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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 13:41 BST (UK)

Title: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 13:41 BST (UK)
Hi I am needing help in locating the whereabouts of the death of my gtgt grandmother. She was last located on the 1861 census for Nantwich Cheshire she must have died before the 1871 census because she is not on it with her family.
The name is Emily Doyle ( Hurley) husband Michael Doyle and sons Patrick James and Michael George.
By 1871 Patrick must be married by that time and Michael George was with his Father in lodgings in Lancashire there is no sign of Emily, her husband Michael died in 1880 in Birkenhead in a home. Son Michael George  is with his family on the 1881 census in HasLingden Lancashire. I have been stuck with this for about 10 years and don't know where to look next. Hope someone can help me. Thank you.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 17 August 17 13:47 BST (UK)
Posting 1861 so we have some idea of dates  ;)

Michael Doyle   45 bn Ireland
Emily Doyle   38 bn Ireland
Patrick J Doyle   13 bn Liverpool
Michael G Doyle   11 bn Longton, Staffordshire
RG9/ 2619 f82 p18  - Nantwich, Cheshire

1871 Barrowford, Lancashire
RG10/4158 f33 p14 - Michael is a widower - Michael G listed as George
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 14:02 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie, thanks for replying so fast. Those details are correct. It's Emily 's death I am stuck with and I don't know where to look next. She seems to have disappeared after the 1861 census I have searched Cheshire but to no avail. Thanks again
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 17 August 17 15:38 BST (UK)
I wonder if she returned to Ireland  :-\
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 15:50 BST (UK)
Hi, no I don't think so because on her husbands death it said he was a widower.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 17 August 17 15:52 BST (UK)
Doesn't mean she couldn't have gone over to Ireland to visit rellies, and died whilst she was there?
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 16:02 BST (UK)
Yes I suppose she could have.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: Maggsie on Thursday 17 August 17 16:12 BST (UK)
Hi,
This is the only Emily I found, this would have been just before the 1871 Census.
Emily Doyle d 25 Mar 1871 buried Anfield, Metropolitan Borough of Liverpool,
Record Id174903716

Maggsie
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 16:34 BST (UK)
Thank you very much, this could be her they were all together in 1861 the Patrick got married and went to live in Pembrokeshire ( that's if I got that correct ) Emily's husband must have gone off with son Michael George  to work,maybe after his wife died. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: heywood on Thursday 17 August 17 16:34 BST (UK)
I think that Emily who died 1871 in Liverpool was only 4 yrs old.

Thindle,

You say that Michael snr died in 1880 in Birkenhead in a home.

There is a published tree which has a death in 1887 in the Little Sisters Home, Birkenhead.

1881 has a Michael Doyle in that home who is a former Dock Labourer.

Are you certain that you have the right death for Michael?

Do you have Patrick James in any other census?

Heywood
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 17 August 17 16:58 BST (UK)
Hi,
This is the only Emily I found, this would have been just before the 1871 Census.
Name Emily Doyle
Event Type Burial
Event Date 1871
Event Place Anfield, Metropolitan Borough of Liverpool, Merseyside, England
Photograph Included N
Death Date 25 Mar 1871
Affiliate Record Identifier 174903716
Cemetery Anfield Cemetery and Crematorium
Maggsie

I think that is this one
Births Dec qtr 1870 
Doyle    Emily        W. Derby    8b   402    
   
Deaths Mar qtr 1871   
Doyle    Emily   age  0 years    W. Derby    8b   548   

Probably 4 months on the GRO index
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 17:21 BST (UK)
It's funny you should say West Derby because that is were Patrick was born and I think married.Perhaps she lived with Patrick while her husband worked away. I think Patrick went to Pembrokeshire with his wife ,but I can't be certain.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Thursday 17 August 17 17:26 BST (UK)
Could she have been with one of her children,  in Lancashire at the time of death, for example?
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 17:32 BST (UK)
I think she could have lived with her eldest son Patrick James
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Thursday 17 August 17 17:54 BST (UK)
Busy trying to track him down at moment....to see if her death is near to where he's living at the time
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Thursday 17 August 17 17:58 BST (UK)
Thank you I hope you are lucky.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 18 August 17 15:10 BST (UK)
... There seem to be as hell of a lot of Patrick Doyles ( or Patricks Doyle?) around of approximately the same age. So far none seem to me to fit.
Loads of online Ancestry Trees seem to share the same unsourced information. Have you followed any of them up, thindle?
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Friday 18 August 17 15:22 BST (UK)
Hi no I haven't, I can't afford to be a member of Ancestry, it's too costly at my age, I am 77
Patrick James was born 1848 in West Derby. His brother my gt grandfather was Michael George Doyle he went by the name of  George since his father was Michael. I was really the death of Emily the mother who I was seeking she seemed to disappear after the 1861 census in Nantwich. Thanks
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: heywood on Friday 18 August 17 16:25 BST (UK)
Yes she does seem to disappear. She might have left Michael and took up with someone else and taken that name - it's difficult.

ThrellfallYorky mentioned the trees with unsourced information and part of that is the 1887 death of Michael Doyle in a home in Birkenhead.
I asked you about your information that Michael died in 1880 in a home in Birkenhead. I wonder is that proven.

I ask this in trying to find Emily and Patrick James.

