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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: warrawillah on Monday 14 August 17 14:14 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I have a James BRAGG baptised 1803 in Handsworth, Staffordshire, son of James and Maria. I am trying to find some more details of this family as I have not been able to confirm these details. James was in South Australia by 1860 when he married Jane GRAINGER at Mitcham, South Australia.
Any help appreciated,
Thank you,
Marie in Sydney.
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the only baptism I can find is select baptisms
5 July 1829
St Marys Handsworth Staffordshire
James Bragg
parents James & Maria Bragg
this James was still in England in 1861
are you certain of his y.o.b. and p.o.b.??
Suz
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there is this baptism - different place different parents but similar placename
St Phillips Birmingham Warwickshire
both baptised on 10 April 1813
James Bragg born 28 Sept 1808
Jemima Bragg born 23 may 1812
address Handsworth Parish
parents John & Jemima Bragg
Suz
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The James Bragg born 1803 Hednesford is in Aston Warwickshire in 1861 married to Ann and died there in 1879
They have a son b 1827 also called James but he is still there on the 1861 as well
Willow x
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Thank you Suzard. I think the 1829 one makes more sense. After all, he didn't marry till 1860 and kept having children for the next 20 years. I wonder how I can be sure this is him.
Marie
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Thank you WIllow. I guess that eliminates him then. Every little helps.
Marie
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I think it is the 1829 one as I cant find him after the 1851 census so here are the details
1841 Birmingham al; born in county except Maria
Maria Bragg 45 silver burnisher
Louisa Bragg 18
Ann Bragg 14
James Bragg 12
William Bragg
Benjamin Bragg 1
1851 Factory Road Birmingham
Maria 55 widow b Handsworth
James 21 b Birmingham silver chaser
William 15 b Birmingham
James Bragg married Maria Hodgetts 18.6.1815 St Martins Birmingham
it looks like James senior died 1841 aged 49
Willow x
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this is just an indexed record , but the marriage of James Bragg to Jane Grainger , 6 Nov 1860 in Clare , Adelaide , gives his father's name as Thomas Bragg. On another site the record says the marriage took place at St Michael's Church , Mitcham but it still has the father as Thomas Bragg.
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THank you. I just found that marriage record too. Looks like I am back to square one! Thank you everyone for your help.
Marie
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This may be related;
BRAGG nee HYDE Susanna died 1860-05-17 aged ?, buried &/or memorialised at Mitcham Church of England (Anglican) Cemetery
BRAGG James, Susanna HYDE arrived in SA by 1850
BRAGG Mary Jane born 1862-08-17 at Mitcham, father BRAGG James, mother GRAINGER Jane
Source www.familyhistorysa.info
I wonder if he was Widowed when he married Jane Grainger (dates fit)
Trish :)
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There is a James Bragg aged 23 in Birmingham 1841 wife Susan children Mary 3 and Sarah 1 hes a brass founder
Willow x
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I see why you have him born 1803;
Birth: 1803
Death: 1884
South Australia, Australia
Verger of St Michael's Church from its opening in 1852 until 1881.****
Burial:
Mitcham Anglican Cemetery
Mitcham
Mitcham City
South Australia, Australia
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Thats the one Willow :)
Marriage;
17 October 1837, Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire, England
James BRAGG to Susanna HYDE
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Just made it into Civil Reg which will have his Fathers name/occp
Marriage Reg Dec 1837 Portsea Island 7 224
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He married Susannah Hyde in Portsea in Hampshire in 1837. She died in 1860 in Mitcham, South Australia
and he remarried to Jane Grainger shortly afterwards the same year. I guess he may have had children with his first wife but haven't found their arrival yet. He had 5 children with Jane between 1862 and 1880. Plenty of life in the old boy!
Thanks for your help,
Marie
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annoyingly the marriage is not on FindMyPast
might not be the right couple in couple in Birmingham because they are in Portsmouth though James is down as not born in parish
Willow x
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1851 states James born 1815 Toothampton Devon
They are still in Portsmouth 1861 :(
Willow x
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So according to the Newpaper article on a Tree;
It has John Grainger was largely responsible for building the Church. His Daug married the Verger James Bragg.
So if he was born 1803 as Burial says and the Verger he was quite a boy!
So the one age age 23 in 1841 Census is too young.
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Thats unless he has dropped his age a lot, looks like you are right Willow.
