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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: baldangel on Friday 18 August 17 22:27 BST (UK)
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How do you best decide which root to follow?
I am researching Harry Simmonds. I have his marriage certificate and his death certificate both suggest he was born in 1881.
His marriage certificate carries the name of George Simmonds as a witness. There are two census entries for 1891 which show a Harry Simmonds born to George in 1881 when he was 42. One is married to Eliza and was born in Old Ford, London; the other is married to Elizabeth and born in Lewisham, London when the father was 29.
There are different family members which "confirms" they a different families.
I'm cannot work out how getting the birth certificates for either/both is actually going to eliminate one or the other.
Advice please.
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A couple of basic questions before going further:
Does the marriage certificate give Harry's father as George?
If so, what is George's occupation? Does this correspond with either of the census entries you have found?
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A couple of basic questions before going further:
Does the marriage certificate give Harry's father as George?
If so, what is George's occupation? Does this correspond with either of the census entries you have found?
No, just as a witness, with no occupation given.
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Who was Harry's father, according to the marriage certificate?
Is this the same Harry Simmonds mentioned by you in an old thread?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=512648.0
Marriage to Eliza Tomkinson in Macclesfield, Jun qtr 1925; death in Macclesfield in 1946 aged 65?
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Before you try to go back further I would do some more research on Harry, so each and every census so where he says he was born, what his wife was called in each census and the occupations he had.
If you have his marriage cert it shows who is father is and what his fathers occupations is, then check census for him and see if the occupations match.
While you are checking census also check siblings, their given names and see if those names start to repeat across the generations.
I tend to research sideways when I need more information and have found some very interesting and useful details that way
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I am researching Harry Simmonds. I have his marriage certificate and his death certificate both suggest he was born in 1881.
I'm cannot work out how getting the birth certificates for either/both is actually going to eliminate one or the other.
Have you looked for "your" Harry in the 1939 Register on FindMyPast to ascertain his precise birthdate as recorded there?
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A couple of basic questions before going further:
Does the marriage certificate give Harry's father as George?
If so, what is George's occupation? Does this correspond with either of the census entries you have found?
No, just as a witness, with no occupation given.
Basic error, George is listed as father and as a labourer, neither of the census appear to show George as a labourer. One a pork butcher, one is difficult to read but it doesn't look like labourer.
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Who was Harry's father, according to the marriage certificate?
Is this the same Harry Simmonds mentioned by you in an old thread?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=512648.0
Marriage to Eliza Tomkinson in Macclesfield, Jun qtr 1925; death in Macclesfield in 1946?
Same one, gave up for a while, but now trying again.
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I am researching Harry Simmonds. I have his marriage certificate and his death certificate both suggest he was born in 1881.
I'm cannot work out how getting the birth certificates for either/both is actually going to eliminate one or the other.
Have you looked for "your" Harry in the 1939 Register on FindMyPast to ascertain his precise birthdate as recorded there?
Can you do that without a subscription? I only have Ancestry.
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There is a Harry Simmonds 3 months old in Lewisham in 1881, son of George (a miller) and Elizabeth, who looks worth investigating.
Update: no, he can be traced later on and isn't yours.
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There is a Harry Simmonds 3 months old in Lewisham in 1881, son of George (a miller) and Elizabeth, who looks worth investigating.
Why would you choose that George rather than the George from Old Ford?
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There is a Harry Simmonds 3 months old in Lewisham in 1881, son of George (a miller) and Elizabeth, who looks worth investigating.
Why would you choose that George rather than the George from Old Ford?
I am not choosing anyone, just looking at possible candidates. I have now followed up the Lewisham chap (born 16 Dec 1880) and he doesn't seem to be yours.
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There is a Harry Simmonds 3 months old in Lewisham in 1881, son of George (a miller) and Elizabeth, who looks worth investigating.
Update: no, he can be traced later on and isn't yours.
So, in theory, that only leaves Old Ford George?
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There is a Harry Simmonds 3 months old in Lewisham in 1881, son of George (a miller) and Elizabeth, who looks worth investigating.
Update: no, he can be traced later on and isn't yours.
So, in theory, that only leaves Old Ford George?
Not necessarily. A Harry could have been born Henry; a Simmonds could have been born Simmonds or Symonds or Symons. Or birthplace could be somewhere other than England & Wales.
I would suggest you access the 1939 Register (you can buy credits) to get that birthdate otherwise there is nothing sufficiently firm to go on.
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There is a Harry Simmonds 3 months old in Lewisham in 1881, son of George (a miller) and Elizabeth, who looks worth investigating.
Update: no, he can be traced later on and isn't yours.
So, in theory, that only leaves Old Ford George?
Not necessarily. A Harry could have been born Henry; a Simmonds could have been born Simmonds or Symonds or Symons.
I would suggest you access the 1939 Register (you can buy credits) to get that birthdate otherwise there is nothing sufficiently firm to go on.
