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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: woolamai on Sunday 03 September 17 21:39 BST (UK)

Title: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: woolamai on Sunday 03 September 17 21:39 BST (UK)
Could anyone find my 2 missing George Urquhart's
I have George born around 1821 who  married Janet Robertson on 9th May 1846 in Dunfermline. He has a son Robert Urquhart was born in 1854 in Dunfermline. I'm not sure whether there are 2 families with George Urquhart's at the time or whether he keeps moving/changing occupations/changes the name of his wife from Janet to Jessie. I can't find him in the later years or his death.

The second George Urquhart was born on 20th March 1881 in Dunfermline, Fife. He married Jessie Wilson Penman on 10th February 1905. George appears on the 1881, 1891, 1901 census living in Dunfermline. Then goes missing as does his wife. I know what happened to their children (they emigrated to Australia), but not sure about them. There is a South African connection, but can't find their deaths.

Would really appreciate some help with my 2 mysterious George's!
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 September 17 22:24 BST (UK)
Quote
I know what happened to their children

As he married in 1905 - he presumably had children born before the 1911 census so have you looked in 1911 for the children?

Janet & Jessie are interchangeable in Scotland


Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 03 September 17 22:45 BST (UK)
Quote
I can't find him in the later years or his death.

In 1871 he is in Dunfermline - son Robert still with them

Dunfermline Burgh ED 5 Page 3 Line 12

No trace of either George or his wife in 1881
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: woolamai on Monday 04 September 17 08:54 BST (UK)
I think this is the same George, but I may have 2 different George's mixed up
1851 Cambell Street, Dunfermline aged 28 as a hand loom weaver
1856 George Urquhart: East foundry street, Dunfermline : carter - tenant and occupier
1861 census at Pilmuir Street, Dunfermline aged 40 as a general labourer
1871 living at Foundry Street Dunfermline aged 49 as a carter
Then I can't find him or his wife

Then I have 1909 The Directory For Dunfermline, Inverkeithing and Naval Base George Urquhart, 51 Golfdrum a factory worker. Not sure who this is, maybe George's son George??

The later George - I don't think I have access to the 1911 census. Would be great if anyone can find him or his wife. I think I have him getting on a boat Dunluce Castle in 17 Apr 1914 but this is just G Urquhart as a "guard". I have the rest of his family getting off a boat on 9th December 1913 landed in Southampton from the RMS ship Saxon of the Union Castle Line from Durban, South Africa there was Mrs Jessie Urquhart aged 32, May aged 7, Robert aged 5 and Wilhemina aged 1. Ship departed from Natal. They were third class passengers. Country of last permanent residence Union of South Africa. At this point there is no sign of George, and after this record I can't find Jessie either, but the 3 children are on a boat to Australia in March 1928 without either parent.
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: woolamai on Monday 04 September 17 09:04 BST (UK)
These are the children's details if anyone can find this family in 1911
Mary Wilson Urquhart known as May christened 13th August 1905, North Church, Dunfermline
Robert Mathieson Urquhart   born 02 Mar 1907, christened 19 Sep 1909
Wiliamina Jessie known as Ina born 1914   (can't find birth or christening details)

Robert emigrated to Australia with his sisters (Ina and May) in March 1928. Their route took 5 weeks. They were 3rd class passengers.  The ship was the Orama of the shipping line Orient. The departure date was 3rd March 1928. The ship departed from the Port of London. The ships captain was Captain C G  Matheson. There were 1087 passengers aboard.  Their address given on the passenger lists was 36 Rodney Street, Edinburgh. Robert (20) and his sister M.W (22) were listed as shop keepers as profession. No profession for WJ (14) (too young) . Family legend has it that they travelled via the Cape Horn as they couldn’t afford the quicker Suez canal route.

I don't know why they were in Edinburgh before departing and if this can help to track down what happened to their parents. Family legend has it that George Urquhart went to South Africa as a mine inspector and died in a mine collapse, but I can't find anything other than the shipping to support this. Family thought that his wife Jessie travelled with the children to Australia, but I can't find her on a ship, nor is she living with them when they arrive in Australia, so I think she stayed/died in Scotland maybe.
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 04 September 17 09:10 BST (UK)
Have you tried Scotlands People this could be a possible death for his wife 1878 Dunfermline age 63
Janet Urquhart other name Robertson Ref 424/196 ...Might be worth a check

Rosie
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: ev on Monday 04 September 17 10:33 BST (UK)
Hi all ,

Looks like Jessie Wilson Penman/Urquhart remarried in 1924 to David Cuthbert Marshall(Edinburgh).

