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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: longer on Thursday 24 August 17 18:30 BST (UK)

Title: Thomas Webb
Post by: longer on Thursday 24 August 17 18:30 BST (UK)
I'm trying to find out who Thomas Webb's father was and what his mother's maiden name was (if any).

I think he was born around 1834-1837 in London/Middlesex (maybe Islington) and married to a lady called Ellen who was born in Islip, Oxfordshire (don't have any further info on her either).

He was a Police Officer and then was pensioned off and I think he died around 1886 in London (Pentonville?).

He was on the 1871 census (Christchurch, Spitalfields) with his wife Ellen and a lady called Margaret aged 76 (from Hackney?)  who was entered as 'mother' but not sure if it was his or his wife's mother.

Any help on how to find his birth details would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: JJen on Thursday 24 August 17 19:04 BST (UK)
Hi,

Looking at the birth of Louisa Bessie Webb who appears on the 1881 with Ellen and Thomas -

q1 1876, Whitchapel
Vol 1c Page 335

Mother's maiden name is Goddard. It would appear that Thomas married Ellen Goddard. Therefore on the 1871 Margaret Webb (76) could very well be Thomas' mother.

JJ

Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 24 August 17 19:05 BST (UK)
Hi in 1861 census is a Thomas Webb 26 b Islington occ Police Constable residing at Police Station, Brixton Road, Lambeth
Census Ref RG09/365/89/1, and in 1851 a possible Thomas 16 with a widowed Margaret Webb 54 both born Pentonville
Census Ref HO107/1516/67/27
Keyboard86

EDIT The Ann Louisa Webb b Dec qtr 1865 St George in the East also has mmn Goddard
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 24 August 17 19:18 BST (UK)
The Ann Louisa Webb born 1865 in St Georges in the East - had a mother's maiden name of Goddard also (Ann L, appears on the 1871 census).

As Margaret's surname was Webb you would definitely think she was Thomas's mother as opposed to Ellen's.

If you look for a marriage prior to the birth of Ellen M. - born about 1863 -- of a Thomas Webb to an Ellen Goddard - and order the marriage certificate (if it isn't amongst London marriages on line) - you will get his father's name. You can then search for a parish record of that father to a Margaret to obtain her maiden name.

Trying to see them in 1841 -- but possibly Margaret aged 35 is already a widow if I am looking at the correct family.
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: JJen on Thursday 24 August 17 19:22 BST (UK)
The marriage cert for Ellen Margaret Webb's marriage cert to Edwin Joseph Rew (1895) her father's name is recorded as Thomas Ernest Bernard Webb, deceased, Police Sergeant.

JJ
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 24 August 17 19:27 BST (UK)
Hi again, bit of a coincidence but there is a birth registration of an Ellen Margaret Webb Dec qtr 1863 St George in the East with mmn ATKINS?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: JJen on Thursday 24 August 17 19:28 BST (UK)
THOMAS ERNEST BERNARD WEBB married Helena Toddard Atkins -

q2 1863, Clerkenwell
Vol 1b Page 833

JJ
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 24 August 17 19:33 BST (UK)
Great find JJ -- Atkins is the maiden name for the birth of the child Ellen M.

It is possible that the first wife died and he married another Ellen -- as the second child Ann L. Webb - (Ann Louisa?) her mother isn't Atkins ----but Goddard. (I think)



Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 24 August 17 19:36 BST (UK)
OR -- should the Toddard be Goddard?
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 24 August 17 19:41 BST (UK)
THOMAS ERNEST BERNARD WEBB married Helena Toddard Atkins -

q2 1863, Clerkenwell
Vol 1b Page 833

JJ

Marriage Locator places this marriage at St Mark, Clerkenwell (aka St Mark, Myddelton Square).

www.marriage-locator.co.uk
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 24 August 17 19:47 BST (UK)
Hi look at the Eleanor Goddard aged 8 in High Street Islip on 1851 HO107/1729/108/6?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 24 August 17 19:49 BST (UK)
Marriage, 4 April 1863 at St Mark, Myddelton Squre, Clerkenwell

Thomas Ernest Bernard Webb full age bach silversmith of Ann St.  Father: Thomas Webb, silversmith.
Helena Goddard Atkins full age spinster of Ann St.  Father: Thomas Atkins, painter.

