RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: rea1 on Friday 28 July 17 10:27 BST (UK)
-
I am researching my late husbands great grandad. He was Angelantonio Fascione, B 1870 in Italy, went to America 1891. Left America between 1891-1894 for England and ended up in Leeds where he married Rose Hearn in 1912. I can trace him living in Leeds but prior too that I don't have the recourses, can anyone help please.
Liz
-
So are you looking for him from 1894 to 1912 or before he emigrated ?
-
Thanks for your reply jim1. I am looking for when he arrived in England and before he arrived here.
☺
-
1901 Census he is in Leeds with quite a household full.
At 11 Orange St.
Written ‘Angelo Fasicone'. Aged 31, Italian subject. Ice Cream Vendor.
Married . wife Rosie. Aged 23, Born Leicestershire. Organ Grinder.
Joan aged 6 born York.
Elizabeth aged 4 born York.
Sabbet (difficult to make out) aged 3 born Scotland.
Mary aged 1 born Leeds.
Rosie 10 weeks born Leeds.
Also James Longtoft (Again, difficult to make out), servant aged 40. Organ Grinder.
Joseph Murray lodger aged 26. Tramp. Feeble minded.
He and Rosie are also in the 1911 Census in Leeds. We are not allowed to do look ups for the 1911 Census if I remember rightly. (Someone will correct me if I’m wrong!).
It would be very much worth your while to look at it. If you don’t have a subscription to Ancestry or findmypast, many libraries have free access to those sites.
-
Thanks also Goldie61 for your reply. I do have Ancestry membership and I've seen the censuses but I don't have the worldwide and cannot check the immigration details for when he arrived in England.
☺
-
Name Angelo Fascione
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 16 Apr 1891
Event Place New York, New York, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 21
Birthplace Italy
Occupation Farmer
Ship Name Giava
Birth Year (Estimated) 1870
Departure Port Naples & Palermo
ship Name Giava
Literacy Unknown
Residence Place Marzano-Appio
Destination Place PROVIDENCE
Transit or Travel Compartment Staying in the USA [Transit]; Steerage [Travel]
Affiliate Manifest ID 00000045
Affiliate ARC Identifier 1746097
..........and the image of the record https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-5P5B-Z?i=256&cc=1849782
-
Thank you iluleah, that's a big help.
☺
-
Left America between 1891-1894 for England
Just wondered where you got these dates from? Have you found him in England in 1894?
Josey
ADDED: Ah, silly me - son Juan's birth presumably!! :-[ :-[
-
"Sabbet (difficult to make out) aged 3 born Scotland".
That is the birth certificate I would look for. Very informative if found.
-
Good thinking barryd.
Juan is actually
FASCIONE, GIOVANNI ANTONIO MMN HERN
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in YORK Volume 09D Page 40
Free index on ScotlandsPeople shows
FASCIONE
QUENGETTA
F
1897
426/ 350
Dysart
Don't have enough credits to look, but well worth buying some, Liz.
-
forget that - just seen it had already been posted
-
Than you Lizzie and Josie for your help, much appreciated.
☺
-
Not of any help,but the chap who arrived in NY in 1891 is a different person than "yours".
That one ended up in Lawrence,Mass. and was still living there in the 1930s.
Maureen
-
Oh good find Maureen, certainly a help. So we don't know when Angelo[antonio] came to England then....
ADDED: Do you have the marriage certificate for Angelo's father's name?
Marriages Jun 1912
Fascione Angelo Hern Leeds 9b 902
Hern Rose F Fascione Leeds 9b 902
Wonder why they didn't marry till 1912?
-
Perhaps he was already married and only free to marry Rosie in 1912
-
And maybe in Italy & came to England to run away? Can't find an 1885 - 1895 England/Wales marriage.
-
Not sure about this one:
1891 Ancestry:
Angelo Yasciono
3893/22/37
......
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7PPK-N3Z
Maureen
-
Thanks Maureen.
I've not got a marriage certificate for his fathers name Josey, and doing the maths he would have been 42 when him and Rose married in 1912 and she would have been 44. They are on the 1911 census with children, the oldest I can find is Giovanni born 1896. When I have looked at hints etc on ancestry a Emily Evangalista as cropped up in Massachusetts USA, wonder if he married her when went to America in 1891 and left her there coming to England at some point up to 1894....hence him and Rose marrying in their 40s. I think I need to send for their marriage certificate.
☺
-
Yes Maureen - could be. It actually says Fasciono [the 'Y's in 'Yorkshire' on same page are different]; there is also a younger Fasciono - Cristiano aged 18. And musician could tie in with Rosie' occupation as organ grinder...Also the family are actually Martino. Note Joseph & Dominica have sons called Angelo & Antony....maybe family names - maybe Dominica is an aunt? They must have moved to England between births of 17 & 12 year old sons.
Liz - the Emily hint may refer to the other Angelo found by Maureen. beware ancestry hints ;). Rose on censuses is 8 years younger than Angelo - this may be her wishful thinking...
ADDED: But only if Dominica is a maternal aunt....getting beyond myself here ;D
MARTINO, ANTONIO MMN QUAGLERA
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 547
-
As Cristiano is female should read Christiana. Wife possibly or sister ?