Jessie may have travelled under the surname Marshall.



ev

Added -
There is a death for a David Cuthbert Marshall , age 75 ,  1955  George Square Midlothian.
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 04 September 17 10:48 BST (UK)
Hi all ,

Looks like Jessie Wilson Penman/Urquhart remarried in 1924 to David Cuthbert Marshall(Edinburgh).

Jessie may have travelled under the surname Marshall.



ev

Added -
There is a death for a David Cuthbert Marshall , age 75 ,  1955  George Square Midlothian.

Snap  ;D
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: woolamai on Monday 02 October 17 20:12 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for this. It hadn't occurred to me that she remarried. She still doesn't seem to be on the ship to Australia, so presumably the children went on their own - Wilhemina was only 14. I can't imagine how that must have been for the family.
Can anyone find Jessie's death in Edinburgh - presumably as Jessie Marshall.
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 03 October 17 03:52 BST (UK)
Hmm, not sure what's going on here  :-\ but...

When Jessie Wilson Urqhuart married David Cuthbert Marshall she had 3 surnames!!!

MARSHALL DAVID CUTHBERT
URQUHART JESSIE WILSON
1924
685/2 485 St Andrew (Edinburgh)

MARSHALL DAVID CUTHBERT
PENMAN JESSIE WILSON
1924
685/2 485 St Andrew (Edinburgh)

MARSHALL DAVID CUTHBERT
ELLIS JESSIE WILSON
1924
685/2 485 St Andrew (Edinburgh)

A possible...

URQUHART WILLIAMINA
1915
685/2 637 St Andrew (Edinburgh)

Annie
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 03 October 17 04:17 BST (UK)
I have read the thread although not quite got everything in perspective.
Looking at the VRs for the address prior to immigration & after (1925 & 1930) the surname Robertson which I noted in an early post may have some significance  :-\ 

ROBERTSON ALEXANDER MALCOLM Proprietor Occupier
HOUSE 36 RODNEY STREET, EDINBURGH
1925
VR010000497-

ROBERTSON MARY MRS Proprietor Occupier
HOUSE 36 RODNEY STREET, EDINBURGH
1925
VR010000497-


ROBERTSON MARY MRS Proprietor Occupier
HOUSE 36 RODNEY STREET, EDINBURGH
1930
VR010000617-

Annie
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: rosie17 on Tuesday 03 October 17 12:31 BST (UK)
Hmm, not sure what's going on here  :-\ but...

When Jessie Wilson Urqhuart married David Cuthbert Marshall she had 3 surnames!!!

MARSHALL DAVID CUTHBERT
URQUHART JESSIE WILSON
1924
685/2 485 St Andrew (Edinburgh)

MARSHALL DAVID CUTHBERT
PENMAN JESSIE WILSON
1924
685/2 485 St Andrew (Edinburgh)

MARSHALL DAVID CUTHBERT
ELLIS JESSIE WILSON
1924
685/2 485 St Andrew (Edinburgh

This is the marriage 1924 Jessie Wilson Penman or Urquhart or Ellis to David Cuthbert Marshall
88,St Stephens Street Edinburgh
Jessie signed as Jessie Ellis ( Widow )age 45 housekeeper

1918 St Giles
Jessie Penman 685/41199
Jessie Urquhart 685/41199
Spouse Thomas Ellis

Rosie
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: woolamai on Tuesday 27 February 18 21:50 GMT (UK)
Gosh, thank you so much for that. Her maiden name was Jessie Wilson Penman so that explains that name. She married George Urquhart thus Jessie Urquhart. The Ellis is a shocker! Does that mean she remarried twice?
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: woolamai on Tuesday 27 February 18 22:08 GMT (UK)
The Robertsons at 36 Rodney street is fascinating too. They must be some sort of distant relative I think.

