RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Foxy234 on Wednesday 04 October 17 17:29 BST (UK)
-
Please would anyone be able to provide any information on John Austen (possibly Sir) born 1418 in Wingham, Kent d 1471, I believe he married Isabel Willoughby around 1449. I have setup a family tree and have traced a line of Austens up to Elizabeth Austen b 1642 Wye, Kent who married John Kennit (b 1620) in 1664 but wasn't sure if I have traced correctly ?
Any help would be much appreciated :)
-
I have Austen/in in my tree most of mine come from around Alkham Kent. Do you have any in your tree from that area. Unfortunately I have not got that far back with my line yet.
regards
Panda
-
Don't know if this will be of any help to you. :)
https://www.geni.com/people/John-Austen/6000000015733601182
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Austin-4806
http://www.airgale.com.au/austin2/d1.htm
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LRAHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=john+austin+wingham&source=bl&ots=RZUib_3Mn0&sig=E4mvcfkzZrqTa8XaGh0pOsZkaTY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj82sXl5NvWAhVCY1AKHXjODJ8Q6AEITzAI#v=onepage&q=john%20austin%20wingham&f=false
-
Just read your question re John Austin ... I have just come across the same anomaly in my research!
On my Mother's Grandfather's side of the family, I have 'documented' links to Matthew Austin b 1562, and I am happy with the research back to a Henry Austen b 1330.
However, I am unsure about John Austen (of Wingham, Kent) being married to a 'posh' lady, Isabel Willoughby (of Woollaton, Notts). This does not seem likely, given the class and geographical divide!
Most sources have Isabel married to a Philip Boteler (of Wootton Woodhall, which I believe was a manor house in Watton by Stone, Herts). However, Geni sugggests that this was a second marriage or that Austen was Isabel's maiden name, which excludes her being a Willougby. Also, there seems to be a link provided in Family Search, Pedigree Resource Files, in three separate names, all of which have John married to Isabel Willoughby, although they may all have copied one of the others!
All very sad, because if it was Isabel Willougby then via links with the Freville family take us back to Henry 1 and William the Conqeror.
The only way of positively disproving the marriage would be if there was a definitive record of John marrying a different Isabel.
Not sure this helps, but I would be interested in where you are in the Austen family tree. I get there via, Hawkins, Hubbard, Curtis, Lewis and Henry Nash who married Mary Austen b 1688.
-
Hi all
Just seen this whilst I was posting something else and got very excited. Elizabeth Austen and John Kennett/Kenitt are my direct ancestors. I have a lot of info on the Austens in Wye and Adisham as they are also connected to my Denne and Nethersole ancestors.
I'll post more details tomorrow but I'd love to hear more from others.
matt
-
Just read your question re John Austin ... I have just come across the same anomaly in my research!
On my Mother's Grandfather's side of the family, I have 'documented' links to Matthew Austin b 1562, and I am happy with the research back to a Henry Austen b 1330.
However, I am unsure about John Austen (of Wingham, Kent) being married to a 'posh' lady, Isabel Willoughby (of Woollaton, Notts). This does not seem likely, given the class and geographical divide!
Most sources have Isabel married to a Philip Boteler (of Wootton Woodhall, which I believe was a manor house in Watton by Stone, Herts). However, Geni sugggests that this was a second marriage or that Austen was Isabel's maiden name, which excludes her being a Willougby. Also, there seems to be a link provided in Family Search, Pedigree Resource Files, in three separate names, all of which have John married to Isabel Willoughby, although they may all have copied one of the others!
All very sad, because if it was Isabel Willougby then via links with the Freville family take us back to Henry 1 and William the Conqeror.
The only way of positively disproving the marriage would be if there was a definitive record of John marrying a different Isabel.
Not sure this helps, but I would be interested in where you are in the Austen family tree. I get there via, Hawkins, Hubbard, Curtis, Lewis and Henry Nash who married Mary Austen b 1688.
Hiya
I think I might be able to solve the problem here. I think the Austens in Wingham are related to the Austens of Adisham who were related to my Nethersole ancestors in Adisham and Kingstone.
Interestingly the Austens in Adisham appear to have a connection to Wye as well as I have found references to Wye in their Wills. There is also a connection between my Gibb ancestors from Wye and the Austens in Adisham.
