RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Gaynorf on Thursday 07 September 17 18:19 BST (UK)
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HI,
I am researching my husband's family tree in Ireland, and unusually, we live in Ireland and nobody in the family left until the 1950s.
We have a family mystery and I'm stuck as to where to go next. My husband's grandfather was illegitimate and brought up by a different family. All sorts of stories were spread about who his mother was, where she went, who his father was, but living here and knowing lie of the land, I thought most of these stories were up in the air.
Finally, I found the great grandmother, Mary French, in South Dublin Workhouse.
She entered the workhouse in 1901; single, of no fixed abode, a servant. She was there until 1903 when she left, with a baby, who was a few days old. We couldn't work out how she got out with a baby. If she couldn't afford to live on her own, how could she be allowed to leave and support a baby? She was there over 2 years.
We were unable to read all the details on the record sheet but with a bit of help from Roscommon genealogy centre, we deciphered it.
In her workhouse record, there is a code, and then it says £11.00 paid for baby.
She left with the baby as on the baby's records it says 'discharged with mother'.
We know where the baby was from the age of 7, where he is recorded with the family who brought him up, the Wests.
We know Mary got pregnant whilst in the workhouse: we know she left unmarried still, and we are amazed that she received money from the workhouse at a time when it was very common for babies to be taken off single mothers. It would have been easy to make this issue 'disappear'.
There are records of women getting pregnant and members of staff being sacked for doing the deed so to speak but I can't find any details about Mary.
The baby grew up and married, and it says on his church record that his father was a Thomas French, a soldier. We know this isn't true. Because of the stigma around illegitimacy, his wife, my husband's grandmother, told different family members different stories about her husband's parentage. He himself would never talk about it but we think he knew exactly how he came into the world because he would get quite angry and refused blank to talk about it.
So, is there anyway to access workhouse records from the board? I know they used to record everything each day but these records aren't available online. Can anyone help me in regards to finding these?
And, does anyone have any ideas regarding how to find out what happened to this baby before he went to his new family. There was no adoption (not legal at this time anyway, not formally) and in the 1911 census records, poor little Thomas is recorded as a 'scholar' and still has his birth surname, French.
The early 1900s (and later if we are honest) were a terrible time for single mothers. To be paid and allowed to leave a workhouse with a baby conceived whilst in there has us all flummoxed!
Thank you xxxxxx
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Hi Gaynorf and welcome to RootsChat
i recently had a few problem's searching for people missing from records and census fellow RootsChatter Hasta found them in the workhouse for me,on another topic i dropped a name where a child was on the census as adopted another RootsChatter used this name to find a little more info for me.
I suggest you try searching workhouse records using Matilda West from 1903 as name you may find more info.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Merchant_s_Quay/Back_Lane/67378/
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Hi and welcome to rootchat ;D
Was Mary born in Wexford? Entered the workhouse after 1901 census was taken? If so is this her?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003740385/
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No. Darn it. She would have been 24 in 1901. Thank you for looking though xx
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No. Darn it. She would have been 24 in 1901. Thank you for looking though xx
Have you found her on Census?
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She isn't coming up on the census. She would have been homeless just before the 1901 one and none match the 1911. We mainly want to know how she got pregnant in the workhouse AND got compensated for it. That is unheard of.
She may have got married or left the country or even changed her name. We think we have a candidate who had the same birth date who has died, so am waiting for the death cert but we have very little to go on really.
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Maybe she worked there as nursing assistant??
In 1895, the workhouse was visited by a "commission" from the British Medical Journal investigating conditions in Irish workhouse infirmaries. Their report noted that South Dublin had separate infirmaries for Roman Catholic and Protestant patients, staffed respectively by nuns (Sisters of Mercy) and deaconesses, with a large number of pauper inmates acting as nursing assistants.
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The Board of Guardian’s minutes (weekly management meetings) might mention her if her case was unusual. Looks as though those records might be in the National Archives in Dublin. (Personal visit usually required to view them).
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/DublinSouth/
Is it possible that the £11 payment was from the West family, for her agreeing to let them adopt the child, rather than from the Workhouse master?
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No. Darn it. She would have been 24 in 1901. Thank you for looking though xx
Don't trust the ages on the census, they didn't need to prove their age so could say what suited them. If you do not have a birth cert or baptism record for her personally I would say if she was in Dublin in April 1901, that is her.
Is she written as in inmate in the workhouse?
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Thank you. There are several Mary French's, classed as servants. This one has been traced forwards through her date of birth (alleged) and it isn't her. Thank you so much for your help though xx
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Hi, thank you all.
We have Thomas's full history from the age of 7 with the Wests. It is unlikely they paid 11 for the child as this would have been around £1000 in those days and the West's are quite poor, living in two rooms. Matilda was also widowed quite early and lived with 2 children (she had 3) and her mother. We have all the West's history as they were part of the family during Thomas's children's time: my husbands aunt etc.
Mary French was def. an inmate, not a nurse. We have her timescale in the workhouse.
We have tracked two down that might fit loosely with her history and year of birth (+/-) and the family stories. One died (we are getting her birth cert) and the other left for America, which fits in with the family tales minus the 'married a rich dr' lol.
Adoption at that time was not a legal process and Thomas never changed his name and was registered as a boarder. He wasn't abandoned and it would have been easy for her to leave the baby in the workhouse. That sadly was a common practice. We suspect she initially paid for the Wests to look after the baby and we are looking backwards for their family history. We have no baptism record for Thomas which is strange but we are working on it.
Thank you so much for the minutes link, to the board of governors. We will try that out next week.
Thank you all. It's so strange, we have been able to go so far back with other family members on the grandmother's side thanks to church records but Mary is a dilemma. There is also the risk that she used a middle name, made up a name etc etc, but my gut is going with the two most likely ones. Thank you. Feeling inspired again!
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......staffed respectively by nuns (Sisters of Mercy) and deaconesses, with a large number of pauper inmates acting as nursing assistants.
Could she have been an Assistant?
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Shrink Link not working for me at moment but if you enter F for French and M for Mary into search boxes on 1901 census .address as'' James's ''do not enter street into address also click on female you get 2 F Ms age 21 and 27 both born Dublin,there are too many pages for me to go through to see why they are there.
e g
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003720223/
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Yes.... Shrink Link not working here too!!
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=F&exact=&firstname=M&county19011911=Dublin&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=James%27s&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=age&pageSize=50