-
I have downloaded the BC for Quengetta Fascione
Interestingly they state married 9th Apr 1894 Leeds
Annie
-
Ah, hadn't noticed that, jim ::); could be either...
-
Interestingly they state married 9th Apr 1894 Leeds
Good lass Annie - possibly a porkie then....
-
Yes Josey would appear so (new to the thread) but also 'Rose' is Rose Frances Hern'
Will post soon (it's not a great copy)
Annie
-
Apologies Josey,
Had to change your name on last post, typed Rosie in error (having 'Rose' in my head) ::)
Here's a snippet which I've enhanced a wee bit.
Annie
-
Will post soon (it's not a great copy)
Better than many ;).
Looks like they could pull the wool over eyes as far as marriage date was concerned as they were nowhere near Leeds. Convenient date of marriage for Giovanni's birth ;D
-
I've had a look at Castle Garden website and the only one close is the wrong Angelo found earlier. Is there any other evidence that he was actually in USA for those four years or so?
-
I all thanks for help/replies ☺ I put Rose Fascione nee Hearn as 44 when she married in 1912 she was in fact 33.
Re him going to New York from Italy it was told by his grandson whom was told by his late dad Angelantonio's son, but can't remember much more and I also found facts to match on Ancestry if correct. 😕
-
Yes Maureen - could be. It actually says Fasciono [the 'Y's in 'Yorkshire' on same page are different]; there is also a younger Fasciono - Cristiano aged 18. And musician could tie in with Rosie' occupation as organ grinder...Also the family are actually Martino. Note Joseph & Dominica have sons called Angelo & Antony....maybe family names - maybe Dominica is an aunt? They must have moved to England between births of 17 & 12 year old sons.
Liz - the Emily hint may refer to the other Angelo found by Maureen. beware ancestry hints ;). Rose on censuses is 8 years younger than Angelo - this may be her wishful thinking...
ADDED: But only if Dominica is a maternal aunt....getting beyond myself here ;D
MARTINO, ANTONIO MMN QUAGLERA
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 547
Youngest Martino child seems to have different mother
MARTINO, VINCENZO MMN ANNONIA
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 429
Difference in age between children would fit with a second marriage for Joseph Martino
-
Marriages Q1 Mar 1887 Leeds 9b 610
ANNONI Maria Dominica
ENGLAND Cicely Maud
MALLINSON Bethel
MARTINO Carminucci
looks like 2nd marriage but doesn't link the lodgers though
-
Rosie would have been 17 in 1894, so would need parental consent. In 1891 she is with widoed father and siblings in Leeds. A couple of Italian families are neighbours
-
Marriages Q1 Mar 1887 Leeds 9b 610
ANNONI Maria Dominica
ENGLAND Cicely Maud
MALLINSON Bethel
MARTINO Carminucci
looks like 2nd marriage but doesn't link the lodgers though
Unless this marriage is the son listed as Carmino on census and Maria Dominica is the Mary listed as daughter age 21 (actually dil) and Vincent is Joseph's grandson not son.
My head hurts!
-
Thanks Lizziel for your reply. Rose/Rosie and Angelantonio had a son Juan born in 1895, so she was probably expecting hence marrying at 17.
-
Rose/Rosie and Angelantonio had a son Juan born in 1895, so she was probably expecting hence marrying at 17.
Which they didn't.....
From Josey Reply #13...
"Marriages Jun 1912
Fascione Angelo Hern Leeds 9b 902
Hern Rose F Fascione Leeds 9b 902
Wonder why they didn't marry till 1912?"
Annie
-
I know Annie it's got me puzzled, not sure if they married in 1894 or 1912.
😕
-
I know Annie it's got me puzzled, not sure if they married in 1894 or 1912.
The reference Josey provided is the actual marriage which can be found on GRO site although this needs to be ordered as it is not available online.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
Certificates cost £9.25 including postage.
Annie
-
Thanks Annie, I think I need to send for a certificate to get to the bottom of it.
Liz ☺
-
Hey everyone,
I might be a bit late to this chat, but I'm researching the biological parents of my great-grandmother. They were Italian and I'm told through family hearsay that the mother was called Cristina. I'm interested to know more about this Cristina Fascione, living in York with the Martino family in 1891. My great-grandmother's birth was registered in Whitby in 1891, however being adopted that date and place of birth could be different.
My question is that on later documents for this family Cristina disapears, but there is a Medestina (likely Modestina) two years younger who marries one of the Martino boys. Not sure if it's the same person - could be, if not, what happened to Cristina? Could she be my great-grandmother's mother? i.e got pregnant and got sent away to have the baby in secret, died in child birth and the baby was kept by a benevolent host family - that's my hypothesis.
I've managed through DNA matches to narrow down the father to a Luigi Di Placido who would have been the same age and from the same village in Italy, though on the 1891 census he is recorded in Edinburgh with his parents, however I've been told by some of his parents' living descendents that he went down to Newcastle then further south, after that there's no trace of him either.
If anyone can shed some light on this it would be a great help.
James