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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: seemex on Sunday 24 September 17 20:56 BST (UK)

Title: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Sunday 24 September 17 20:56 BST (UK)
Since everyone did so well on my last photo, I thought I'd try one more. There are some clues in it that could help if anyone is familiar with the area, like the names on the bus indicate maybe a tour in Wales, Snowdon, Lledr Valley, Barmouth and Aberaeron are those that I can make out.
What I know is the year was probably 1933 like the last photo i posted. My mother is one of the ladies in the picture. Thanks to everyone's great detective work we I know she visited Hoylake, and Parkgate on that same trip. I also think she may have had family around Chester. I also know that she attended a wedding in Penkridge, Staffordshire around that time too.
Establishing locations is a huge help towards discovering identities and relationships that until now, I didn't have a clue about. The expertise on Rootschat has been instrumental in my uncovering quite a number of family mysteries so far so with that in mind, and my sincere thanks in advance, I will again ask for the help of Rootschat members.
Brian
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: japeflakes on Monday 25 September 17 15:33 BST (UK)
LV 1600 (if that is what it is)  was issued from July 1932 to Aug. 1934 by Liverpool Counci
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Monday 25 September 17 16:15 BST (UK)
My immediate impression is Conwy/Conway.I'll see if I can find a confirming view.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 25 September 17 17:08 BST (UK)
My immediate impression is Conwy/Conway.I'll see if I can find a confirming view.

Regards
Roger

That is what I was thinking though can't see anything that matches.  The coach came from LLandudno.  Conway Castle has round towers  http://cadw.gov.wales/daysout/conwycastle/?lang=en

Can't find a picture of the entrance arches to the town  ::)
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Monday 25 September 17 17:10 BST (UK)
No,can't find a view either,not the archway I thought it might be.Thinking cap back on again.

Regards
Roger
 
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 17:32 BST (UK)
No,can't find a view either,not the archway I thought it might be.Thinking cap back on again.

Regards
Roger

Good guess though! I had a look on Google Earth too but like you say, the gateways are different. I think for sure it's in that same area...as the LV1600 guess of the car plates suggests Liverpool registry  and that bus in the backgrounds shows Welsh names...it has to be along that route
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 17:51 BST (UK)
I first of all thought it might be Conway but couldn't find any old pics. Then moved on to Rhuddlan and Beaumaris but no suitable pics so far.
Virtually every school trip we did was touring North Wales, so I should recognised it. Problem is that I did these trips in the 1950s but that is 1933  :-\
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 17:53 BST (UK)
Possibly Denbigh.
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 17:57 BST (UK)
I first of all thought it might be Conway but couldn't find any old pics. Then moved on to Rhuddlan and Beaumaris but no suitable pics so far.
Virtually every school trip we did was touring North Wales, so I should recognised it. Problem is that I did these trips in the 1950s but that is 1933  :-\

I'm thinking now that they were probably staying in Chester and would have done day trips from there. To me everything looks like a long way on the map, but I can see that distances were not all that far. Still. roads were different and so was transportation ( much slower ) so it's difficult to say what sort of range would be feasible back then. That gateway is quite distinctive....quite a point at the top.
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 18:26 BST (UK)
Here are some popular North Wales castles - I don't easily recognise yours from any of these

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/whats-on/gallery/look-23-stunning-north-wales-9700145

Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 18:50 BST (UK)
I've been looking at all the castles and it seem that pointed style of archway is used in the Chester area, although I can't find the exact one in the photo. Would the arch style be a distinguishing factor that might tie it to the Chester district?
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: groom on Monday 25 September 17 18:58 BST (UK)
Could it be city walls rather than a castle? There is a fire station next to the entrance isn't there?
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 19:05 BST (UK)
Could it be city walls rather than a castle? There is a fire station next to the entrance isn't there?

Yes, it does look like a gateway to a town or "inner area" of a town. The fire hall is there at the entrance. Also seems to be a sort of plaza or turn-around area
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 19:05 BST (UK)
Nearest I can get to a possible Chester location on Google so far - Chester Castle

http://www.castlesfortsbattles.co.uk/north_west/images/chester_walls11a_king_charles_tower.jpg?crc=4155658164

Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Monday 25 September 17 19:19 BST (UK)
Does it look to others,as it does to me,that there is no passageway through the arch,the shape visible below the apex being a hole in a wall beyond,i.e.it is a decorative rather than a functional arch?

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 19:35 BST (UK)
Does it look to others,as it does to me,that there is no passageway through the arch,the shape visible below the apex being a hole in a wall beyond,i.e.it is a decorative rather than a functional arch?

