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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: rhgarmstrong on Thursday 05 October 17 19:39 BST (UK)
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My Father was born in 1925 at 262 Victoria Park Road, Hackney London
This address appears to have been a Home for unmarried mothers?
I have a birth Certificate which shows a married Mother and Father.
But as the birth place was for unmarried mothers there must be a possibility that he might have been adopted and that the Certificate that I have may not be his original Certificate
The 1926 Adoption Act which came into effect in 1927 this was the first Act legalising adoptions. Prior to that children were just handed over with mainly a verbal agreement and at best, a declaration setting out the child’s change of identity
Is there any way I can find out if indeed he was adopted. He died in 1980
I have my fingers crossed that you will be able to help or suggest where else I
can try
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I've seen a birth certificate which shows a married mother and father but she was a single lady.
Could you give the mother and father names from the birth certificate to see if we can find anything about them? Safe to post their names as they will have passed on by now.
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Thanks for your interest
That is very interesting, I had similar thoughts
The father is given as John William Scott and the Mother as Eva Louise Scott (formerly Chapman)
both of 85, Albert Street, St Pancras
I can not find any Marriage Documentation for their marriage
I can see JWF on the Electoral Roll at 85 Albert Street but not her - perhaps femails were not included
I have plenty documentation on ELS(C) but not JWF although he could have moved to Ireland although family heresay suggests he came from Aberdeen !!
Looking forward to seeing what you might come up with
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Not finding as much as you I'm afraid - I take it he was an only child and did you know these people as your grandparents at all?
I have plenty documentation on ELS(C)
What have you got?
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What about the 1939 register, can you find father or mother or child on there?
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Very grateful for your help
I will have to respond to your questions tomorrow evening
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I vaguely knew my Grandmother Eval Louise Scott (nee Chapman) but I did not know my Grandfather John William Scott.
My Father was an only Child
My Grandmother married 'again' in 1940 and on that marriage certificate she described herself as a widow.
The Electoral Rolls from 1937 show her living at the same address as the gentleman she subsequently married
So I surmise that John William Scott died between 1925-1937
I was tempted to think that JWT never existed and was a Birth Certificate convenience, but he does appear on the Electoral Roll of 1925 at 85 Albert Street St Pancras
Were they ever Married? I can't find any proof whatsoever
If the were, why was my Father born in a Home for Unmarried Mothers?
Did my Grandparents adopt my Father at birth? and the Certificate I have is in fact a second Birth Certificate?
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My Father was born in 1925 at 262 Victoria Park Road, Hackney London
This address appears to have been a Home for unmarried mothers?
This link suggests the address was a Nursing home
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kub/
Have you looked at the 1939 register to see what the address was being used as then, the occupants may give a clue.
I thought that birth certificates for 'adopted' children were marked as such. :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=602018.msg4515957#msg4515957
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I would have thought that in 1925 a child of an unmarried mother was more likely to have been born in the workhouse hospital.
I can see JWF on the Electoral Roll at 85 Albert Street but not her - perhaps femails were not included
Most women did not get the vote at this time so she would not appear on an electoral register
http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/electionsvoting/womenvote/overview/thevote/
I see that he is entered as William John Scott on that register
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In your opening post, you mention you have a 'copy' of a birth certificate.
When was that certificate issued?
If it was issued at the time of the birth registration, it would not record a later adoption.
If the certificate was issued years after the birth by at least 21 years and is still not annotated on the right hand side that an adoption has been recorded, then it could be safe to assume he wasn't adopted.
To be sure, you could order a copy now from the General Register Office and see what the certificate contains.
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I understand that Certificates were marked 'Adopted' only after the Adoption Act 1926, which came into effect in 1927 - My Father was born in 1925
262 Victoria Park Road may well have been a Nursing Home in 1965 as indeed it still is. But in 1925 it was a Home for Unmarried Mothers
If only I could find a Marriage Certificate or similar for William John Scott (or John William) and Eva Louise Chapman or even find out where Eva was between the 1911 Census and 1925
all would be
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Adoption seems likely to be a red herring, given that the child stayed with Eva who is documented on his birth certificate as his mother. Adoption does not lead to the falsification of birth details.
The question really seems to be: did Eva Louise Chapman ever marry John William/William John Scott, who is named as the father of her son born in 1925 and to whom she claimed to be married?
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Have you got Eva's birthplace and birthdate? Where have you found her in 1911 and 1939?