That is my route then, thanks for your help.
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So, in theory, that only leaves Old Ford George?
No, there are many Harry Simmonds born around 1880/82 with a George as father, his registered name may not be Harry or Simmonds......... keep an open mind, expand your research more than ancestry.com and cross reference the information on each and every record you find.
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So, in theory, that only leaves Old Ford George?
No, there are many Harry Simmonds born around 1880/82 with a George as father, his registered name may not be Harry or Simmonds......... keep an open mind, expand your research more than ancestry.com and cross reference the information on each and every record you find.
Thanks, this looks so much easier on Who Do You Think You Are!
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The Harry in Old Ford was 5 months old in the 1881 census; his birth was registered Dec qtr 1880 Poplar as Henry Simmonds, mother's maiden name Barrett.
He can be traced later on. As Harry Simmonds he married Lilian Bowmer (aka May Lilian Bowmer) in West Ham in 1901. She died as May L Simmonds in Islington in 1919.
Harry then remarried to Eva G Tilley or Mayhew (one of these will be her maiden and one her previous married name) in Edmonton in 1926.
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The 1881 Lewisham born Harry Simmonds is on the 1891 census with a dad called George whom I think is a Carman ie he drove a vehicle.Similar to what we know as a delivery driver today.Is that the one you couldn't read?
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So, in theory, that only leaves Old Ford George?
No, there are many Harry Simmonds born around 1880/82 with a George as father, his registered name may not be Harry or Simmonds......... keep an open mind, expand your research more than ancestry.com and cross reference the information on each and every record you find.
Thanks, this looks so much easier on Who Do You Think You Are!
Yes, they don't show the tricky bits, do they :D
I suggest that, when you look at 1939 Register, you look for the Lewisham Harry Simmonds (born 16 Dec 1880 according to his baptism) and separately for your Harry in Macclesfield with the 1881 birth.
The free index suggests you will find them separately & if so you will be able to confirm what I have suggested, namely that Lewisham Harry is not the one who ended up in Macclesfield.
Having done that, you can then look for the other Harry Simmonds (Old Ford) born late 1880, with his second wife Eva G. If you can find him separately from your Macclesfield chap then you can rule him out too.
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On his 1925 marriage cert what is Harry's job and what address does his give ?
So are you saying that he was 44 when he married,was this as a bachelor or had he been married before?
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Was he described as a bachelor or a widower on his marriage certificate? Perhaps you could post all the details from the marriage certificate, it would be very helpful.
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Was he described as a bachelor or a widower on his marriage certificate?l.
That was the same question that I asked at 8am today ;D
Carol
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The Harry in Old Ford was 5 months old in the 1881 census; his birth was registered Dec qtr 1880 Poplar as Henry Simmonds, mother's maiden name Barrett.
He can be traced later on. As Harry Simmonds he married Lilian Bowmer (aka May Lilian Bowmer) in West Ham in 1901. She died as May L Simmonds in Islington in 1919.
Harry then remarried to Eva G Tilley or Mayhew (one of these will be her maiden and one her previous married name) in Edmonton in 1926.
That eliminates Old Ford Harry.
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Was he described as a bachelor or a widower on his marriage certificate?l.
That was the same question that I asked at 8am today ;D
Carol
Just picking up this for the first time today, thanks for the interest shown.
The certificate reads May 4th 1945 Harry Simmonds 43 Bachelor Labourer 2 Ct 2 House Water Street. Father's name: George Simmonds Labourer.
My grandmother's details: Eliza Tomkinson 28 Spinster (Occupation blank) Parkside Asylum. Father's name: George Tomkinson (deceased). Salt-maker.
The witnesses were George Simmonds and Elizabeth Marshall (who is no readily apparent family relative, guessing she was something to do with the asylum).
The wedding was at Christ Church, Macclesfield.
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Given that Harry married in Macclesfield district in 1925 and appears to have remained there for several years, I would investigate the following very closely:
1. The births of two children who died young, May (1921) and George (1924) Simmonds, whose mother's maiden name is listed as Oldfield. There is another child later on with "Simmons" as a surname.
The parents may be George "Simmins" and Carrie Oldfield who married in Macclesfield in 1919.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQP4-NLY
- this gives George as 58 years old, e.g. born around 1861, and his father was Thomas.
His bride appears to have been born in 1890 (she is still on the 1939 index), and was from the Macclesfield area (her father is Benjamin and her family are easier to trace).
2. The death of George Simmonds in Macclesfield in 1934, aged 75. This would put him as born about 1859. This is probably the same man who married Carrie Oldfield.
So this gives us a possible for Harry's father, as George born 1859-1861ish, and in Macclesfield by 1919, but it doesn't make it any easier to trace them in earlier censuses!
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Thank you. I will follow your leads up. It is very difficult as a relative beginner to get your head around the discrepancy in spellings of names.