BRAGG, LILLY BETHIAH, Mothers mn HYDE
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND UNION Volume 07 Page 122
Oops you reply came through must look ::)
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Something strange going on here ;D
James is widowed in 1871
So 2 James Braggs with Wives Susanna Hyde?
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Sorry must go to bed 1.am here :)
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Thank you Trish for all your detective work. James was definitely widowed in South Australia in 1860, so looks like there were two married to Susannahs.
Marie
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Your welcome Marie.
I have tried to track every James Bragg c 1803 on 1841/1851 Census and forwards to see if they are still in England in 1861.
All the ones I found were.
Do you have a occp for James or his Father Thomas from his Marriage/Death Cert?
Trish :)
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No. I haven't yet found his shipping record either. All I know he was verger of the C of E at Mitcham from 1852 till 1881. He was one of the locals at an inquest in 1848, so was here by then.
I might have to invest some money in certificates I think. My grandson is 14 and not terribly interested yet, but hopefully he will value it later.
Marie
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Yes Marie the Certs are very important. My Children are 28/24 and not very interested either. I wasnt at their age either otherwise I would have quizzed my Parents while they still were alive!
If you get the Certs in the future just add to this and all who have helped will be notified of the results and hopefully we can help more.
Trish :)
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I think the marriage of James Bragg to Susannah Hyde is a bit of a red herring Lilly is still in Portsea in 1868 when she marries
James must have been in Mitcham before 1848 so maybe he wasn't on the 1841 census
Willow x
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On Ancestry there is in the criminal records a 17 year old James Bragg before Middlesex sessions transported for life in 1822
He was transported on the ship 'Arab' leaving on 3.7.1822 and arrived on 22.11.1822
Willow x
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Right don't know if this is the right one but if you go here https://talis.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/ and search under Bragg James you can download the marriage certificate of a James Bragg to a Hannah Pizey in 1837
Could this be James? also other records on there regarding James
Quite a lot of interesting links here http://familyhistoryresearch.com.au/courses/IntroFamilyHistory/ch4_Convicts.htm#Tas
Willow x
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Found this arrival. Could be them. Now to look and see if I can find them arriving in Tasmania.
BRAGG J(ames?), wife arrived in SA 1846-04-05 aboard Henry (2) from Launceston
He was definitely married to Susanna. The SA death records show BRAGG nee HYDE Susanna died 1860-05-17 at Mitcham; relative/informant James (H); buried Mitcham Anglican Cemetery.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Marie
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He married Susannah Hyde in Portsea in Hampshire in 1837. She died in 1860 in Mitcham, South Australia
and he remarried to Jane Grainger shortly afterwards the same year. I guess he may have had children with his first wife but haven't found their arrival yet. He had 5 children with Jane between 1862 and 1880. Plenty of life in the old boy!
Thanks for your help,
Marie
The James Bragg and Susannah Hyde who married Portsea are not the right couple James is still in Portsea in 1871 and died there in 1883 Susannah died in 1869 their last child was born in 1857
Willow x
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Ha!
10.3.1828 Handsworth Staffordshire marriage of John Bragg to Susannah Hyde
I think you are looking at the wrong Bragg in relation to the Susannah's death in 1860 and it only says that the informant is James not that he is her husband
The James that was transported in 1822 is listed as Joseph when he arrives
Willow x
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Interesting marriage at Handsworth, but JOHN Bragg????? Now I am even more confused.
I am sure the convict is incorrect as there was no ex-convict Bragg listed in the SA convict docs (for free convicts settling there) and there was no wife called Hannah in SA either. Also, would a convict be a verger for all those years? Just a thought.
I'm fairly sure the SA death notice for Susanna Bragg in 1860 is correct as the (H) signifies husband I think. Also the refs to Mitcham are relevant as this is where James lived and worked.
Marie
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Its the only Bragg/Hyde marriage I could find that wasn't the couple that stayed in England
I think you need it invest in some certificate to crack this one further
Willow x
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Yes Willow. I think you're right. Thank you so much for all of your ideas and input.
PS Wasn't able to attend but should have graduated today with a Diploma in Family History from University of Tasmania. Not bad for a 70 year old in very poor health!
Regards,
Marie
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Congratulations! I'm sorry you couldn't make the graduation though
Let us know what you find out from the certificates and we can do a bit more digging for you
Willow x