There is a marriage in Nantwich 1875 - James Doyle to Mary Ann Evans but I can't find them in 1881 nor 1871. :-\ to see if it is your man.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Friday 18 August 17 19:23 BST (UK)
Hi, he died in 1887 I got it wrong I have notification of his death.  I also think Emily may have gone to live with Patrick she would be too old to remarry. Patrick James married in 1872 to Fanny Blanche Tooth. They married in Pembroke Dock Dyfed Wales  That is all I know and still can't find her death.
I couldn't find a marriage for Michael George to Agnes McGuire either, I have looked under Michael, Michael George and George, the name he used but I still couldn't find a marriage. their first child Emily Agnes was born in 1877 in Accrington Lancashire and he wasn't married in 1871 because he was with his father working, so it must have been after then and before 1877.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: heywood on Friday 18 August 17 19:50 BST (UK)
I apologise for going on but do you know that Michael who died in 1887 is yours?
There is a Michael in the home in 1881 census as I said and I wondered if the death was him rather than your Michael.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: heywood on Friday 18 August 17 20:10 BST (UK)
Fanny Blanche Tooth looks to have married John Edward Fincham in Pembroke 1872. They are in 1881 census living in Radnorshire.

Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Friday 18 August 17 21:34 BST (UK)
Right then I have picked the wrong one on the free bmds Patrick James had  a Fanny Blanche Tooth and a Teresa James all in the same group along with the Edward.......
 So, if it wasn't Fanny it must be Teresa , I must try and see into it more 
The death of Michael in 1887 It turned out that it was the correct age and it said he was a widower.
If there was another one how would I find out about him ?
It is the same Michael Doyle on the 1881 census as a patient he died in 1887 at the home.
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: heywood on Friday 18 August 17 22:09 BST (UK)
I can't see Patrick and Teresa in later censuses and without the marriage details you would not know if he is yours. It is not an uncommon name.

Michael in the home is a former Dock labourer whilst yours is a Nailmaker or Mill machinist  :-\
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: heywood on Friday 18 August 17 22:46 BST (UK)
Worth looking at:
1881 3874 /74 /48

Michael Doyle 66 yrs b Ireland ex Machine Fitter boarding in Pilkington, Lancs (Bury registration district) but he is shown as unmarried.

1881 3863 /88 /24

Michael Doyle 60 yrs a widower b Ireland General Labourer lodging in Bury, Lancs

1891 3354 /52

Micheal Doyle 77 yrs married Scale Maker lodging in Haslingden


There is a death in 1886 for one of the Bury ones
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Friday 18 August 17 23:23 BST (UK)
Hi, while you could be right I can't find a connection with Bury. All I know is that he is with one of his sons in 1871 in Barrowford in a Lodging House . The next census the son who calls himself George is with his own family in Haslingden  in a boarding house in 1891 the family lived in Barnoldswick , then moved to Clayton le Moors where the rest of us came from.
The places they lived in..
West Derby
Longton Staffordshire
Nantwich Cheshire
To be honest I am getting a bit fed up as I can't get any further. I shall have to call it a day and forget about it all. Thank you for your help.Theresa
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: heywood on Saturday 19 August 17 08:07 BST (UK)
I am not suggesting that the Bury ones may be him but just suggesting that they are as, if not  more, likely to be him than the man in Birkenhead.
I agree that this is difficult with such a common name. It is a pity that Emily can't be found though.
I didn't post this death earlier because it was yet another area but of course Clayton le Moors is Blackburn district so thought I would post it now. ;)

June quarter 1895 Blackburn vol 8e pg 313
Michael Doyle  82 yrs
 
Good luck
heywood
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Wednesday 23 August 17 13:58 BST (UK)
Hi thanks for looking for me, I appreciate all you have done. I realise it is hard for me but I can't check census etc because I am not a full member of any where the fees are too costly when your 77 years old I am only on a small pension and husband only has his pension. I had the details of his son Michael George known as George. Had a daughter Jane Doyle in 1895 they lived at that time in Barnoldswick which was Yorkshire then it is now in Lancashire. She died in 1891 and was registered at Blackburn. All people living in Accrington Clayton le moors where registered in HasLingden now Accrington Church, Owaldtwistle were Blackburn . So I don't know where they were living in 1991 when she died.  I am sure I have seen 1891 census where the mother Agnes, Emily, and Rose Hannah were on the Clayton le moors Census living in Church st Clayton le Moors. Jane must have died  as she isn't on. It states that Agnes the mother is a widow. There is no sign of The Grandfather Michael either. The last census I saw father Michael and son Michael George was on the 1871 census in Barrowford.  I used to be able to look at census on Ancestry but now they won't let me without joining. . That is out of the Question .
Anyway thanks again Theresa
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 23 August 17 15:09 BST (UK)
Many of us on here are pensioners on low incomes so understand what you are saying.  Familysearch does cover most census and it is free.  ;D
  https://www.familysearch.org/hr/search

Lancashire is very well covered for parish records and registrations
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

https://www.freereg.org.uk/
https://www.freecen.org.uk/
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 23 August 17 15:13 BST (UK)
I am sure I have seen 1891 census where the mother Agnes, Emily, and Rose Hannah were on the Clayton le moors Census living in Church st Clayton le Moors.

1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QT1S-CZM

It looks as though Jane died later that year
DOYLE, JANE       age 6      1891  December Quarter in BLACKBURN  Volume 08E  Page 240
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Wednesday 23 August 17 17:06 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie, thank you ever so much for the Family search info I will have a look. I know there are many elderly people on pensions and can't afford the fees  but for people like you who knows that there are one or two free sites. People like me would never find out . Thanks again, perhaps I will get through my brick wall Theresa
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 23 August 17 18:00 BST (UK)
I don't know how near you are to a County library but most of them in the UK have free Ancestry access and some have FindMyPast too
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: thindle on Wednesday 23 August 17 18:22 BST (UK)
Hi, I am about 25 miles away and can't drive that distance at the moment, I will just look at Family search and  the Parish clerks site thanks for suggesting the Library
Title: Re: Death of my gt grandmother
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 24 August 17 16:33 BST (UK)
Do you not have a more local library  :-\  25 miles is a long way just to look at Ancestry for a couple of hours