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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: lollipoplady on Saturday 29 July 17 20:18 BST (UK)
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I have the birth certificate of William Charles Knobbs born March 1850 in Watlington Oxfordshire. Parents William Knobbs and Mary Banling . I cannot find their marriage nor can I find her.Any one have better luck than me. William Knobbs snr born 1821 oxford......
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They may have lived together and not married. She may have just taken on his surname for this reason.
Regards panda
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Hi, welcome to RootsChat! :)
Although I can't find a marrriage, the name BANLING doesn't seem to exist (anywhere), but BANTING does exist, including in Oxfordshire.
http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=BANTING&year=1881&altyear=1998&country=GB&type=name
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Hello and welcome.
Do you have him in censuses? I can see him as a visitor in 1851 and William Knobbs snr (I presume) living alone. Is that him - a shoemaker?
There is a death in 1852 which is perhaps William snr.
I haven't given references as I assume you may have them but if not I can post them.
Heywood
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GRO Index has the mother's maiden name as Banking?
KNOBBS, WILLIAM CHARLES BANKING
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in HENLEY IN THE COUNTIES OF OXFORD BERKS AND BUCKING Volume 16 Page 94
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There are several Mary BANTINGS in Oxon in the 1841 census.
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GRO Index has the mother's maiden name as Banking?
KNOBBS, WILLIAM CHARLES BANKING
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in HENLEY IN THE COUNTIES OF OXFORD BERKS AND BUCKING Volume 16 Page 94
No joy with finding a marriage.
I tried Knobbs/Nobbs, Banling/Banting/Bantling with variants, but couldn't get a match.
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In 1851 1725/551/24
William Knobs, 1 yr is a visitor with Richard and Racel Shaw.
In 1861 884/33/35
William Smith 11 yrs is an orphan with the family.
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William Smith 11 yrs is an orphan with the family.
I don't know of the relevance of the SMITH connection, but ...
there was an 1843 marriage of Mary BANTING ... a possible marriage partner was a William SMITH.
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Death of Mary Knobbs 31 yrs in December quarter 1850.
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Was William a shoemaker? If so he is on his own in the 1851 census living at Couching Street, Watlington, Henley, Oxfordshire
Marital status is blank.
He is a master shoemaker employing six men and two women.
If the death of Mary Knobbs that Heywood has found is William's wife, then William should have had widower as his marital status on the census record.
There is no-one else listed with him at all, so presumably his son is with the Richard & Rachel Shaw that Heywood also found.
This is the death that Heywood found from the GRO website:-
KNOBBS, WILLIAM Age 31
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in HENLEY IN THE COUNTIES OF OXFORD BERKS AND BUCKING Volume 03A Page 307
That gives him a birth year of 1821.
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Thanks Girlguide ,This is my problem. go one census on to 1861 and his name has changed to William Smith ( who's birth is actually what I'm after ).There is a christening for William Charles Smith 30 June 1850 in watlington .In 1861 he is an Orphan.... There is a birth for William Charles Knobbs and absolutly nothing else for him, so are they one and the same ?
On William Charles Smith 's Marriage Certificate his father is William a Shoemaker.
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It looks to be the same person.
Who are the parents in the christening record?
You could try the death certificates for William and Mary.
I have them now - Mary and William - shoemaker.
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The burials of William and Mary are under the name of Smith.
It could be that William Knobbs was known as Smith as an alias.
There is a snippet of news from the August 1843 Oxford Journal where there is mention of a William Knobbs.
You would need a subscription to a site which has newspaper access.
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The 9th October 1843 marriage of William Smith and Mary Banting in Oxford shows his occupation as Cordwainer - which is a shoemaker :)
His father is Richard Smith, a Tailor.
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That looks really interesting but I'm lost .If they are the parents of William Smith why bother with the Knobbs thing.....
There's a female Knobbs Death 1844....There's a Mary Elizabeth Knobbs Born 1848 and there's a death for a Mary Knobbs 1850 and William Knobbs 1852 all registered in Henley.....And then the Knobbs disappear .......
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I can't see the 1844 death but Mary Elizabeth Knobbs mmn is Ben.. According to GRO.
Mary Elisabeth Smith was baptised 2nd April 1848 at St Peter le Bailey. parents are William and Mary - Cordwainer abode St Ebbes Street.
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The newspaper reference is quite literally a little snippet. It says:-
Watlington Aug 10 - William Knobbs was fined 10s and costs, for assaulting Louis Loden, which he immediately paid.
That is all it is.
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Burial of Mary Elizabeth Smith 15 months old 25th April 1849 abode St Ebbes Street
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The newspaper reference is quite literally a little snippet. It says:-
Watlington Aug 10 - William Knobbs was fined 10s and costs, for assaulting Louis Loden, which he immediately paid.
That is all it is.
Yes, it looked similar - not enough to make you change your name :-\
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Found the snippet thanks.
Do you think its just a coincidence then and William Charles Knobbs and William Charles Smith are not one and the same.......If so where's the birth for William Smith
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I think it highly likely that they are the same person and so is William Smith/Knobbs.
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I agree with Heywood. There are no births registered for a William Charles Smith between 1849 and 1851 for the registration district of Henley.
Why his name was changed from Knobbs to Smith is probably something you will never find out.
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Maybe to cover illigitamacy seeing as the birth of William Knobbs was registered by Mary Knobbs nee Banting the only fib would be that she wasn't Mary Knobbs but Mary Smith.
Which would be more frightening the fib to the church or to the registra or to your husband.
Thanks everyone
Will purchase the marriage certificate.....watch this space
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The church certificate is online if you mean William and Mary's.
William himself is referred to by both surnames so I am not sure it is just a coverup for illegitimacy but i can't understand it. :-\
There is another 1843 marriage Of Mary Ann Smith to James Lewis. Her father was also Richard Smith, a tailor.
I can't find this couple in later censuses to check her birthplace. :-\
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There is another 1843 marriage Of Mary Ann Smith to James Lewis. Her father was also Richard Smith, a tailor.
I can't find this couple in later censuses to check her birthplace. :-\
There's a widowed Mary Ann LEWIS (23) in Oxford (born Oxford, St Thomas) in 1851. She could (just about) have been aged 16 at marriage.
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Thanks Geoff. I had looked at her and thought she was unmarried ::)
That looks like her though.