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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Helen13 on Saturday 05 August 17 14:41 BST (UK)
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Hi
Richard Percy Chandler is born about 1863 according to the censuses ( 1881 - 1911). He gives his birthplace as St Martins. However I can not find his birth registered. :(
I think I have found his death in 1922 in Croydon, London aged 59.
It appears that Richard had many children.
He married twice.
First to Margaret KILEY in 1879 and appears to have 6 children - Edward (1881), Richard (1885), David (1887), Margaret (1889), Mary Ann (1891) and William (1893).
His first wife Margaret died in 1895.
In 1900 he married Phoebe Isabella RICE. From the census it appears that they have the following children:
Bessie Phoebe (1902) who married I think to Frederick G CONNOLLY
Mildred Edna (1904) who married I think to Dudley C CARTER
Percy John (1907) not sure what happened to him
Lucy Phoebe (1910) who married I think to George R W GAMMON
If I am correct I have traced Bessie and Lucy. However I have lost Mildred and Percy.
My other puzzle is that after 1911 there are four more children born in Croydon with RICE as their mothers maiden name as RICE.
The son and one of the daughters appear to die aged 4 and 3.
The other daughters are born in 1916 and 1921.
Is there any way to confirm that they are Richard and Phoebe CHANDLERs children besides getting a certificate?
Phoebe CHANDLER died in 1969.
Thank you for you time and any help would be most appreciated in checking for Richard's birth and his children.
Many thanks
Helen
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Have you got either of his marriages with name of his father or witnesses that could be relations?
If he was born 1863 he was young to have married in 1879.
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Hi
I do not have either of the Marriages. However I have it written down that his first marriage to Margaret KILEY was in St Martins as well.
I think that Richard is born before 1863, however except for one census his birth year is always given as 1863. The other year is 1861.
Thank you for your reply
Helen
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His marriage to Margaret Kiley gives him of full age and Margaret as a minor. Richards father was David and Margaret's Edward. No middle name given for Richard
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Thanks Helen.
It's interesting the middle name Percy doesn't seem to pop up before 1911.
I can't find a birth record for him either I'm afraid. There is a Richard Chandler on census before 1881 but without any other family evidence to check no knowing if that is your man or not :(
If the marriages aren't online then maybe someone could look one up for you to see if there is more information that might help trace him back :)
PS Thanks Rosie!
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Hi Milliepede and Rosie
Thank you for both your replies. I will look at it later as I need to go to bed.
Thank you for looking for his birth and marriage.
As to the last children mentioned, would they be Richards children ?
Thanks Helen
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The 1921 female birth seems to be living with Phoebe in 1939 register Free search ;D
If he died in 1922 then it does look as though they are Richard & Phoebes children
From deceased online
Chandler Richard
burial date 23 February 1922
location Merton
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Possibly Percy J
Deaths Jun 1911
Chandler Percy J age 4
Epsom 2a 16
Epsom RD covers this area which is adjacent to where they were living
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/epsom.html
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At his marriage to Margaret both give their address as 2 Great White Lion Street.
My knowledge of London streets isn't up to much, but in 1871 in Little White Lion Street there is a Richard Chandler aged 10:
Sarah Chandler 33 Head Widow b London, Saleswoman
Richard Chandler 10 Son b Lambeth, Surrey
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Still not finding Richard's birth, but if the father's name of David is correct then there is a burial in 1870 at Victoria Park Cemetery, Hackney of a David Chandler aged 36 of Little Queen St, St Giles. The 1871 census for Sarah & Richard was also St Giles.
The marriage 4 Apr 1861 at St Mary's, Lambeth between David Chandler & Sarah Corne would tie in with the birth place given for Richard on the 1871. :-\
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This baptism is interesting
Richard Robert John Chandler
Baptism 28 Jul 1861 Lambeth St Mary
Father David Chandler, brazier
Mother Sarah Chandler
address James St, St Martin
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Thank you Rosie, Jomot and Mabel for you replies.