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Eva Louise Dyer Chapman was born on 2nd January 1904 in Alton Hampshire
She was a twin
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Eva Louise Dyer Chapman was born on 2nd January 1904 in Alton Hampshire
She was a twin
Have you looked on the 1939 Register - free to search
I can find her twin sister Alma's details using their dob - there are a number of persons named Eva
that show with that dob but none with surname Chapman/Scott
Hornchurch U.D., Essex
Alma R Moore 1904
Percival T Moore
and 1 other person on this record
died Sep 1977 MOORE ALMA ROSINA born 2 JA 1904
edit ~ didn't notice that millipede had asked same question sorry
What about the 1939 register, can you find father or mother or child on there?
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Was her 1940 marriage to Wilfred Edwards in Surrey?
Death as Eva Louise Edwards (born 2 Jan 1904) in Truro in 1991?
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Yes it looks as though she lived with Wilfred Edwards in Banstead, Surrey before their 1940 marriage.
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For reference
In other cases, a child born in 1925/1926 before the Adoption Act could have been adopted after 1927 but before the age of 21 by the man who the mother subsequently married.
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But in 1925 it was a Home for Unmarried Mothers
Is it clear it's a home for unmarried mothers & not a mother & baby home.
There were many in & around the capital often called lying in homes.
These were places where mothers could go prior to birth in order to give birth safely.
These facilities were in response to the high child mortality rates in poorer areas.
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262 Victoria Park Road may well have been a Nursing Home in 1965 as indeed it still is. But in 1925 it was a Home for Unmarried Mothers
Does your evidence for it being an unmarried mothers home in 1925 give any details as to who was running it at that time. :-\
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262 Victoria Park Road may well have been a Nursing Home in 1965 as indeed it still is. But in 1925 it was a Home for Unmarried Mothers
Does your evidence for it being an unmarried mothers home in 1925 give any details as to who was running it at that time. :-\
I don't know who ran the Home although I think it may well have been called St Margaret's.
More than likely some kind of religious connection I would have thought
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For reference
In other cases, a child born in 1925/1926 before the Adoption Act could have been adopted after 1927 but before the age of 21 by the man who the mother subsequently married.
Yes you have the correct '2nd' husband and address
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Yes it looks as though she lived with Wilfred Edwards in Banstead, Surrey before their 1940 marriage.
Yes your research is correct
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Have you got Eva's birthplace and birthdate? Where have you found her in 1911 and 1939?
You could well be correct re Red Herring
For your information - although family folklore says that William John Scott (or JWS)
was a Scot from Aberdeen
I found him in Belfast for certain from 1929-1931
One thought - In the 1911 census in the same house in Petersfield, Hampshire was a 'Visitor'
who was in the Army. I wonder if WJS could also have been a similar 'Visitor' in later years?
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For your information - although family folklore says that William John Scott (or JWS)
was a Scot from Aberdeen
I found him in Belfast for certain from 1929-1931
One thought - In the 1911 census in the same house in Petersfield, Hampshire was a 'Visitor'
who was in the Army. I wonder if WJS could also have been a similar 'Visitor' in later years?
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Going back to the original topic about the actual home.
There are a few topics on Rootschat about births there and subsequent adoptions.
including this of a child whose parents were married at the time of conception.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=435225.msg4149503#msg4149503
Internet searching suggests that this was a mother & baby home as well as a nursing home for geriatric patients.
It was privately run and no records exist.
A report on the Wellcome Library site
http://wellcomelibrary.org/moh/report/b19885957/57#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=57&z=-0.514%2C0.5277%2C1.9218%2C0.7502
states that at a much later date, there were only 2 maternity beds, the rest for the chronically sick.
The address is easily found on the 1939 register.
It is hard to establish what relationships were and the scenarios causing the names to be listed there but there were a couple of young single women and interestingly a number of redacted lines but 2 unredacted were shown as later adoptions.
In the days before the welfare state, I would imagine a nursing home approached by someone willing to pay for their confinement might be a better option for the mother than entering the workhouse or maybe a difficult or untimely labour urgently required the assistance of those at the address.
George Oliver & Emma Walker Eldridge, the proprietors, were there from 1934 according to the electoral registers with Mrs Eldridge being a State Registered Nurse and Certified Midwife still listed in the 1960's.
After 1948 but before the 1960's, the Eldridge's might have turned the address into more of a maternity home for unmarried mothers possibly receiving their funding for this service from the state. The lack of records doesn't prove or disprove this suggestion. Maybe they were also receiving fees for their adoption services.