I don't know about the line back to 1330 as the earliest I've got with the Austens is about 1500 but I'd say that I'm not back beyond 1580 with certainty. I will go through my notes tomorrow and update you.
The problem for me is that the Austens appear to be connected with so many branches of my Kent ancestors: the Gibbs, the Kennetts (related by marriage to the Gibbs too!), the Nethersoles, the Dennes, and others.
It's a good job they left so many detailed Wills!
Update to follow soon....
Matt
-
There is a will of Richard Austyn, of Wingham, made in 1464.
PRC/17/1/98a
Also one of Thomas Austen, of Preston next Wingham, probate 1471.
PRC/33/56
And Robert Austen, of Wickhambreaux, made and probate 1487
PRC/17/4/133a
https://wills.canterbury-cathedral.org
-
There is a will of Richard Austyn, of Wingham, made in 1464.
PRC/17/1/98a
Also one of Thomas Austen, of Preston next Wingham, probate 1471.
PRC/33/56
And Robert Austen, of Wickhambreaux, made and probate 1487
PRC/17/4/133a
https://wills.canterbury-cathedral.org
Thanks for those I will add these to my list of Austen Wills. I also know there is a 1483 Will for Joane Austen of Adisham however I haven't looked at this yet.
More to follow.
matt
-
Hi Matt
I also share the Dennes, as I have Richard Austin b 1512 married to Agnes Denne b 1518.
I have uncorroborated links back to Robert Deene b circa 1000, in a reasonable chain ie no serious anomalies.
Regards, John
-
The Visitation of Kent 1619 takes the Denne family back to the time of King John. Before that, and especially pre-Conquest, I would be more sceptical.
https://archive.org/stream/visitationofkent00camd#page/98/mode/2up
-
Hi Matt
I also share the Dennes, as I have Richard Austin b 1512 married to Agnes Denne b 1518.
I have uncorroborated links back to Robert Deene b circa 1000, in a reasonable chain ie no serious anomalies.
Regards, John
Hi John
Richard Austen and Agnes Denne feature in my tree, Agnes is the sister of my ancestor.
I don't have my notes on these families to hand so I will update this post later.
Matt
-
The Visitation of Kent 1619 takes the Denne family back to the time of King John. Before that, and especially pre-Conquest, I would be more sceptical.
https://archive.org/stream/visitationofkent00camd#page/98/mode/2up
I have a copy of this and agree with you about being sceptical about any line prior to this. I have some notes which claim the line goes back further, but the further back I go the more evidence I like to get - and as you can probably guess, the further back I go the harder it is to find it.
The earliest I am convinced of is Walter Denne (Walterus de Denne) [29 Hen 3], although I have not had any reason to doubt his parentage either.
Matt
-
Just read your question re John Austin ... I have just come across the same anomaly in my research!
On my Mother's Grandfather's side of the family, I have 'documented' links to Matthew Austin b 1562, and I am happy with the research back to a Henry Austen b 1330.
However, I am unsure about John Austen (of Wingham, Kent) being married to a 'posh' lady, Isabel Willoughby (of Woollaton, Notts). This does not seem likely, given the class and geographical divide!
Most sources have Isabel married to a Philip Boteler (of Wootton Woodhall, which I believe was a manor house in Watton by Stone, Herts). However, Geni sugggests that this was a second marriage or that Austen was Isabel's maiden name, which excludes her being a Willougby. Also, there seems to be a link provided in Family Search, Pedigree Resource Files, in three separate names, all of which have John married to Isabel Willoughby, although they may all have copied one of the others!
All very sad, because if it was Isabel Willougby then via links with the Freville family take us back to Henry 1 and William the Conqeror.
The only way of positively disproving the marriage would be if there was a definitive record of John marrying a different Isabel.
Not sure this helps, but I would be interested in where you are in the Austen family tree. I get there via, Hawkins, Hubbard, Curtis, Lewis and Henry Nash who married Mary Austen b 1688.