Regards
Roger
It's possible I suppose, but there seems to be some sort of lamp hanging from the top of the arch, which might indicate a passageway?
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 19:48 BST (UK)
LV 1600 (if that is what it is)  was issued from July 1932 to Aug. 1934 by Liverpool Counci

Is it possible that the location is somewhere closer to Liverpool? I know....the bus and all the Welsh names....but the plates on the car! Just guessing
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 20:02 BST (UK)
Just looking at the arch and tower* on the far left on this image of Conwy Castle:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~brett/photosleuth/photochrom10620.jpg

There are similarities.

* tower feature to right of archway, also the stonework pattern over the arch.
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 20:09 BST (UK)
Just looking at the arch and tower* on the far left on this image of Conwy Castle:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~brett/photosleuth/photochrom10620.jpg

There are similarities.

* tower feature to right of archway, also the stonework pattern over the arch.

Yes, that does have that pattern above and the same shape to the arch. Maybe the fire hall was added later on? Also the photo from slightly different angle but even the signage sort of matches
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 20:17 BST (UK)
It's much before 1933.  I've snipped, enlarged and brightened the relevant small part of the image for comparative purposes:


Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Alan Shingler on Monday 25 September 17 20:35 BST (UK)
I think its Beaumaris castle on Anglesey.
You can see the archway on streetview
Algie
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Monday 25 September 17 21:23 BST (UK)
Isn't Beaumaris moated?

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Little Nell on Monday 25 September 17 21:25 BST (UK)
I'm inclined to Gadget's conclusion.  Take a look at this photo for comparison:

https://www.francisfrith.com/conwy/conwy-castle-1913_65753

Nell
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: groom on Monday 25 September 17 21:25 BST (UK)
Isn't Beaumaris moated?

Regards
Roger

Yes, I can't find the view on streetview - can you take a screen shot and post it please?
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: groom on Monday 25 September 17 21:26 BST (UK)
I'm inclined to Gadget's conclusion.  Take a look at this photo for comparison:

https://www.francisfrith.com/conwy/conwy-castle-1913_65753

Nell

Yes, I think that is definitely it! Well done Gadget and Little Nell.
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Alan Shingler on Monday 25 September 17 21:26 BST (UK)
Sorry I am wrong , taking a closer look it isnt Beaumaris
Algie
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 21:30 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat, Algie. Don't apologise as the North entrance to Beaumaris is very similar  :)

To my shame (and the school's), we never stopped at Conwy on the school trips. We were always speading by to Rhyl for high tea. I always saw the castle from the road  :-X

Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Monday 25 September 17 21:43 BST (UK)
I'm inclined to Gadget's conclusion.  Take a look at this photo for comparison:

https://www.francisfrith.com/conwy/conwy-castle-1913_65753

Nell

Yes, I think that is definitely it! Well done Gadget and Little Nell.

I agree with you all and the Francis Frith photo shows quite well where the fire hall would be on the right of the entrance. Again you've all outdone yourselves. I can't tell you how thankful I am for your assistance. Living in Canada with no way to see for myself, I'm actually feeling very much like I've been there! Google Earth is a big help, but having you all as guides makes my armchair journey so much better. Thanks to everyone and I hope I am not overdoing it with all my questions.
Cheers,
Brian
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Monday 25 September 17 21:43 BST (UK)
I thought my instinct was right,just couldn't find the view-well done once again Gadget.

(Seemex- we like questions!)
Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 21:48 BST (UK)
I thought my instinct was right,just couldn't find the view-well done once again Gadget.


Regards
Roger

Same here, Roger. As soon as Brian posted, I thought 'Conwy' but couldn't find it. I then deviated to all the other Castles in North Wales and then decided to look again at the old Frith cards - the one I found came up on Google before Nell's.

I now know a lot more about the castles and antiquities of my homeland  :D

Gadget
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: groom on Monday 25 September 17 21:50 BST (UK)
Quote
To my shame (and the school's), we never stopped at Conwy on the school trips. We were always speading by to Rhyl for high tea. I always saw the castle from the road

I should have recognised it as well, I took children there on school trip for several years. However in my defence I was probably too busy counting heads to make sure that we hadn't lost any children! 
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Monday 25 September 17 21:53 BST (UK)
Gadget-my instinct should have been right-I live less than 20 miles away(Dyserth).When you stopped in Rhyl I might have seen you,I was born there!

