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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: newmodernist on Monday 16 October 17 18:26 BST (UK)

Title: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: newmodernist on Monday 16 October 17 18:26 BST (UK)
So I think I may be at a dead end, but perhaps one of you lovely people can come up with something I haven't thought of.

The man in question is James Thomas. 

According to his tombstone - he was born on May 25th 1853, and according to various census' he was born in Cardiff Wales.

He married Jane Arthur Fry on the 12 Feb 1878 in Barnstaple, Devon, and they as a family moved back to Wales where he appears with Jane and some kids in Aberavon in 1881. 

The family arrived in Canada in May of 1886 on a ship called the Corian - they moved to Hamilton, Ontario, Canada where James continued his trade as a bootmaker until such time as something happened to have him committed to an asylum where he spent the rest of his life (while his wife claimed on census' that she was a widow)

He passed away on the 17th of December 1923.

I applied to receive his birth certificate, but GRO couldn't find it.  So is this as far as I can go?  Are there any records that might help my search for his parents along?  I would've assumed with a birthdate I'd have more luck, but nope!


* I should note I'm making my way over to Canada at christmas, so I'm going to try to get a hold of the asylum records which may hold some answers, but that'd be my last hope!
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather
Post by: sgf28 on Monday 16 October 17 18:33 BST (UK)
Marriage details give father's name:

12th February 1878 Parish Church Ilfracombe

James Thomas, full age, bachelor, bootmaker. Residence:Neath, Wales. Father:John Thomas, dry salter

Jane Arthur Fry, full age, spinster, Ilfracombe. Father: Thomas Fry, master mariner

Witnesses:Thomas John and Ida Fry
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: newmodernist on Monday 16 October 17 18:36 BST (UK)
Awesome - now I just need to find a John Thomas (dry salter) somewhere!
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 16 October 17 19:00 BST (UK)
 ??? Have I looked at this family before?

The only John Thomas family that stands a chance possibly is this 1861 family:-

John Thomas 40 occ Drysalter b Plymouth ( A plate layer in 1871)?
Maria 38 b Trowbridge
JOHN 8 b Cardiff ( pob of James in 1881)
Margaret 5 b Trowbridge
Residing at Small Street, Bristol
Census ref RG09/1737/100/20
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: newmodernist on Monday 16 October 17 19:06 BST (UK)
I was looking at this one in 1861 in Cardiff, just because James was a bootmaker, and here John was...

John Thomas   30
Mary Thomas   32
John Thomas   6
James Thomas   5
Henry Thomas   3
Mary Thomas   1

But that would make James 3 years too young - and that seems like a lot.
As for looking at this family before, perhaps??  I've been working on this for a while, so I may have asked questions about James before!


??? Have I looked at this family before?

The only John Thomas family that stands a chance possibly is this 1861 family:-

John Thomas 40 occ Drysalter b Plymouth ( A plate layer in 1871)?
Maria 38 b Trowbridge
JOHN 8 b Cardiff ( pob of James in 1881)
Margaret 5 b Trowbridge
Residing at Small Street, Bristol
Census ref RG09/1737/100/20
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: newmodernist on Monday 16 October 17 19:15 BST (UK)

JOHN 8 b Cardiff ( pob of James in 1881)

what does pob mean?
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 16 October 17 19:20 BST (UK)

JOHN 8 b Cardiff ( pob of James in 1881)

what does pob mean?

 :) Place of birth
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: sgf28 on Monday 16 October 17 19:40 BST (UK)
'keyboard86
John Thomas 40 occ Drysalter b Plymouth ( A plate layer in 1871)?
Maria 38 b Trowbridge
JOHN 8 b Cardiff ( pob of James in 1881)
Margaret 5 b Trowbridge
Residing at Small Street, Bristol
Census ref RG09/1737/100/20
Keyboard86'

Maybe this is a possibility for James :-\

John James Thomas mmn Alford GRO Ref: J qtr 1852 Cardiff Vol: 11a Pg:213

And Margaret :-\

Margaret Maria Thomas mmn Alford GRO Ref:S qtr 1854 Melksham Vol:05a Pg:112



Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: sgf28 on Monday 16 October 17 19:44 BST (UK)
Marriage:

2nd April 1850 St Mary the Virgin, Cardiff

John Thomas, full age, bachelor, labourer.Father:John Thomas, labourer

Maria Alford, full age, spinster. Father:King? Alford, labourer

Witnesses:George and Harriet Lowther

John and Maria's residence:St Mary Street
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 16 October 17 19:47 BST (UK)
The 1852 birth looks good, but gravestone reads 25th May 1853 ( Same qtr of birth, wrong year)
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: newmodernist on Monday 16 October 17 19:52 BST (UK)
I've started a tree for the John (James?) Thomas whos parents were John and Maria - I'm working on the Alford line right now because it's easier to go from than the Thomas' (of which there are many) I'm hoping with enough I'll come across a name that holds a DNA connection for me.

Yes, his gravestone certainly says 1853
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=169361532&ref=acom
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: isobelw on Monday 16 October 17 20:01 BST (UK)
It is not unusual for dates to be wrong on gravestones, particularly the year of birth.
Isobel
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 16 October 17 20:52 BST (UK)
Hi again, if you are looking for John Thomas and Maria in 1851 they are in seperate households, Maria Thomas 30 Married b Trowbridge is with parents King Alford 55 b Beckingham and Maria 54 b Trowbridge, plus other Alford siblings
Census ref HO107/1840/366/58
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Dead End with my great-great grandfather James Thomas
Post by: newmodernist on Tuesday 17 October 17 07:57 BST (UK)
I've got a good (separate) tree going now for John and Maria!  All I have to do is somehow prove that John Thomas (1852/53) was actually James Thomas...as I said, I'm hoping building the tree will lead me to someone I have a genetic connection with to be sure!