Looking at street view on Google it looks like this address comes with a shop underneath. Is there any way of find out what sort of shop it would be at the time?
I found that when Jessies children went to Australia in 1928; Their address given on the passenger lists was 36 Rodney Street, Edinburgh. Robert (20) and his sister M.W (22) were listed as shop keepers as profession. No profession for WJ (14) (too young). I had been confused by this as the family were from Dunfermline originally.

Imagine her waving her 3 children off on a ship knowing you wouldn't see them again. Is there any sign of a death record for Jessie in Scotland?
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 28 February 18 11:01 GMT (UK)
Not having much luck finding a death record for Jessie  ???.

The electoral register 1927 address 36,Rodney Street Edinburgh
David C Marshall
Mrs Jessie W Marshall
Mary W Urquhart
There are some other tenants listed at this address including a Annie Robertson

Rosie
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 28 February 18 11:42 GMT (UK)
Gosh, thank you so much for that. Her maiden name was Jessie Wilson Penman so that explains that name. She married George Urquhart thus Jessie Urquhart. The Ellis is a shocker! Does that mean she remarried twice?

Yes she Married Thomas Ellis 1918 St Giles Edinburgh
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: woolamai on Friday 02 March 18 19:24 GMT (UK)
I've found her! I'd been looking at the ships departure list for Adelaide by mistake - she got off at Melbourne. She is travelling on the ship Orama as J. Marshall with her children (all Urquharts) departing on March 1928. Interestingly she is the only Marshall aboard. I think she left her husband behind, or maybe he died? I'm so glad she went with the children! I've also found her memorial plaque in Falkner Cemetery, Melbourne. She died 25/03/1941 aged 61 as Jessie Wilson Marshall. Interestingly none of the relatives knew she had remarried, so no one knew she was there! Thank you so much for your help with this.
There are a few Robertsons onboard the ship too. I don't know if that is co-incidence or whether they are related to the ones she was living with in Edinburgh. They are
Robertson   A   born1864   
Robertson   A   born1912   
Robertson   A R born1876   
Robertson   I   born 1914
I found a newspaper advert The Scotsman - Saturday 04 February 1928 where she is selling 36 Rodney Street - second floor. It says Mrs Marshall - no mention of Mr Marshall - with possession for 1st March. This must have been when they left to travel down for the ship departure on 3rd March!
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: rosie17 on Friday 02 March 18 21:59 GMT (UK)
That's great you found her  :D. There is a death for a David Cuthbert Marshall 1955 George Square Edinburgh age 75 ...You would need to check it out

Rosie
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: DavidSMaxwell on Saturday 25 August 18 13:49 BST (UK)
I have a very precious booklet from 1898-1901 50% text/50% drawings and photos Robert (George ?) Urquhart. He was there with wife and baby [ photo recorded as "Jessie McDonald Urquhart Aged 11 months"..in 1901 ] Written like a blog with humour, it covers a journey from Limekilns to South Africa and accidentally working for the 'enemy' at the outbreak of the Boar War.

Would like to get in contact with descendants. Could also scan as a PDF file on Dropbox if there is an interest.
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: rosie17 on Saturday 25 August 18 13:57 BST (UK)
Hi David and welcome to rootschat you might need to remove your e-mail address.. if you make another 2 posts you will be able to send a private message to Woolamai  and you can exchange information

Rosie  ;)
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: DavidSMaxwell on Sunday 26 August 18 10:04 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie,

Thank you! FYI Intention is to pass this on to Historic Scotland. Possibility that it will be expand into a documentary so would be wonderful to have involvement from relatives.
Title: Re: George Urquhart's Look up/help needed
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 26 August 18 18:14 BST (UK)
There are a few Robertsons onboard the ship too. I don't know if that is co-incidence or whether they are related to the ones she was living with in Edinburgh. They are
Robertson   A   born1864   
Robertson   A   born1912   
Robertson   A R born1876   
Robertson   I   born 1914

Is there any indication of the sexes of the above?

I had a quick look in the Midlothian area & found...

ROBERTSON ALEXANDER ROLLO 1876 685/3 493 Canongate

It might be worth a search for him close to where Jessie Wilson Marshall & family were as there was 1 birth with that name/yr & no death matching unless his middle name/initial was dropped?

Annie