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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Whyatt on Tuesday 15 August 17 09:27 BST (UK)
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I am seeking information on the Phoenix and its voyage from Liverpool to Melbourne from July to October 1854.
The Phoenix is the name of more than one vessel sailing in Australian waters at this time, but this Phoenix was a ship of 906 ton, in 1851 being part perhaps of the White Star Line, but by 1854 belonging to the Liverpool Line.
The Phoenix berthed in Melbourne on 29 October 1854, having sailed from Liverpool on 22 or 23 July.
The Liverpool Albion is reported as saying in its issue of July 17 1851 that:
"The Phoenix, belonging to Mr. Walthew's Liverpool line of packets, has nearly her complement of passengers (350) and is now lying in the river, and will sail on Wednesday [23 July 1854, later reported as 20-22 July] for Melbourne.
She is expected to make a quick passage.- Liverpool Albion, July 17"
I have found no news of the voyage, beyond a report that another vessel, The Adelaide, had boarded the Phoenix on September 5 in 11 ° 45' south, 24° 3' west, and found all well and the report in his birth certificate, that my Gt-Grandparents’ first child, David Phillips, was born at sea on 12 October 1854.
The day following her arrival in Melbourne, on 30 October 1854, the Argus reported –
"October 29. - Phoenix, ship, 960 (sic) tons, William Meppeth, from Liverpool 21st July. Passengers cabin : Mr. and Mrs. Morgan, Mr. and Mrs. Tyler, Messrs. McClere, Wilmot, Hillier, and three hundred and sixty in the intermediate and steerage.
Captain Meppeth, agent."
Apart from those names, I have been unable locate the list of passengers on the Phoenix in the otherwise almost complete shipping and passenger records of the period.
(The Phoenix sailed from Melbourne on 25 or 27 November for Bombay, en route presumably for Liverpool.)
I should be interested to hear of any other information concerning the Phoenix and/or its passengers.
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Welcome to rootschat!
Sorry cannot help with passenger list, maybe one of Australian posters will be able to help you, but can tell you a little about the vessel PHOENIX, official number 25798. Built in New Brunswick in 1851. Net registered tonnage 801, Gross 906 tons, Length 148.7 feet, Breadth 30.1, depth 21.4.
Commercial Code Single P H L T. Captain in 1854 W Moppet(t).
As she returned to a UK port in 1855, Her crew agreement and hopefully her logbook should be held at
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4068574
Her logbook should give some details of the voyage such as ports called at, ships spoken with and details of Births and Deaths on board.
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Thank you Seaweed - as a newcomer I am very much encouraged by your prompt and helpful response. I will be in London later this year and I will trek out to Kew to inspect the log if it exists, although I am aware of the difficulties there - and I suspect the master of the Phoenix was not very diligent in administrative matters: for example, I have never been able to find any record of the birth on board of David Phillips on 12 October 1854 in lists of "Births at Sea".
However the information you provided adds to and confirms what I know of the Phoenix and I thank you.
Whyatt
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Hi Whyatt,
I have haven't found the ship list you were after but did find this interesting article from a meeting of the passengers on the ship. It isn't what you were after but does give you some insight to their travels.
EDIT: This is the link to the newspaper in TROVE. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4800053
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Dear stsearcher
For some years I had thought I had searched the Melbourne newspapers and records for news of the Phoenix and her voyage, and in particular I thought I had exhausted the material to be found on Trove at the NLA, but within a day or so of my post, you have happily proved me wrong!
Thank you so much for directing me to the advertising columns and the report of the testimonial address to the captain of the ship. I had always feared a very ordinary, if not terrible voyage. One trusts that the address to the good Captain was accompanied by a suitably generous collection.
Again thank you for taking the time and interest to respond to my enquiry.
Whyatt
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Hi Whyatt - when I searched online for immigration details it advised I could obtain passenger lists from the (free) Library version of Ancestry.com. I attended tonight - found the ship's arrival documented but didn't get a positive result other than a listing of the following families:
Collier x 5 people
Kelly x 4 people
Lowden x 2 people
S McDonald - 1 person
James Petherick - 1 person
William Telford - 1 person
If any of these families are of interest - I can photocopy that page for you.
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No problem at all Whyatt. I am always looking for a hunt on TROVE, it is such a wonderful resource to have. You will probably find that some wonderful volunteer has corrected some text on the page since your last hunt or possibly a new newspaper has gone online. The only other one of interest I came across was one from a hotel advertising to people from the Phoenix to use their accomodation.
I have access to the British Newspaper archive for the next couple of weeks if you need anything looked up there.
Well done to AussieJulie, that was dedication.
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The Public Records Office in Victoria has sold out their passenger lists to ancestry but you can still look for the ship. Unfortunately the Phoenix doesn't show up for 1854 but it does for 1856 and 1857.
On ancestry if you search the Victoria Australia Assisted & Unassisted Passenger Lists 1839-1923 index using Ship Name = ph*x and Arrival = 1854 you get one name, Aubert. If your subscription will allow, maybe if you look at that image you might be able to browse the pages for other names.
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Thank you AussieJulie and stsearcher and now miri– I do appreciate your efforts.
