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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: MarMnkly on Saturday 05 August 17 12:27 BST (UK)

Title: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: MarMnkly on Saturday 05 August 17 12:27 BST (UK)
Hello  :)
I have a marriage entry for an ancestor who later is known as John Stonebrook born Germany, and who is listed by the minister as Johan Stohnbrock at his marriage in 1834.
Please can I have help deciphering his signature - on the attached image, as I cannot find the surname Stohnbrock anywhere in Ancestry of Familysearch?
Many thanks
Mar
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: eileenmcnaught on Saturday 05 August 17 13:46 BST (UK)
Hello Mar,

I had a look at Johan´s signature and it looks as though the name may be Stosnbruck.   I live in Germany and my german husband thinks too that it could be right.  The ´h´looks like an old german ´s´and the o in the latter part is a u.
Hope this has helped you.

Best wishes,   Eileen
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: MarMnkly on Saturday 05 August 17 14:26 BST (UK)
Thanks Eileen for your advice,
this one is a bit of a mystery as no names come up either with the spelling Stosnbruck
I'm not sure what to make of his name as the 'h' in the middle of Johan (which looks like an s) looks the same as the letter in the middle of his surname?
The thought crosses my mind that maybe he made up his surname, or spelled it phonetically in German???
Margaret
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: Peonie on Sunday 06 August 17 11:14 BST (UK)
Hello Mar,

looks more like a translation from the German name Steinbrück,Steinbrueck, Steinbruck or Steinbrock.


Hope this helps, regards Peonie
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: JustinL on Monday 07 August 17 09:27 BST (UK)
The surname is written Stohnbruck. A name which does not appear in any online records that I can find.

As Peonie suggests, has he written the English word 'stone' as a German who didn't speak English might write it, i.e. 'Stohn'.

I'd say that his real name was Steinbrück or Steinbruck, the former being widespread in Germany today.

Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 08 August 17 07:45 BST (UK)
is this him to Mary Attwood at St Leonards church,Shoreditch,London
http://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=stohnbrock&prenom=&prenom_operateur=or&with_variantes_nom=&with_variantes_nom_conjoint=&with_variantes_prenom=&with_variantes_prenom_conjoint=&size=10

was he 42 when he married Mary - if so - was he married before ?
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: MarMnkly on Tuesday 08 August 17 14:29 BST (UK)
Hello again and thank you for all your replies. it would seem likely that his spelling is an attempt to phonetically spell Stonebrook in German (Stohnbrock), and that his real surname is still not clear, but probably one of those suggested.
Garstonite - yes this is his marriage at aged 42 and he says he is a widow when he marries Mary Attwood on 10 October 1834.
One thing this has just brought to light though, is that there is another marriage listed in quarter 4 of 1849 for Johan Stohnbrock (Bethnal Green); on the same page is also Mary Attwood, so I'm not sure what's going on here?
I need to post a request to see if someone has the actual image of this marriage
Mar


Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: sugarbakers on Tuesday 08 August 17 14:46 BST (UK)
There's a marriage 7 Nov 1814 at St Dunstan & All Saints Stepney for John Stonebrook of MEOT batchelor and Ann Austin of same.
There's a definite similarity between the 'Johan St....' in the signature of John Stonebrook and that on the 1834 marriage entry.

Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: MarMnkly on Tuesday 08 August 17 15:25 BST (UK)
I can see what you mean sugarbakers
I will look for a death of Ann Stonebrook
Mar :)
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: sugarbakers on Tuesday 08 August 17 15:39 BST (UK)
... and marriage of Johan Stohnbrock 57 wid baker 11 Hope Place to Mary Attwood 35 sp at St Philp Bethnal Green 4 Dec 1849.
Johan's father, (no forename) a stocking weaver, Mary's, James, a shoemaker.
But this time Johan signs with his mark !

Mar ... I've sent pm.
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: MarMnkly on Tuesday 08 August 17 15:49 BST (UK)
Thanks sugarbakers
How odd, as it seems he has married Mary Attwood twice (1834 and 1849) !!
Maybe he wasn't a widow the first time round (1834) and Ann (nee Austin) was still alive.
Re the 1814 marriage, I've put the two signatures side by side - the curl above the 'n' of John/Johan in the lower signature is from the line above on the original image.
Mar
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: MarMnkly on Tuesday 08 August 17 16:23 BST (UK)
Baptism at Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints on 31 December 1815
Mary Ann Stonebrook (born October 1815), to parents John (baker) and Ann of Mile End Old town
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: sugarbakers on Tuesday 08 August 17 16:24 BST (UK)
That looks right ...


and there's a death registration for an Ann Stonebrook age 46 Apr 1842 St Geo East ... I wonder.
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: Peonie on Wednesday 09 August 17 10:30 BST (UK)
I don't think the two signatures are from the same person. The J and h in Johann are quite different, also there is no h in "Stohn".  Familysearch   has a Johann Kraft Steinbruch, born on Feb 29, 1792.

Regards Peonie
Title: Re: Johan born Germany c 1792
Post by: sugarbakers on Wednesday 09 August 17 11:33 BST (UK)
Familysearch has a Johann Kraft Steinbruch, born on Feb 29, 1792.

 :)

*

1814               (marriage)
1815   baker   (bpt of dau)
1834   baker   (marriage)
1835   baker   (bpt of son)
1838   baker   (bpt of son)
1841   baker   (census)
1849   baker   (marriage)
1851   sugarhouse lab (census)
1861   dock lab   (census)
1862   died aged 70