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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Forfarian on Saturday 28 October 17 14:53 BST (UK)
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In the 1881 census Henry Turner is described as "Senior examiner in the Exchequer Dept and novelist". I have him in 1861 described as clerk and in 1871 described as senior examiner in the audit department of the exchequer. However I have found nothing about his career as a novelist.
A brief background. Henry was born in Salford or Manchester, depending which census you believe, in 1829/1830, parents probably William Turner and Mary Alsey. In 1861 he had a wife named Minnie, aged 29, but I do not know what her surname was. Minnie must have died before 1867 because he married Jean Waddell Oswald on 14 March 1867 at St John The Evangelist, Notting Hill, London. They had a son Henry Jean O, born 1869. Jean died in 1869, in the same quarter as the birth of Henry Jean O. On 28 June 1871 Henry married Catherine Wilson Oswald, who was Jean's first cousin once removed. Henry and Catherine had two sons and two daughters, and I think Henry must be the Henry Turner who died in Fulham in 1886, aged 55. Catherine and her children emigrated to America in 1893. Henry Jean O had died in 1877. I have the 1861, 1871, and 1881 censuses and all the relevant birth, marriage and death references except Henry's birth/baptism and Minnie's birth/baptism, marriage and death.
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Just a thought...
He possibly had a 'Pen' name making it harder to locate his works?
Annie
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He may have done, in which case the chances of finding anything about him dwindle almost to zero :(
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In the 1881 census Henry Turner is described as "Senior examiner in the Exchequer Dept and novelist"
Where was he in 1881?
All is not lost yet even if he did have a 'Pen' name :-\
What about an email to the local archives for the area he lived in 1881 with all the details to try & find info. on him especially with his occ. as I think there might be something on him?
Annie
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For our looker reference:
1861: St Pancras, Middlesex
RG 9 / Piece 95 / Folio 108 / Pg5
Henry, age 31, b Salford, Lancs
Minnie, age 28, b Honley, Yorkshire
No children with them.
1867 Marriage: St John, Notting Hill - his marriage to 17 yr old Jean Waddell Oswald:
Henry TURNER, 33, widower, Civil Service, of Mall Terrace
Father: William TURNER, Gentleman
Both Witness' were Oswalds.
1871 Marriage: to Catherine Wilson OSWALD took place in Mordington, Berwickshire, Scotland (where Catherine was born).
What were the details on that marriage as to his parents - did it name them as the pair you believe are his parents, William Turner and Mary Alsey
Cheers
AMBLY
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If he used his own name, British Library catalogue has
Renruth. A tale.
by Henry Turner (Novelist)
London, 1877
Grace. A novel.
Henry Turner (Novelist)
London, Edinburgh; Tinsley Brothers, 1879
I think Renruth was published by Samuel Tinsley, which may connect them
Though The Morning Post thought Grace was the author's first novel. It hated it, and gave it a terrible review! The heroine apparently lived in Kensington (as did your Henry Turner in 1881)
Renruth was not like by The Graphic!
Was it reprinted not long ago?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Renruth-Henry-Turner/dp/1151364355
Sorry if neither of these were written by the right Henry Turner!
John
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Renruth was not like by The Graphic!
Was it reprinted not long ago?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Renruth-Henry-Turner/dp/1151364355
If you scroll to the bottom of the page on the link it has this...
"Product description
About the Author
Originally from Baltimore, award-winning independent filmmaker and journalist Henry Turner now lives in Southern California. Ask the Dark is his first novel. Visit his website at www.askthedark.com. --This text refers to an alternate Paperback edition."
Annie
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Hi
Yes, I saw that. But an independent filmmaker now living in California didn't write a book in 1877. So I don't know what is going on there.
I don't think anyone knows who that novelist Henry Turner was. Maybe the book/books have some clues!
Does seem kind of unlikely that Renruth from 1877 would be reprinted, but who knows?
John
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I vaguely remember a book of pen-names but it may have contained only popular authors. Sorry, I can't remember the title. All I recall is that 1 writer wrote Westerns under about 10 pen-names.
Added. Wiki has a list but it's in alphabetical order of pen-name, arranged by 1st name.
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Yes, I saw that. But an independent filmmaker now living in California didn't write a book in 1877. So I don't know what is going on there.
I don't understand it either i.e. I didn't comment but thought it worth pointing out as it's a bit of a conundrum ;D
Annie
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Perhaps a hopeful sign? Contemporary review of Renruth
"contains some references to the Civil Service, which are probably based on experience"
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Thanks, everyone, for all that information.
Where was he in 1881?
77 Earls Court Road, Chelsea, London
1871 Marriage: to Catherine Wilson OSWALD took place in Mordington, Berwickshire, Scotland (where Catherine was born).
What were the details on that marriage as to his parents - did it name them as the pair you believe are his parents, William Turner and Mary Alsey
Yes.