From your work and other sources I can now identify the following 14 names/family groups as passengers on board the Phoenix on her voyage from Liverpool to Melbourne, arriving 29 October 1854:
Per Ancestry lists identified by AussieJulie
Collier x 5 people
Kelly x 4 people
Lowden x 2 people
S McDonald - 1 person
Per press report in The Argus Monday 30 October 1854
Cabin Passengers
Mr. and Mrs. Morgan,
Mr. and Mrs. Tyler,
Mr McClere,
Mr Wilmot,
Mr Hillier
Per testimonial The Argus Wednesday 8 November 1854
Thomas Main
Mr Percy
Mr Dawson
Per Missing persons enquiries
Harriet Speed The Argus Saturday 4 November 1854
William Weightman The Argus Friday 10 November 1854
Per later birth registration of David Phillips –
Thomas Phillips
Anne(e) Phillips
David Phillips (born 12 October 1854, registered 4 February 1856)
As you might guess, my interest in the Phoenix first arises from who accompanied my Welsh forebears, Thomas and Ann(e) Phillips (nee Rowlands), and their son David, born en route, to Melbourne. (They had married in the parish church of St John the Baptist in Aberdare Glamorganshire, Wales on 29th October, 1853, exactly twelve months before the Phoenix berthed in Melbourne.)
The Welsh families from which they came were large and whilst I have a good handle on the Rowlands family through censuses from 1841, including members of that family who came to Victoria, the later details for the Phillips fade after 1841, (although Thomas Phillips’ mother, Mary, nee Howells, appears to have survived until 1861). But perhaps Thomas’ brother, John Phillips, came to Victoria.
When Thomas Phillips of Amherst was entered on the Victorian electoral role in 1856, the following entry at the same place was John Philips (sic) – Thomas had a brother named John (who didn’t) but whether he emigrated or not is unclear.
Responding to miri, I will try again via Ancestry and the cd-roms and the like of the shipping lists maintained at the State Library but I am not particularly hopeful – perhaps thirty years ago when the records were available in hard copy on open shelves in the library, I had no success then in finding the Phoenix passenger lists for 1854.
However, clearly some people are interested specifically in the Phoenix – entries have been tagged in Trove and so on – and I am impressed with the responses on RootsChat!
Wyatt
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Per later birth registration of David Phillips –
Thomas Phillips
Anne(e) Phillips
David Phillips (born 12 October 1854, registered 4 February 1856)
You have compiled a great amount of information!
When I was checking the BDM of VIC I assumed his birth record was a different one. There seems to be records of 3 people being born on the Phoenix in 1854. Would this be a different ship?
The three records are -
Unnamed PHILIPS, Male, Ship Phoenix, Father - Thomas PHILIPS, Mother - Margaret (Unknown), Birth - At Sea.
Unnamed DONALDSON, Male, Father - Thomas DONALDSON, Mother - Margaret (Unknown)
Agnes Phoenix EVANS, Female, Father - Thomas EVANS, Mother - Sarah (Britin)
I don't know if this helps or hinders?
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Well I am amazed stsearcher.
The baby Philips (sometimes one l, later two), is almost certainly the son of my gt-grandfather, Thomas. How the mother came to be recorded as Margaret I cannot say.
And what a happy reflection on the voyage is giving baby Aggie Evans Phoenix as a second name!
Again thank you so much - and how did you access this information? I am sure I have looked in births at sea over the years (but perhaps I was looking for a David Phillips when his name was yet to be recorded).
Once more, my thanks
Whyatt
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I can't tell you how much fun I have had looking for these little pieces of information. It has just been good to be able to help in this small way.
The information came from https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj in the "Birth's at sea" section. And I just searched for the ship in that year and not by any name. Boredom lead to the find, I originally searched for "Phillips" and came up with nothing. I came back to it later and did the ship search.
I haven't ever used that search before so it is good to know it is there. I may go through my own tree and see if it leads to anything. Helping makes my own research better.
Good luck.
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stsearcher
Thank you for this and your previous generous advice - I will follow up.
Sincerely
Whyatt
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:) :) :)
May I mention that the actual PROV holdings that have been digitised and uploaded to commercial family history websites continue to be held at PROV.
May I mention that the digitised image may well provide the clue re the missing Phoenix image. You see, the digitised image has listed the Cabin Passengers: Telford, McDonald, Mrs Collier + 4 children (aged 12, 6, 4,2) and Mrs Lowden + child (aged 7) as though they are passengers on the Claudine out of Wellington, New Zealand and that is likely because the original documentation includes a signed statement which reads 'We hereby certify that the above is the correct list of names and Descriptions of all the Passengers who embarked at the Port of Wellington'.
Here is a link to RChat's Australia Board : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia/ I am NSW centric, and I know there are many RChatters on that board who have much better understanding of Victoria's archives as their focus is Vic.
Thank you AussieJulie and stsearcher and now miri– I do appreciate your efforts.
From your work and other sources I can now identify the following 14 names/family groups as passengers on board the Phoenix on her voyage from Liverpool to Melbourne, arriving 29 October 1854:
Per Ancestry lists identified by AussieJulie
Collier x 5 people
Kelly x 4 people
Lowden x 2 people
S McDonald - 1 person ......
JM
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New Zealand papers
Wellington Independent 7 October 1854
Sailed
Oct 5 schoner Claudine 157 tons, Capt. Yule for Melbourne. Passengers – Mr W Telford, Mrs Collier and four children, Mrs Lowden and child, Messrs S McDonald, L Petherick, D & J Kelby, Mr and Mrs Kelby and child.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
JM
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I am seeking information on the Phoenix and its voyage from Liverpool to Melbourne from July to October 1854.
The PROV catalogue does not show any surviving records for that voyage.
Debra :)
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Hi majm
Thank majm for you input and your careful checking of earlier posts - I appreciate the time and effort you have given in responding.
As is evident, I am a first-timer on RootsChat (or any other family history chat site for that matter) and I am feeling my way.
Over the years I have noted how easy it is for confusion to arise from misinterpretation of material - for example, for a long time I had thought the Phoenix was subsequently wrecked in Torres Strait in 1856 or thereabouts - it was in fact a steamer of the same name!
Again thank you
Whyatt