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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: tomwylie on Thursday 24 August 17 17:02 BST (UK)

Title: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Thursday 24 August 17 17:02 BST (UK)
Clutching at straws a bit here.
Looking for information on a James Cumming born before BMD Certificates.
He is the father of Alexander Cumming Born about 1838/9 in Fintry whose mother is recorded as Margaret Brodie.    On Margaret Brodie's death certificate 30th September 1856 at Sparmuir Farm, Fintry she is showing as SINGLE and at the time of her death resided with her BROTHER Thomas Brodie,   Alexander Cumming a scholar,   Thomas Brown aged 16 and  James Wilson aged 6 both described as "nephews" of Thomas Brodie.   So it is possible that Alexander Cumming was born out of Wedlock and lived with his mother.   I cannot find a death certificate for James Cumming and I cannot find anything definitive in the various Parish Registers.     Anybody possibly looking at the same families with any further information or suggestions?    James Cumming was probably a farm labourer?
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: ruthhelen on Thursday 24 August 17 17:38 BST (UK)
It looks like your Alexander Cumming was baptised in Fintray on 31 Aug 1840 - both Margaret Brodie and James Cumming are named in the index on Scotland's People, so having a look at the record should confirm whether this Alexander was illegitimate or not, and may also confirm the occupation of father James.

There's a James Cumming, aged 30, farmer in the 1841 census at Castle Hunger, Fintray, with presumably his mother Catherine Cumming and sister Mary - this James Cumming looks like he was baptised in Fintray on 20 Oct 1806, son of William Cumming and Katherine Connan. He's still there, unmarried, in 1851, just with sister Mary, and again in 1861, also with Mary.

By 1871, he's aged 64 and married to a 31 year old Mary Cumming. There's a marriage in Fintray in 1865 between James Cumming and Mary Mackenzie which looks a likely match. There's a death for a James Cumming, aged 68, in Fintray in 1875, which seems likely to be this James Cumming.

Ruth

Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Thursday 24 August 17 19:06 BST (UK)
Hi Ruth - that is interesting and I would like to compare notes.   I am not sure how to do this as I have just come back onto Rootschat after some years and I have forgotten how to send you a private message with my email.    I'm not certain we have the same James Cumming here, but just maybe it is.

Tom
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Thursday 24 August 17 19:46 BST (UK)
I have found an entry in an old parish register which says about an illegitimate birth .......
********** in fornication - I cannot read the word denoted by **********

Would this be an old scottish phrase or just something local to the Aberdeen area?

Can anybody tell me what the missing word would be?
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 24 August 17 20:05 BST (UK)
I have found an entry in an old parish register which says about an illegitimate birth .......
********** in fornication - I cannot read the word denoted by **********
Would this be an old scottish phrase or just something local to the Aberdeen area?
Can anybody tell me what the missing word would be?
I can think of various words that might be used there. I recommend that you attach the image of the baptism record here and let us have a look at it.

It is very likely that Margaret Brodie's pregnancy came to the attention of the Kirk Session. If so, and the record has survived, it should confirm the identity of James Cumming. The snag is that the Kirk Session records are not (yet) available online, so you would either have to request a copy to be sent from the National Records of Scotland or find someone willing to go there and transcribe any information on your behalf.
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: Morvenwalker on Thursday 24 August 17 20:40 BST (UK)
I am not sure if I am replying to the correct post as not done this for a while. In answer to the query re illegitimate births '...........' in fornication. the phrase I have seen used most often is 'begotten in fornication'
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Thursday 24 August 17 20:51 BST (UK)
Begotten in fornication would fit.   So GGGrandfather was born out of wedlock -  ooo errr"
His father's name is quoted in the Parish Register and he took the surname of his father.   Many thanks for that!
Title: Re: James Cumming
Post by: tomwylie on Friday 03 November 17 15:45 GMT (UK)
Going on from this is there anybody who can help me find details of WILLIAM ROBBIE who married Helen ALLAN?      They had a son John Robbie born about 1802 and I believed lived at Berryhill, Parish of Skene, Aberdeenshire.   John Died 1st January 1869.  He was married to Christian Scroggie whose father was John Scroggie as farmer.    John Scroggie was married to Christian Milne.    I need BMD info on the Scroggies as well.    Also I would be grateful if anybody could tell me where they are likely to be buried ???

Thanks

Tom
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Tuesday 10 April 18 19:30 BST (UK)
Just going back to this is there anybody out there who has a photograph of the following farms who might be able to let me have a copy please - from the mid 1800s ???
Berryhill Farm
Castle Hunger, Fintry
Sparmuir Farm, Fintry


Tom Wylie
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 10 April 18 19:37 BST (UK)
Why not try asking the library in Inverurie, or the Garioch Heritage Society, or some other such organisation?
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Tuesday 10 April 18 21:01 BST (UK)
I'm down in Paisley, I didnt know these resources existed.    Would you know where people who died on any of these farms might be buried??  Thanks - Tom
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 10 April 18 21:08 BST (UK)
Surely the obvious place for the Castlehungry and Sparmuir ones is in the parish kirkyard at Hatton of Fintray? http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1179269

The Berryhill ones would most likely be in the parish kirkyard at Skene - Berryhill is only about a mile from Kirkton of Skene. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4552088
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Tuesday 30 April 19 20:36 BST (UK)
Is there an index of gravestones at Hatton Of Fintray anywhere?    Or even an index of engraving?

Tom
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 30 April 19 20:55 BST (UK)
Try http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/databank/miindex/miindex.php
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Tuesday 30 April 19 21:25 BST (UK)
Thanks for that, it is useful....   Tom
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Tuesday 30 April 19 21:26 BST (UK)
PS   Is it Castlehunger   or Castle  Hunger    or Castlehungry?    It seems to vary in documents and in the OS Manps?
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 30 April 19 22:05 BST (UK)
It probably does vary - there's no such thing as 'correct' spelling before the 20th century when it comes to place and personal names.

Have a look at the OS Name Books at www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk - The Ordnance Survey went around trying to collect authentic place names in the 1850s and 1860s, and the Name Books are the result. They also noted who told them the name.
Title: Re: James CUMMING
Post by: tomwylie on Thursday 01 May 25 20:09 BST (UK)
I keep going bck to tie up loose ends.   Can anyone help?   Looking information from 1781 on church parish registers.   17th November 1871 Andrew Cumming in Castle Hunger had William.     My records show a William whom I believed to be my GGG Grandfather born on March 23 1775 in The Garrioch?? and later married Catherine Connan in 1798.      But, MY William died in Castle Hunger. 6th November 1832 - seems too much of a coincidence.   Anybody researching the CUMMINGS family who might be able to help.   Its been some time since I was on Roots Chat..  Thank you - T