Renruth .... Grace .... contains some references to the Civil Service
I think you've cracked it.
I did look up Wikipedia and found the one in California. Obviously the wrong person!
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Yes, I saw that. But an independent filmmaker now living in California didn't write a book in 1877. So I don't know what is going on there.
I don't understand it either i.e. I didn't comment but thought it worth pointing out as it's a bit of a conundrum ;D
Classic bit of disinformation - "Fact 1: Henry Turner is the author of Renruth and Grace .... Fact 2: there's a writer named Henry Turner from Baltimore living in California .... Fallacious deduction: therefore Henry Turner from Baltimore who lives in California is the author of Renruth and Grace".
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Here's the 1877 book.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kz4/
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Oh crikey,it's the Baltimore man again :(
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Hmmm. 'The Graphic' on 31 March 1877 reported receipt of Renruth by H Turner and Done in the Dark, author of Zoe's Brand etc.
I have found three reviews of Grace, one of which damns it with faint praise and the other two slate it with no holds barred. Haven't found any reviews of Renruth yet.
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Both are in the British Library, if you're really curious!
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After reading the reviews, I am not sure that I am curious enough to sit and read them in the BL reading rooms ;)
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Not getting far with his first marriage - I'm thinking Minnie must be a pet name, as there's no Minnie the right age b Honley area. There's a Minerva Earnshaw, but can follow her to 1871 with her second husband, so not her
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Yes, I was thinking the same thing. It's often short for Marion or Mary, but there are an awful lot of marriages of Henry Turners to Marys and Marions between 1851 and 1861 :( and a lot of deaths of Mary and Marion Turners between 1861 and 1871.
It's actually the Oswalds who are related to me so I can live with not knowing Minnie's full name.
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As Minnie/Mary/Marion was young 30 - 40 ish (if she died 1861 - 1871) that could eliminate some if not quite a few?
Annie
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Indeed. But ages are not included in FreeBMD until 1866, and even restricting results to London and Middlesex there are still dozens of them.
The GRO index has ages, but you can't restrict it by county - only by registration district.
There are no possibles in Marylebone, which is where they were in 1861. In Kensington there a one death of a Mary Ann Turner in 1864, but she was 29 so isn't old enough to be Henry's wife, who was already 29 in 1861. There is a 32-year-old Mary Turner in Islington in 1864, but without checking every death of a female Turner (since you can't search for Ma* on the GRO site) in every RD in London I can't be sure she is the only possible one.
Maybe if there is a really wild, wet and windy day when I really don't want to go outside I might attempt it ....
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How about Wilhelmina for Minnie? There'll be fewer to trawl through.
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There would indeed. Good suggestion. I'll add Wilhelmina to the names to be trawled if I get that far. As I've said, it's the Oswald ladies who are really of interest to me, and it won't be the end of the world if I never find out what he full name was.
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Hello
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I just came across this and can add a few details regarding Henry Turner's family. His brother (my 3rd great grandfather) was William Alsey Turner, born 1828 in Bolton Lancashire, died 1888 in London. I have found William Alsey Turner in the 1841 census with his parents William and Mary (nee Alsey) where his father's occupation is recorded as Dock Police. Also in the record is Mary Turner's mother, Mary Alsey (possibly nee Lloyd). Interestingly Henry does not appear in this record - perhaps he was with an aunt or another grandparent? I would love to locate him to see if it casts any light on other relatives. Also I think there is an error in the 1841 record as William Alsey Turner is noted as being born in Middlesex but he was actually born in Little Bolton, Lancashire. In his birth record (1828) his father is recorded as being a book-keeper.
Both brothers (Henry and William Alsey) appear together with their mother in the 1851 census - by which time it appears their father has died. Interestingly on William Alsey Turner's marriage certificate (from 1856) it says his father was a Captain in the Army (Deceased). So he progressed from book-keeper to Dock Police then Army Officer (or Army Officer to Dock Police).
Willliam Alsey Turner started out as a wine clerk, went to South Africa met his wife and then on his return to the UK went into the Army himself, eventually retiring with the rank of honorary Major.
I have yet to identify any more details on his father or mother but am still looking.
If anyone has any other information I would love to hear about it.
James
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Sorry l haven't heard of the writer but l thought and maybe wrong that Minnie was pet name for Martha
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l thought and maybe wrong that Minnie was pet name for Martha
It could be, but it is not exclusively a pet name for Martha - it is used for quite a range of names.
See https://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=minnie - but that isn't comprehensive because I know of Marions who were also called Minnie.
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Thanks for this, James.