Other internet searches reveal that Hackney Social Services are unable to help further.
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That really interesting and useful. It looks to have been a very small Home
I am intrigued why in 1925 someone would have a child in Hackney when they were reportedly living in St Pancras. Although not a vast distance, still a fair way away
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maybe they were visiting and the baby started to come early?
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Was her 1940 marriage to Wilfred Edwards in Surrey?
Death as Eva Louise Edwards (born 2 Jan 1904) in Truro in 1991?
I note her year of birth is 1901 on the 1939 census. She could of course have added her few years on to appear closer in age to Wilfred, b 1895
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Could we please stick to seeing if anyone can find a Marriage between William John Scott (or JWS) and Eva Louise Chapman circa 1925 or particular knowledge of 262 Victoria Park Road Hackney circa 1925
References to the 1939 Census seem a little off the point. The blank period is between 1911 and 1937
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262, Victoria Park Road. Hackney ,
May 1907.
this tells you what size it was :)
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I was googling about and found a tree :)
I had entered 262, Victoria park road , Hackney. 1925.
there was a birth Dennis John SCOTT born 1st March 1925, at that address ?
sorry my eye's are getting tired and my brain is malfunctioning ??? ::)
is this the same guy We are chasing to see if He was adopted or not ???
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Could we please stick to seeing if anyone can find a Marriage between William John Scott (or JWS) and Eva Louise Chapman circa 1925
I don't think there was one to find.
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Could we please stick to seeing if anyone can find a Marriage between William John Scott (or JWS) and Eva Louise Chapman circa 1925
I don't think there was one to find.
Unfortunately I think you are right.
I had hoped that we might have unearthed something on William John Scott but thanks
for trying anyway
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I was googling about and found a tree :)
I had entered 262, Victoria park road , Hackney. 1925.
there was a birth Dennis John SCOTT born 1st March 1925, at that address ?
sorry my eye's are getting tired and my brain is malfunctioning ??? ::)
is this the same guy We are chasing to see if He was adopted or not ???
Yes correct person
The Tree you have discovered could well be my own !!!
But interestingly the christian name is misspelled Dennis should be Denis
Any chance you could post a link to your find
Many thanks for spending time on this, I am most grateful
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There may be a marriage to find just outside of England & Wales or Scotland where the indexes are online.
Marriages in Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands don't appear in the GRO index nor do marriages abroad unless registered with the local consulate.
There is also a slim chance they married in church and the vicar was late getting the returns to the local registrar so that too would be missing from the GRO index. I am aware of a marriage in 2007 where this has happened.
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It may turn out that Mr Scott was already married, so they could not legally marry.
Anyways, I realize you are only looking for the marriage, but I wanted to point out that on another forum back in 2011, someone was searching for the exact scenario (as in, 262 Victoria Park Dr for a birth in 01 Mar 1925, parents living at 85 Albert St). If this wasn't you, I can dig the link out of my history so you can try to connect with this person.... maybe they found the answers to your mystery.
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It may turn out that Mr Scott was already married, so they could not legally marry.
Anyways, I realize you are only looking for the marriage, but I wanted to point out that on another forum back in 2011, someone was searching for the exact scenario (as in, 262 Victoria Park Dr for a birth in 01 Mar 1925, parents living at 85 Albert St). If this wasn't you, I can dig the link out of my history so you can try to connect with this person.... maybe they found the answers to your mystery.
Could well have been me, but perhaps you could dig out the link just in case
Thanks for your interest and help
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Not sure if the poster is still around that forum, but you gotta turn over every stone!
https://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/71315-Born-several-miles-away-from-family-home
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Not sure if the poster is still around that forum, but you gotta turn over every stone!
https://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/71315-Born-several-miles-away-from-family-home
Yep that was me via an interested researcher. Thanks anyway, worth a look
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https://www.myheritage.com/names/colin_scott
the link you asked for .
Eilleen.
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I was born in St Margarets in Feb 1962, I actually live in Victoria Park road now, right near the sight of the hostel. I have been trying to find out information about it, but to no avail really. Hackney council had my birth records, I had to have an interview etc beforehand. My adoption papers made it quite clear my birth mother didn't want me to ever contact her and that was fine, as I am truly truly blessed with the family that adopted me. I really just wanted to find out a bit about the hostel as it all seems so shrouded in secrecy.
I should have asked my Mum more when she was alive and she would have happily told me. I think so anyway.
