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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: warrawillah on Monday 14 August 17 14:14 BST (UK)

Title: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Monday 14 August 17 14:14 BST (UK)
Hi all,
 I have a James BRAGG baptised 1803 in Handsworth, Staffordshire, son of James and Maria. I am trying to find some more details of this family as I have not been able to confirm these details. James was in South Australia by 1860 when he married Jane GRAINGER at Mitcham, South Australia.
Any help appreciated,
Thank you,
 Marie in Sydney.
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: suzard on Monday 14 August 17 14:28 BST (UK)
the only baptism I can find is select baptisms
5 July 1829
St Marys Handsworth Staffordshire
James Bragg
parents James & Maria Bragg

this James was still in England in 1861

are you certain of his y.o.b. and p.o.b.??

Suz
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: suzard on Monday 14 August 17 14:41 BST (UK)
there is this baptism - different place different parents but similar placename

St Phillips Birmingham Warwickshire
both baptised on 10 April 1813
James Bragg born 28 Sept 1808
Jemima Bragg born 23 may 1812
address Handsworth Parish
parents John & Jemima Bragg

Suz
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 14 August 17 14:43 BST (UK)
The James Bragg born 1803 Hednesford is in Aston Warwickshire in 1861 married to Ann and died there in 1879

They have a son b 1827 also called James but he is still there on the 1861 as well

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Monday 14 August 17 14:44 BST (UK)
Thank you Suzard. I think the 1829 one makes more sense. After all, he didn't marry till 1860 and kept having children for the next 20 years. I wonder how I can be sure this is him.

Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Monday 14 August 17 14:46 BST (UK)
Thank you WIllow. I guess that eliminates him then. Every little helps.

Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 14 August 17 14:56 BST (UK)
I think it is the 1829 one as I cant find him after the 1851 census so here are the details

1841 Birmingham al; born in county except Maria

Maria Bragg 45 silver burnisher
Louisa Bragg 18
Ann Bragg 14
James Bragg 12
William Bragg
Benjamin Bragg 1

1851 Factory Road Birmingham

Maria 55 widow b Handsworth
James 21 b Birmingham silver chaser
William 15 b Birmingham

James Bragg married Maria Hodgetts 18.6.1815 St Martins Birmingham

it looks like James senior died 1841 aged 49

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Christine53 on Monday 14 August 17 15:06 BST (UK)
this is just an indexed record , but the marriage of James Bragg to Jane Grainger , 6 Nov 1860 in Clare , Adelaide , gives his father's name as Thomas Bragg. On another site the record says the marriage took place at St Michael's Church , Mitcham but it still has the father as Thomas Bragg.
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Monday 14 August 17 15:09 BST (UK)
THank you. I just found that marriage record too. Looks like I am back to square one! Thank you everyone for your help.

Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 15:26 BST (UK)
This may be related;

BRAGG nee HYDE Susanna died 1860-05-17 aged ?, buried &/or memorialised at Mitcham Church of England (Anglican) Cemetery

BRAGG James, Susanna HYDE arrived in SA by 1850

BRAGG Mary Jane born 1862-08-17 at Mitcham, father BRAGG James, mother GRAINGER Jane

Source www.familyhistorysa.info

I wonder if he was Widowed when he married Jane Grainger (dates fit)


Trish :)

Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 14 August 17 15:32 BST (UK)
There is a James Bragg aged 23 in Birmingham 1841 wife Susan children Mary 3 and Sarah 1 hes a brass founder

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 15:32 BST (UK)
I see why you have him born 1803;

Birth:    1803
Death:    1884
South Australia, Australia

Verger of St Michael's Church from its opening in 1852 until 1881.****
 
Burial:
Mitcham Anglican Cemetery
Mitcham
Mitcham City
South Australia, Australia
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 15:33 BST (UK)
Thats the one Willow :)

Marriage;
17 October 1837, Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire, England
James BRAGG to Susanna HYDE
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 15:38 BST (UK)
Just made it into Civil Reg which will have his Fathers name/occp

Marriage Reg Dec 1837 Portsea Island   7 224 
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Monday 14 August 17 15:38 BST (UK)
He married Susannah Hyde in Portsea in Hampshire in 1837. She died in 1860 in Mitcham, South Australia
and he remarried to Jane Grainger shortly afterwards the same year. I guess he may have had children with his first wife but haven't found their arrival yet. He had 5 children with Jane between 1862 and 1880. Plenty of life in the old boy!

Thanks for your help,
 Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 14 August 17 15:42 BST (UK)
annoyingly the marriage is not on FindMyPast

might not be the right couple in couple in Birmingham because they are in Portsmouth though James is down as not born in parish

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 14 August 17 15:45 BST (UK)
1851 states James born 1815 Toothampton Devon

They are still in Portsmouth 1861  :(

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 15:47 BST (UK)
So according to the Newpaper article on a Tree;

It has John Grainger was largely responsible for building the Church. His Daug married the Verger James Bragg.

So if he was born 1803 as Burial says and the Verger he was quite a boy!

So the one age age 23 in 1841 Census is too young.
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 15:54 BST (UK)
Thats unless he has dropped his age a lot, looks like you are right Willow.