Where were they in the 1841 and 1851 census? I have Henry in the 1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses, but not the earlier ones.
I know you said that Henry wasn't with his parents in the 1841 but if I knew where they were it might help to find him.
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Hi
I found Alsey Turner (I assume this is William Alsey Turner) living with his father William Turner, mother Mary Turner and (I assume) grandmother Mary Alsey at Middlesex, Stepney, Mile End Old Town Lower, District 13 on the 1841 census. It says Alsey was born in the same county but I assume this was a typo.
I then found William A Turner living with his mother (widowed, so father was dead by then) and his brother Henry at Surrey, Lambeth, Lambeth Church First 28 (Hercules buildings) in the 1851 census. William A is shown as a clerk in the wine trade and Henry as a clerk stockbroker. William A is shown as being born in Bolton and Henry in Manchester which ties in. Also I know William Alsey Turner went to South Africa a year or two later (wine-trade related?) and met his wife there.
James
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Google Books has Renruth (https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Renruth_A_Tale/19sBAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1) digitised, it can be read online for free :)
There's a positive review featured in the Kent & Sussex Courier (March 1877):
It is apparently by a new writer. The Author lays no claim to having written it with any other intention than simply to amuse, but whether consciously or unconsciously, where a man has teaching in him, it must come out, and we see this here, not only in the implied rebukes to those who encourage the modern passion for speculation which run through the book, but in more direct and more explicit language.
Near the close of Chapter VIII we have a conversation reminding us pleasantly of Arthur Helps's "Friends in Council." Philip Vaughan gives Harry Renruth his ideas on Monotone —or, as we should say in ordinary talk, monotony, and in those few pages Mr Turner shows not only that he has grasped a truth, but the great facility he has in choosing apt illustrations for enforcing it. The second test is that the characters, &c., should be drawn from experience (except in the instances we have noted where the imagination only is brought into play).
The novel under review answers this fairly well. We can picture to ourselves the character of Skelton, and realize it until we get to his extraordinary metamorphosis in the middle of a death struggle on the pier at Boulogne. We can see Maud, and watch her growing sadness, as though she lived among us. It is entirely natural.
But the description of such places as the Stock Exchange where our Author shows himself most at home. We must find room for one quotation in illustration of his power of concentration into a few lines a great deal of true description, and to show that his sarcasm is neither vulgar nor unjust:
"I am going to the 'Cedars' today till Monday," said Harry. "By the by, as you are on recess today, come with me, and I will show you the interior of the Temple of Mammon, where the real work of this world is done, and were millions are made and lost in a single year—where we do something else but read the Times and lay odds on the forthcoming race."
"Verily," replied Philip, "thou speakest as one devoid of understanding. Dost thou compare thy games of chance, where one man promises to buy what he doesn't want, and never intends to purchase, of another man who hasn't got it to sell, and never will have it, and then both get rid of the whole transaction by one paying the other what is called a difference! No, in our halls (Civil Service) the whole business of the State is transacted, and toiling thousands are occupied from 'morn till dewy eve' in guarding and watching thy interests, and seeing that thou art not defrauded of the value of farthing!"
Among the many pleasant pages in Mr Turner's book, none are more delightful than those where without dragging his reading into prominence, he can't help exhibiting it, and Shakespeare, Byron, Bulwer, and Tennyson are quoted with a natural ease the very opposite of display. It is curious too, to notice the writer's incidental reference to rising men. He can talk not only of a Millais in Art, but he has discovered the genius of Burrel Smith, whose charming watercolors deserve to more widely known.
It will be strange if the modest story of Renruth is not found on many bookshelves—and no one need regret the time spent in reading it.
A Critical Dictionary of English Literature, and British and American Authors, Living and Deceased, Volume 5 - By Samuel Austin Allibone (1892):
Turner, Henry
1. Renruth: a tale. London 1877
2. Grace: a novel. London 1879
Two further titles-
In August 1880, the Jedburgh Gazette acquired publishing rights to Henry's next book - "The Deloraines: A Tale of the Borders", described as a "new and original local tale":
From the ability of the authour, as warmly acknowledged by the London press, from his connection with the Borders, and our perusal of the whole work, we are able to state that this tale will be found to surpass in local interest anything that has hitherto appeared in our fiction columns.
The article ends with a selection of positive press quotes RE: his previous book Grace. The chapters of The Deloraines were published in the Jedburgh Gazette over the following months.
Advert in Reynolds's Newspaper (December 1881):
BOW BELLS ANNUAL FOR 1881-1882
With Numerous engravings by eminent artists, and contributions by the best writers.
My Story by Henry Turner
The newspapers note that Henry takes inspiration from actual people (dead and alive) for his characters. Perhaps you'll find some clues in Renruth :)