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I only found out in June of this year that I was adopted while I was a tiny baby in 1946. I was born at 262 Victoria Park Road which I now know to be St. Margaret's Home. I only have my mother's name but she lived in the same area of the town that my dad grew up in. Because my dad (I think of my adoptive parents as my Mum and Dad, and call my biological parents my Mother and Father) was named as the adoptive parent I hoped he may be my real dad. However I have yet to see my adoption file but going by what I have read it may well not have much in it.I am wondering how much anyone has found out about this place as it seems to have been erased from history.
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I was born there too in 1962 I agree there is not a lot written about it at all. I am also in touch with a lovely lady who was born there a few weeks after me, her name is Karen Brazil and she has written a wonderful book about her adoption from there.
Unbelievably, I still live in Victoria Park Road And St Margarets is no longer there, but one thing am pretty sure of is that it was a Nursing home for the terminally ill, but that there were just 2 beds used for mothers to have their babies there (Paid privately for) and then to have them adopted. And that these were private adoptions. That’s why the files are so small. I think mostly unmarried mothers from Ireland.
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Amazingly too, I lived in Hackney for 20 years and the last 11 years at London Fields and knew Victoria Park Road well! Discovering I was adopted at my age (73) was a big shock for me. My adoptive parents were great but I had no idea whatsoever that I was not their biological daughter. I am waiting on my support worker to get the court file of my adoption but not expecting very much. You would really think that there would be more info out there about that place.
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Would be interested in the book you mentioned. What the title please?
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Hello,
I wonder if anyone can help me, I am writing an article about mother and baby homes/ unmarried mother homes for my university coursework. This is a subject which interests me very much.
I am hoping for people to contact me with stories and information i can include in my article.
Please help, best wishes,
Lauren
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For a good insight, try the Salvation Army. There are some good reference links in the link below.
http://http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/HackneyMothersSA/?LMCL=t_f0aF
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Still looking for answers about 262 Victoria Park Road but everywhere I inquire there is nothing to find. That is the same for my adoption records, absolutely nothing can be found. I realise I will never discover my birth circumstances, interestingly it appears the late Jeremy Beadle was born at St Margaret's aka 262 Victoria Park Road. If anyone has found anything more about this place please share. Thank you.
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I was also born there in 1965
my mother was a young nurse from
Port Talbot. On my original birth certificate it had her name and address . This was back in the nineties that I rang the phone number I got from directory enquires and my grandmother picked up the phone , it never went any further. There is a terrace house
now at 262
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Im interested in how DNA helps people identity their parents
We found out that my grandmother s birth father was of European Jewish origin so assumed the circumstances were for religious differences
Am helping one adoptee who has dna link to me
She worked out where her birth mother came from and we.ve narrowed down birth father to child of one of my grandfathers brothers...so I can tell her something about the circumstances of their grandparents was a Scottish family of ten their parents died young and some of them took the offers of cheap passages to USA .
If a birth family can be identified knowing profession. religion .location number of siblings etc can help make suppositions about reasons for adoption .
Have any of you had success with -? .
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First time on this site.
I was born in 1960's in Hackney London. I have my birth certificate and a note that states that i was born at 262 Victoria park road and the Matron was Mrs E W Eldridge. My mum was a nurse from Aberdeenshire.
My mum died last year and during all this time I never asked who my father was.
I am looking for the following information as i am travelling to london in November.
I would like to go to the site if it still exists and visit my birth place.
I have found out that my mum was going to put me up for adoption but after i was born she decided against that and my Granny took the train down to london and took us home.
I have a lot of the puzzle to find out, is it a hospital or a home, Did she travel down before i was born or was she working in London at the time- I have read on some sites that sometimes there is a "girls statement" which includes the fathers name, how would i find this if available?
Any replies would be much appreciated
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Hello all,
I as born at St Margaret’s in 1948; I was given to my parents two weeks after my birth, the court order went through five months later. My birth Mother was not allowed to name me so a big clue is the child’s forenames were given by adopting parents. I have a birth certificate registered at St Margaret’s with my natural mother’s surname and another after the court case with my parents surname. Both certificates have the same forenames. I have a friend a few months older than me and her certificates are the same. I acquired my birth certificate 1978 after the law changed. The social worker had no information at all as it was a private adoption. St Margaret’s had just the two beds for paying unmarried Mothers, a sideline to the nursing home. I have had a successful relationship with my maternal family and aged 69 I found my father by DNA search.Never give up the answers are out there somewhere. Good luck.