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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: davidgoldburn on Wednesday 26 July 17 18:03 BST (UK)
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I'm assuming post war? Going to also post on picture forum to see if peeps have any idea of year!
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Hi, the collar badge could be The Royal Army Service Corps.
Frank.
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Hi, just to add, the collar badge has the Queens crown so it would be post 1952.
Frank.
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The light colour and the one visible stripe might suggest the Korean War Medal?
maxD
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Ooh Thank you all!
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The light colour and the one visible stripe might suggest the Korean War Medal?
maxD
That is very probable. The British medal was circular, silver in colour, with a ribbon of 5 alternating yellow and blue vertical stripes. Your man seems to be wearing two medals - the other would be the UN Korea service medal (circular, golden, lots of thin blue and white vertical stripes).
If so, that would put the date at 1954 or later.
Philip
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Good evening,
The date of the wedding could have some bearing on the regt.
If pre 1958 it could be the Devonshires, if pre 1959 then could also be Royal West Surreys.
If the medals are for Korea then the first 2 were not present so count them out. RASC were present in Korea.
If wedding is post 1965 then the RCT is also a contender.
John915
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I was going to suggest 50s for the wedding, but I see you need it narrowed down even further. :-\
I don't suppose you know the names of the happy couple?
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The gentleman is Patrick Williams, all I don't know the name of his wife. It could be Jo.
Cheers
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The Korea medal was the only medal with that sort of ribbon colour/pattern awarded in the post WW2 era and, as Philip points out, the other medal would be the UN Medal awarded automatically to holders of the former. Delete my "might suggest" in my earlier post, insert "is most likely".
Date and place of the marriage would help even further. Many similarities to my own mid 1960s wedding!
maxD
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Free BMD brings up two Patrick Williams's married to Jo's in the early '60s, none in the mid/late '50s.
One, Patrick J. Williams, married Joyce Holland in Bolton, 1st qtr 1961.
The other, also Patrick J, married Joan Green in Swindon, 3rd qtr '63
If these look likely you may be able to further information from local newspapers of the time.
Although the collar dogs do look a bit like the Devons' star and crown the centre of the badge seems to be of a dark colour, possibly even enamelled. From memory I don't recall the castle in the Devon's dress badge ever being anything other than silver.
Looking at a blowup of your photo I wonder if the central device is a rose ? I can't find a badge like this but wonder if it is one of the Lancashire Regiments ?
Maec
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Good afternoon,
If either of those is who we are looking for then it can't be the Devons anyway. They became Devon and Dorsets in 1958 with a new cap badge. Likewise, West Surrey's became first battalion Queens regt with new cap badge in 59.
No access to cap badges at this moment but I don't recall any Lancashire regts with 8 pointed star with crown.
John915
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I would ask the OP - if we were able to confirm his regiment (and for the record I go with Frank from the start - RASC) would that confirm/not confirm, something you know/suspect already?
The date and the name of the lady are unknown, so if we were to reach consensus on the regiment, would that solve a puzzle?
maxD
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Good evening,
I'm inclined to agree maxD, having I think exhausted the other possible lines with similar cap badges.
John915
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The RASC is certainly a potential. We-You guys here- have determined his brother John Williams was also RASC. The family really does talk about Pat...ive yet to realise why...
My aunt has suggested that Pat had a wife called "Jo" so Joyce would be close? Will keep badgering the family for more knowledge :)
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Is Patrick still alive? If not, his wife may have registered the death, or she may be mentioned in a will - at least giving her forename.
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If the family are able to tie down the marriage date/place the £9.25 will get them a certificate which should have his regiment and maybe even his number (mine does!).
(The dark colour in the middle of the badge is the collar material showing through the EIIR in the centre).
maxD
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has suggested that Pat had a wife called "Jo" so Joyce would be close?
I think the 'Joan' may be more likely for a 'Jo' abbreviation; Joyce is more usually shortened to 'Joy'.
ADDED: I see from restoration thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=775801.msg6296623
that Patrick was born 1932.
For what it's worth ::) an ancestry tree
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/3165008/person/-1766491148/facts
has a Patrick Joseph M William born 4 Jul 1932 Penzance, died August 1998 Warwickshire.
However Max's suggestion of tying down the marriage date/location & obtaining the marriage certificate should answer all the questions!!
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However Max's suggestion of tying down the marriage date/location & obtaining the marriage certificate should answer all the questions!!
I agree with that, it seems the reasonable way to go.
Frank.
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It couldn't be Pat for Patricia and Joe for Joseph could it? ;) :)
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It couldn't be Pat for Patricia and Joe for Joseph could it? ;) :)
I also wonder if Jo could be for Josey, I knew a woman once named Josey and people called her Jo for short :-\
Frank.
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It was definitely Patrick!
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Does the family know of any offspring from the marriage? The Williams/Holland pairing in Bolton seems to have produced three in the 10 years since 1961, the Williams/Green pair none in the same reg district since 1963.
Pretty rough and ready approach but another way to find the needle in the haystack?
maxD
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Will ask the relatives and find out!
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Hi All,
The family (no I don't belong to the mafia) have got back to me. Patrick's youngest sister is sure that Patrick married a Elaine- No idea where the Jo came from. There were three children. I have gone through BMD, cant find a marriage with three children...
Anyway, will keep hunting!
Cheers
David