Thanks Helen
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Hi
Thank your for the information for the burial from Deceased online in Reply 6. :)
From the index, looks to have Richard Chandler, burial date 23 February 1922 in Merton
as well as the following:
Chandler Percy
Burial date 24 June 1911
Location Merton
Chandler Phyllis
Burial date 14 April 1917
Location Merton
Chandler Thomas
Burial date 05 March 1917
Location Merton
This information I think fits with the information on Percy in reply 7.
The other deaths I think fit with the children that die young in 1917. :-\
Deaths Mar 1917
Chandler Thomas C 4 Croydon 2a 676
Deaths Jun 1917
CHANDLER Phyllis M 3 Croydon 2a 546
If the 1921 female birth in on 1939 register Free search with Phoebe, does that mean that this person has died?
Any further thoughts most welcome.
Helen
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Marriages Sep qtr 1940
Chandler Joan S
Vonderdell Edward F
Surrey Mid.E. 2a 842
Joan Sylvia Vonderdell
Age 86
Death 18 Apr 2007
Godstone, Surrey
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Hi Rosie
Thank you for this information on Joan Chandler.
I am not sure if the other sister born in 1916 is still living and I have no more information except her birth.
After rereading all the replies I wonder if Richard was born prior to his parents marriage and therefore maybe under his mothers maiden name? :-\
No sure if this is just hopeful thinking.
Helen
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I can't see Elsie anywhere.
In 1964 electoral register 24 Lyveden Road - Phoebe I Chandler with Lucy P & George R W Gammon
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Hi Rosie
Thank you for your help. Lucy P and George R W GAMMON are Phoebe's daughter and son in law.
Thank you for giving the electoral roll information. :)
Helen
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I was hoping that perhaps Elsie was there but there is no sign of her with her mother when she would have been old enough to vote :-\
George Gammon appears to have moved in c1934
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Hi Rosie
Thank you for searching for Elsie. Lucy and George marry in 1938.
May be she is with her sister Mildred Edna CHANDLER (1904) who married Dudley C CARTER. I can not find this couple either. :-\
Thanks
Helen
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Probate index for Dudley Chorlton Carter 1960 mentions his wife - abode The Grand Hotel, LLandudno
https://www.britanniahotels.com/hotels/the-grand-hotel-llandudno
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
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Hi Rosie
Thank you for this information on Dudley Chorlton CARTER. Will Review it in the morning. :) :)
Thanks
Helen
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Several 1951 newspapers have a report re Dudley Chorlton Carter - he was working at the North Stafford Hotel, Stoke on Trent. They were fined for having dirty rooms and unfit food.
Possible death for Mildred
Deaths Mar 1968
CARTER MILDRED E age 63
WEOBLEY 9A 111
Probate index
Mildred Edna Carter of 138 Croydon Road, Caterham, Surrey died 23 February 1968 - Administration London 28th July £2895
It looks as though that was her death and she was away from home at the time
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Hi
Thank you Rosie belatedly for your replies.
I am wondering if Richard's birth was registered under his mothers name of CORNE. I realize that this is a long shot and wishful thinking.
There is a Robert CORNE birth registered in 1859 Sept Quarter St Martin in the fields with no maiden name given. Could this child be Sarah's son and fit with the replies 8, 9 and 10 ?
Any thoughts
Helen
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Hi
Thank you Rosie belatedly for your replies.
I am wondering if Richard's birth was registered under his mothers name of CORNE. I realize that this is a long shot and wishful thinking.
There is a Robert CORNE birth registered in 1859 Sept Quarter St Martin in the fields with no maiden name given. Could this child be Sarah's son and fit with the replies 8, 9 and 10 ?
Any thoughts
Helen
Robert Corne looks likely to be the Robert Fuller Corn born 8 July 1859 and baptised 8 July 1860 at St Martin in the Fields, son of a Mary Ann (Marg A Corne as she is in 1861, with 1 yr old Robert among her children, living in St Martin in the Fields district).
It is a pity the newlywed Chandlers seem rather elusive in the 1861 census - it would be very helpful to see Richard's age and surname as stated then.
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Hi
Thank you for your thoughts and for looking up this Robert CORNE so I can eliminate him as being my elusive Richard CHANDLER. :)
Helen