Hiya
How did you get back to Henry Austen b 1330? How certain are you of anything past him? I'd be interested to see any kind of tree you have linking Henry (1330) to the later Austens.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Matt
-
Hi,
Thanks for your information so far :)
I get to the Austen family via Fox, Walker then John Kennett who married Elizabeth Austen, do you have the same father for Elizabeth Austen? I currently have Valentine Austen born 1595. I agree that further proof is needed that John Austen definitely married Isabel Willoughby
-
Hi,
Thanks for your information so far :)
I get to the Austen family via Fox, Walker then John Kennett who married Elizabeth Austen, do you have the same father for Elizabeth Austen? I currently have Valentine Austen born 1595. I agree that further proof is needed that John Austen definitely married Isabel Willoughby
Hiya
Elizabeth Austen and John Kennett are my ancestors and so is Valentine Austen. The Austens also crop up connected to my Denne ancestors and Gibbes ancestors. In fact they crop up a lot!
PM me your email address and I will send you a tree. I will post an update here as well, hopefully in the next few days.
Matt
-
Hi Matt
We may share some ancestors, but have different paths to get there!
My earliest Austen was Mary b 1688 who married into the Nash side of my family. I have her father as Roger Austen b 1672 who married a Margaret Franklyn b 1665. This link got me quite excited at the time as it went back to Edward 1, but again there was a 'class' and geographic divide which led me to dismiss all of the other trees ... sad.
Roger Austen's father was Matthew b 1652 and his father was also Matthew, whose father was Valentine b 1595, who I have as married to a Jane Terell.
My email address is johncowan38@gmail.com and I am quite happy to exchange relevant bits of our trees.
Regards, John
-
Hi Matt
We may share some ancestors, but have different paths to get there!
My earliest Austen was Mary b 1688 who married into the Nash side of my family. I have her father as Roger Austen b 1672 who married a Margaret Franklyn b 1665. This link got me quite excited at the time as it went back to Edward 1, but again there was a 'class' and geographic divide which led me to dismiss all of the other trees ... sad.
Roger Austen's father was Matthew b 1652 and his father was also Matthew, whose father was Valentine b 1595, who I have as married to a Jane Terell.
My email address is johncowan38@gmail.com and I am quite happy to exchange relevant bits of our trees.
Regards, John
Hiya
Yes I think you are right. I don't have your Matthew Austen [b1652] but I do have his father, Matthew Austen [son of Valentine Austen and Jane Terrell] born November 1629 [christened 1 November 1629 Wye]. Valentine Austen was a maltster and died in 1649/50 leaving a Will.
Valentine Austen married Elizabeth Sheffe/Sheaffe in about 1634 [Jane died in 1633]. Their 5th child Elizabeth Austen married John Kennett in Wye in 1664.
Valentine's parents were Matthew Austen [1562-1640] and his wife Tomasine [who died in 1652], both of whom left Wills. Valentine himself was the son of Richard Austen of Adisham [1512-1592] and Agnes Denne.
John Kennett and Elizabeth Austen's son William Kennett married Margaret Gibbes [daughter of Lawrence Gibbes of Crundale]. I descend from their son [and only child] John Kennett [b1698 Wye]. Interestingly there is another mention of the Austens in the Will of Margaret Gibbes uncle, Stephen Gibbes. In his Will he mentions his sister Jane who was married to Thomas Austen, and also their son Lawrence Austen:
"I give to Jane my sister the wife of Thomas Austen the sum of fifty pounds which her husband hath of mine in her hand she to have the use and profit thereof during her natural life and after her decease I give the same fifty pounds to Lawrence Austen her son"
He also mentions "Elizabeth daughter of William Austen of Wye" so there must be a link there with the other Austens but I haven't worked it out yet.
Anyhow I will end there but I will try to email you some GEDCOMs or trees in pdf format over the next few days.
There are certainly a lot of the Austens and they are an interesting family.
Matt
William Kennett's younger brother Richard married Elizabeth Austin of Newington nxt Hythe in 1699 but I don't know how she is related to the other Austens.
-
Hi.
Looking for any info re the following.
Regards,
Gary
Australia.
Jno. Austen
England Marriages, 1538–1973 birth:
Of This Parish
marriage:
19 January 1764
Ashford Parish, Kent, England spouse:
Eliz. Castle
-
Sorry Gary, the Austens only occur in my mother's father's family tree priot to 1688.
Best of luck, John
-
Hi.
Looking for any info re the following.
Regards,
Gary
Australia.