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: heywood on Monday 25 September 17 21:54 BST (UK)
Well done Gadget  :)

There is mention of the fire station and other buildings here - see '20th century improvements'

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ks4/

Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 September 17 21:55 BST (UK)
I was the one eating candy floss, Roger  ;D

For completeness, here's the entrance to Beaumaris that Algie found:

http://www.castlesfortsbattles.co.uk/Beaumaris_Castle8.jpg

Added - just looked at your link, Heywood - explains a lot  :)  Bet you went on trips along the North Wales coast too.
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: heywood on Monday 25 September 17 21:59 BST (UK)
We weren't that posh  ;)
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Monday 25 September 17 21:59 BST (UK)
I was the one earning pocket money by "casing".

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: japeflakes on Tuesday 26 September 17 08:42 BST (UK)
I know all the hard work has been done but might be useful. 1919
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 September 17 09:38 BST (UK)
Well, that's certainly conclusive, japeflakes.  Good one  :) 

A really good close up and possibly before the fire station (fits with heywood's info). Where did you find it?

Gadget
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 26 September 17 10:07 BST (UK)
The gateway is no longer there - demolished to make way for a road:

https://goo.gl/LqUFHJ

https://goo.gl/ygQkhK


Compare the view in the Francis Frith photo (https://www.francisfrith.com/conwy/conwy-castle-1913_65753)
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Mike Morrell (NL) on Tuesday 26 September 17 10:45 BST (UK)
A different type of confirmation: the photo shows one of 'Cream's coaches'. Based in Llandudno, Cream's provided coach trips, including one to Conwy castle. A couple of other castles I looked at in the Llandudno area would have been in much worse shape than the one in this photo. Probably Conwy then. It's by far the most impressive in the area and also the closest to Llandudno.

Mike
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: japeflakes on Tuesday 26 September 17 11:23 BST (UK)
Well, that's certainly conclusive, japeflakes.  Good one  :) 

A really good close up and possibly before the fire station (fits with heywood's info). Where did you find it?

Gadget
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nostalgia/gallery/nostalgic-pictures-show-conwy-through-9752687
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: seemex on Tuesday 26 September 17 17:09 BST (UK)
A different type of confirmation: the photo shows one of 'Cream's coaches'. Based in Llandudno, Cream's provided coach trips, including one to Conwy castle. A couple of other castles I looked at in the Llandudno area would have been in much worse shape than the one in this photo. Probably Conwy then. It's by far the most impressive in the area and also the closest to Llandudno.

Mike

I didn't realize until your post that the name of the bus company was "Cream's" I thought it read "Creamo" and was advertising. Here we use Creamo in our coffee! It's amazing what one can miss, even when it's plain as day. I managed to read the names along the top of the bus, but missed the big name on the end!
Thanks! :)
Brian
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Mike Morrell (NL) on Tuesday 26 September 17 22:29 BST (UK)
... It's amazing what one can miss, even when it's plain as day. I managed to read the names along the top of the bus, but missed the big name on the end!
Thanks! :)
Brian

Hi Brian, I'm Welsh so the one thing that jumped out at me in the photo was 'Llandudno' on the back of the bus. I looked up 'Cream's buses coaches Llandudno' and found an old archive reference to 'coach tours to the castle'. Cream's coaches still exists today, surprisingly!

OT but growing up in Wales, it seemed like there were castles - or the remains of them -
everywhere. Two in my home town. I remember being really surprised to learn that they were actually 'English Castles' built to consolidate and defend land acquisition in Wales -  and the rule over them - by English (Norman) noblemen. The big ones like Conwy were built by King Edward 1 in the 13th century. Partly to consolidate and defend English rule in Wales. But also to visibly demonstrate the overpowering might of English rule on the 'Welsh rebels'.

Don't get me wrong, I don't carry a torch for Welsh nationalism. All this happened eight hundred years ago and I haven't lived in Wales (or anywhere else in the UK) for 40 years. But as someone interested in history, I think it's good to know the historical context in which these castles (Conwy included) were built.

Mike
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: despair on Wednesday 27 September 17 16:56 BST (UK)
I was looking for somehing else entirely when I came across this-typical!

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 27 September 17 17:01 BST (UK)
That's the one that I found that led me to decided it was Conwy, Roger  ;D
I only linked it cos it was  possibly copyrighted.

Just looking at the arch and tower* on the far left on this image of Conwy Castle:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~brett/photosleuth/photochrom10620.jpg

There are similarities.

* tower feature to right of archway, also the stonework pattern over the arch.
Title: Re: Another location mystery, Iris and friend maybe on a tour of Snowdon
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 27 September 17 17:10 BST (UK)
It didn't look like that when I was there in the summer  ;D   ;D

Glad that my first instincts were right though and good to see what it used to look like.