married a Sarah Park, born in Ireland, in 1843.
Grateful for any help or advice in how I could trace the family in Ireland."
Reading some of the replies to your message made me realised that I had forgotten something important. The children born in England where baptised into the Church of England (St Peters, the Parish Church of Leeds). Can I assume that they were a protestant family in Ireland and therefore I should be looking in the northern counties?
Any ideas grateful recieved!!
Steve
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;D ;D
This is an extra 'tricky' one Steve, not only did Edward & Mary die before the 1851 Census, (so killing the possibility of their birth County being shown on later Censuses), but, it looks as if the family may have been Protestant, in which case, I don't know how to advise you.
However, looking at the 1851 Census, the Dwyer family have quite a few neighbours who are all from Ireland and who all seem to be in the 'Weaving' trade. So this could possibly be a clue as to where they all came from in Ireland.
I suggest you get in touch with the Family History Society which covers the Leeds area, they should be able to help with this. You'll find them on.
http://www.yorkshireroots.org.uk/index.html
Sorry I can't be of more help.
;) ;) ;)
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Hi All
I always considered myself Scottish, I knew we had Irish Ancestor - there are not many people in the West of Scotland who do not - but I never bargained on how many. I was shocked to discover that out of 16 families going back over 250 years only 2 are Scottish.
I was struggling to find out where in Ireland, but had a bit of luck with a number of things.
Scottish Parish registers - Catholic records - upto about 1860 often said where the person being married came from. This was I learned my Smith's came from County Down - still don't know where in County Down, but I have something to work onl
A dilignet enumerator in the Census put County Tyrone for my Lynn's. A poor law record for the same family showed that they came for Shanmaghry a hamlet near Dungannon. Poor law records are really detailed. I got place of birth, parents, marriage, children, childrens marriage and all families. Great stuff.
Birth certificates in Scotland showed the parents date of marriage. My Deignan's had been married in Derry - another starting point.
Irish records where they exist are in themselves awful. Living in Scotland has spoiled me - Most Irish records only name fathers - mothers don't count. Death certificates don't give parents names. The National Archives in Belfast does have all the Catholic parish records and that is where I found my GGGrandfather Lynn's date of brith in October 1825. So it can be done with a lot of luck and help. Happy hunting.
Liz
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Steve- all Protestants did not, and still do not, live in what is now Northern Ireland so relgion will not really narrow down area to search. Same with weavers.
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I've just had a read through the messages on this board as I too am stuck with Irish roots!! My husbands great grandfather was born in Irleand (Edward Fagan in 1861 ish) but we don't know where. His marriage cert gives his father as Patrick Fagan and he is deceased by the time of marriage in 1882.
Edward and his brother James moved to Workington Cumbria sometime after the 1881 census but before Feb 1882 when he got married. The 1901 census just lists Edward as originating from Ireland.
Edward and James both married sisters who were living in Workington in 1881, but they originated in Rathfriland County Down.
I think Fagan may have been Fegan or Fagen when it originated in Ireland? What a minefield.
Claire
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We consider ouselves lucky to have come across this board, and I have just finished reading all 18 pages, and links. We have only recently ventured into Eng/Sct research, and really not into Irish before this week. Although things could look alarming, maybe not (?) But if so many apparently in England who have Irish ancestors are lost . . .
To keep it very brief, we have just found one ancestor, otained by looking sideways at possible friends and relatives in Sct, whose death certificate said he, George TAIT, died in 1855 in Maybole [Ayrshire Scotland] age 99 born in Stradown [Stradone ?] County Cavan, wife Mary SMITH, had lived in Maybole 25 years, some detail of 10 children born in Ireland, and his parents John and Euphemia ARMSTRONG. George' children John & Mary (spouses Susannah nee LANG and Thomas) also moved to Maybole where all their children were born, and the younger John's dau emigrated to Australia in 1858 where she married Robert HARVIE from Sct, nationality also Irish, 17 days after he arrived in 1864 - suggesting the families originally came from the same locality in Ireland.
We were/are hoping to find more detail of TAIT ancestry, but more particularly of the LANGs and/or SMITHs, but most particularly of the HARVIE family ie, the direct line.
Being not only new to Irish research, but also located in South Australia, we really don't know what to do next. ??? :-[ :'( We have put a posting on for County Cavan, Ireland - General, which you may care to look at, but have not (yet) received any response(s). :( :'(
[ps - somehow I managed to post the entry to County Cavan right at start of typing and by the time "modified", it already had 9 hits who may never look at it again.]
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MOBO CAN YOU HELP ME I AM TRYING TO TRACE THE FAMILY OF CATHRINE FLANNERY N HER MARRIED NAME WAS DOYLE SHE LIVED IN DUBLIN SOUTH SIDE SHE DIED IN 1956 OR 57 SHE WAS51 WHEN SHE DIED SHE HAD 3 CHILDREN MARY PADDY AND THOMAS PADDY DIED IN SEP 1949 OR 50 AND MARY DIED IN 19 FEB 1950 OR 51 THEY WERE BURIED IN MOUNT JEROME ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE WOULD BE MOST HELPFULL AS I AM LEARNING TO USE THE COMP
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........I AM TRYING TO TRACE THE FAMILY OF CATHERINE FLANNERY. HER MARRIED NAME WAS DOYLE . SHE LIVED IN DUBLIN, SOUTH SIDE, AND DIED IN 1956/57 AGE 51. SHE HAD 3 CHILDREN - MARY, PADDY AND THOMAS. PADDY DIED IN SEP 1949/50 AND MARY DIED IN 19 FEB 1950/51 THEY WERE BURIED IN MOUNT JEROME. ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE WOULD BE MOST HELPFULL AS I AM LEARNING TO USE THE COMP .
;D ;D ;D
Hello Hooch !
Because these records are relatively new ones, and because you have so much information, the best thing for you to do would be to post this query on the Dublin area of the Ireland Board. I'm sure someone there will come to your aid. If you know how to do it, just copy the text from above and paste it there, if you don't, then just type it out again.
Good luck
;) ;) ;)
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:( :(
Whoops
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:( :(
Whoops !