Jno. Austen
England Marriages, 1538–1973 birth:
Of This Parish
marriage:
19 January 1764
Ashford Parish, Kent, England spouse:
Eliz. Castle
Hi John
Not sure if this is any help to you but there is a John Austen born in Wye in 1742. I believe he's part of my tree but I will need to check my notes at home. He was the son of Lawrence and Elizabeth.
It looks like this Lawrence was born in 1700 in Wye and was the son of another Lawrence and his wife Mary.
This last Lawrence may have been born in Wye in 1662 the son of Thomas Wye.
I don't know about any marriages yet as I am in the town now but I can check my Austen tree and notes at home later. A lot of my Austens came from Wye and the tree is quite big plus I do have several wills for them.
I will see if there's anything that might help.
Matt
-
Hi Matt
My mother's father's family tree starts with a Mary Austen b circa 1686 around Ashford, in Kent.
The first Austin I have in Wye is Matthew baptised 01.10.1629 and his father is Valentine b circa 1595, so I am not sure where our families merge?
Regards, John
-
Hi Matt
My mother's father's family tree starts with a Mary Austen b circa 1686 around Ashford, in Kent.
The first Austin I have in Wye is Matthew baptised 01.10.1629 and his father is Valentine b circa 1595, so I am not sure where our families merge?
Regards, John
Hi Cousin!
Bingo there's the link! My ancestor is Elizabeth Austen, Matthew's half-sister. She was baptised in 1642 and married John Kennett.
I can take the Austen line back at least another few generations to the early 16th century.
Confusingly though I actually have two lines of Austen ancestors lol!
Anyhow I will send an update tomorrow. If you want you can send me a pm with your email and I can send you a GEDCOM of the tree I have.
Best Wishes
Matt
-
To a very distant Cousin
I was never very good at school at working on family relationships, so goodness knows how many 'removes' we are!
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
My Austins go back from Mary b 1686 to Henry b 1350 but after that, the link to Edward III b 1312 is a little more tenuous!
Do you live anywhere near Rutland?
Best wishes, John
-
Hi John
First, in answer to your question, nope I live in Watford, Hertfordshire. That said however, my mum's ancestors came from Great Weldon in Northamptonshire, and several parishes in Leicestershire several generations back in the 17th and 18th centuries.
I must admit my ancestry is pretty spread out on both sides of my family, with links in Kent [where I have a lot of ancestors on both sides], Sussex, Surrey, Dorset, Devon, Somerset, Leicestershire, London, Middlesex, Northamptonshire, Essex and Berkshire! I don't think I have missed anywhere.
Yes I did! Ireland although that's more complicated.
I was interested in your note about the link to Edward III, can you tell me more? Even if it's just a theory.
Anyhow I will email you this evening with an update.
Matt
-
Hi Matt
I also share the Dennes, as I have Richard Austin b 1512 married to Agnes Denne b 1518.
I have uncorroborated links back to Robert Deene b circa 1000, in a reasonable chain ie no serious anomalies.
Regards, John
Although very widely copied around, we have found no ** evidence ** that Richard Austen's wife Agnes was Agnes Denne. There are some hints, no more, in Robert Denne's will and a completely unsupported and unsourced statement in Robert Sewell's work http://www.robertsewell.ca/denne.html
The identification of Agnes Denne as Richard Austen's wife is, at best, speculative.
-
Hi Matt
I also share the Dennes, as I have Richard Austin b 1512 married to Agnes Denne b 1518.
I have uncorroborated links back to Robert Deene b circa 1000, in a reasonable chain ie no serious anomalies.
Regards, John
Although very widely copied around, we have found no ** evidence ** that Richard Austen's wife Agnes was Agnes Denne. There are some hints, no more, in Robert Denne's will and a completely unsupported and unsourced statement in Robert Sewell's work http://www.robertsewell.ca/denne.html
The identification of Agnes Denne as Richard Austen's wife is, at best, speculative.
Hello again!
Yes I agree with you about Richard Austen's wife. I have seen her name given as "Agnes", "Agnes Denne", "Agnes/Anne" so I agree we can't be sure of her surname. We can, however, be certain that her first name was Agnes though.
For me this isn't a big problem however, as I connect to the Denne family through other lines [I have about 4 Denne family connections!] and also connect to the Austens via two different branches.
Again leave this with me and I will update you further we more info later after work.
All the best
Matthew