BRAGG, LILLY  BETHIAH, Mothers mn   HYDE
GRO Reference: 1847  D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND UNION  Volume 07  Page 122

Oops you reply came through must look ::)
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 15:58 BST (UK)
Something strange going on here ;D
James is widowed in 1871

So 2 James Braggs with Wives Susanna Hyde?
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 August 17 16:00 BST (UK)
Sorry must go to bed 1.am here :)
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Thursday 17 August 17 08:52 BST (UK)
Thank you Trish for all your detective work. James was definitely widowed in South Australia in 1860, so looks like there were two married to Susannahs.

Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 17 August 17 13:00 BST (UK)
Your welcome Marie.

I have tried to track every James Bragg c 1803 on 1841/1851 Census and forwards to see if they are still in England in 1861.
All the ones I found were.

Do you have a occp for James or his Father Thomas from his Marriage/Death Cert?

Trish  :)
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Thursday 17 August 17 14:42 BST (UK)
No. I haven't yet found his shipping record either. All I know he was verger of the C of E at Mitcham from 1852 till 1881. He was one of the locals at an inquest in 1848, so was here by then.

I might have to invest some money in certificates I think. My grandson is 14 and not terribly interested yet, but hopefully he will value it later.

Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 17 August 17 15:20 BST (UK)
Yes Marie the Certs are very important. My Children are 28/24 and not very interested either. I wasnt at their age either otherwise I would have quizzed my Parents while they still were alive!

If you get the Certs in the future just add to this and all who have helped will be notified of the results and hopefully we can help more.


Trish :)
Title: Re: James BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 17 August 17 15:45 BST (UK)
I think the marriage of James Bragg to Susannah Hyde is a bit of a red herring Lilly is still in Portsea in 1868 when she marries

James must have been in Mitcham before 1848 so maybe he wasn't on the 1841 census

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 17 August 17 15:57 BST (UK)
On Ancestry there is in the criminal records a 17 year old James Bragg before Middlesex sessions transported for life in 1822

He was transported on the ship 'Arab' leaving on 3.7.1822 and arrived on 22.11.1822

Willow x
Title: Re: James BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 17 August 17 16:58 BST (UK)
Right don't know if this is the right one but if you go here https://talis.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/ and search under Bragg James you can download the marriage certificate of a James Bragg to a Hannah Pizey in 1837

Could this be James? also other records on there regarding James

Quite a lot of interesting links here http://familyhistoryresearch.com.au/courses/IntroFamilyHistory/ch4_Convicts.htm#Tas

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Friday 18 August 17 02:18 BST (UK)
Found this arrival. Could be them. Now to look and see if I can find them arriving in Tasmania.
BRAGG J(ames?), wife arrived in SA 1846-04-05 aboard Henry (2) from Launceston

He was definitely married to Susanna. The SA death records show BRAGG nee HYDE Susanna died 1860-05-17 at Mitcham; relative/informant James (H); buried Mitcham Anglican Cemetery.

Curiouser and curiouser.
Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 18 August 17 09:39 BST (UK)
He married Susannah Hyde in Portsea in Hampshire in 1837. She died in 1860 in Mitcham, South Australia
and he remarried to Jane Grainger shortly afterwards the same year. I guess he may have had children with his first wife but haven't found their arrival yet. He had 5 children with Jane between 1862 and 1880. Plenty of life in the old boy!

Thanks for your help,
 Marie

The James Bragg and Susannah Hyde who married Portsea are not the right couple James is still in Portsea in 1871 and died there in 1883 Susannah died in 1869 their last child was born in 1857

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 18 August 17 10:17 BST (UK)
Ha!

10.3.1828 Handsworth Staffordshire marriage of John Bragg to Susannah Hyde

I think you are looking at the wrong Bragg in relation to the Susannah's death in 1860 and it only says that the informant is James not that he is her husband

The James that was transported in 1822 is listed as Joseph when he arrives

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Friday 18 August 17 12:48 BST (UK)
Interesting marriage at Handsworth, but JOHN Bragg????? Now I am even more confused.

 I am sure the convict is incorrect as there was no ex-convict Bragg listed in the SA convict docs (for free convicts settling there) and there was no wife called Hannah in SA either. Also, would a convict be a verger for all those years? Just a thought.

I'm fairly sure the SA death notice for Susanna Bragg in 1860 is correct as the (H) signifies husband I think. Also the refs to Mitcham are relevant as this is where James lived and worked.

Marie
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 18 August 17 13:02 BST (UK)
Its the only Bragg/Hyde marriage I could find that wasn't the couple that stayed in England

I think you need it invest in some certificate to crack this one further

Willow x
Title: Re: JAmes BRAGG born 1803
Post by: warrawillah on Friday 18 August 17 13:57 BST (UK)
Yes Willow. I think you're right. Thank you so much for all of your ideas and input.
PS Wasn't able to attend but should have graduated today with a Diploma in Family History from University of Tasmania. Not bad for a 70 year old in very poor health!
Regards,
Marie
Title: Re: James BRAGG born 1803
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 18 August 17 14:04 BST (UK)
Congratulations! I'm sorry you couldn't make the graduation though

Let us know what you find out from the certificates and we can do a bit more digging for you

Willow x