Witnesses: Lewis [can't read surname]; Margaret Webb.
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 24 August 17 20:00 BST (UK)
In 1841 there is a mother Margaret Webb with 2 children -Thomas aged 7 and Margaret aged 10 living in St Giles in the Fields -- the Margaret aged 10, MAY be the witness at that marriage. Margaret the mother is a Laundress -- no father present so may have already died.

Strange occupation change for Thomas though - Silversmith to Policeman.

Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 24 August 17 20:06 BST (UK)
Information from Thomas' police pension records:

Thomas Webb, police sergeant, resigned 2 June 1880 aged 46.

5ft 8in; light brown hair turning grey.  Grey eyes, fresh complexion.

Born at Pentonville, 18 April 1834.  Parents: Thomas & Margaret.

Joined the Metropolitan Police force at Scotland Yard, 28 Dec 1857.

Constable until 15 May 1867; sergeant thereafter.

Wife: Ellen Webb

Address: 24 Peabody's Buildings, Spitalfields.

Pension payable per annum: £59 5s 8d.
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: Pennines on Thursday 24 August 17 20:12 BST (UK)
You just beat me to it AVM -- I've just had to delete those very details from my message!

Record worth looking at for the original poster.
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: avm228 on Thursday 24 August 17 20:57 BST (UK)
Sorry Pennines - I know how annoying it is when that happens!

In 1841 there is a mother Margaret Webb with 2 children -Thomas aged 7 and Margaret aged 10 living in St Giles in the Fields -- the Margaret aged 10, MAY be the witness at that marriage. Margaret the mother is a Laundress -- no father present so may have already died.

This looks a good possibility for the family.

The younger Margaret may be in service at 15 Albert St, St Pancras in 1851, aged 20, birthplace Hackney.

And a marriage, 2 August 1854 at St Pancras Parish Church

Thomas George Batt full age bach brass finisher of Fitzroy Place.  Father: John Batt, tailor.
Margaret Webb full age spinster of Albert St.  Father: Thomas Webb, dead.

Witness 1: William Wright
Witness 2: [can't read this]
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: longer on Friday 25 August 17 17:36 BST (UK)
Wow, I'm blown away and how much information you have all managed to find in such a short space of time.

I've been going round in circles for a few weeks now with Thomas Webb getting nowhere. But I'm now extremely happy I have such much more information to work on and can't wait to start.

I would like to say a big 'Thank you' to everyone who contributed to this post. Be assured all your efforts are much appreciated.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 25 August 17 17:44 BST (UK)
Hi look at the Eleanor Goddard aged 8 in High Street Islip on 1851 HO107/1729/108/6?
Keyboard86

Glad to have helped, it is the Helena/Eleanor/Ellen Goddard Atkins  that puzzles me, the one above seems to have mmn French, but with a John Atkins in household in Islip?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: Pennines on Friday 25 August 17 18:24 BST (UK)
I'm still struggling to find a baptism of a Thomas and Margaret Webb -- with parents Thomas Webb and Margaret though --- OR a marriage between those parents. (They didn't use much imagination in the naming of their children did they!)
Title: Re: Thomas Webb
Post by: Pennines on Friday 25 August 17 18:30 BST (UK)
In the London Church of England Marriages there is;

1828 Thomas Webb marrying Margaret Pye at St Pancras
1830 Thomas Webb marrying Margaret Smith at St Martins in the Field

NEITHER show an occupation for the groom though --- so nothing to go on really as evidence.