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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: chloerog on Monday 24 July 17 15:04 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for info on the children Frederick age 19 and lily age 17. I've tried looking on the gro index for there births but have come up with nothing. I know both Head and wife Fred and Emma were married before they married each other. So these two children could be from Fred previous marriage but even then I can't seem to find the same mothers maiden name on GRO. Could it be that Frederick maybe married Lily and they were living at home still?? This is the only possible thing I could think of.
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Which census is this?
Do you have Frederick and Lily in the previous census?
When did Fred and Emma marry?
Who were Fred and Emma previously married to and when did their spouses die?
What is Emma's maiden name and previous married name?
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Looking at the GRO index there is a Frederick McPherson born 1882 registration district St Olave with a mothers maiden name of Barnes.
The census you have posted is 1901 and I agree with the previous post it is always a good idea to post all the information you have to help those who are prepared to search on your behalf.
Regards panda
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It is the 1901 census
Son who died from previous post gives mmn Knox
MCPHERSON, ROBERT WILLIAM mmn KNOX
1898 March Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 447
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Census is 1901.
10 November 1889 - St Thomas, Bethnal Green
Frederick Macpherson, 28, widower, Labourer. Father: Charles, Fish Smoker
Emma Mills, 21, widow, Chairwoman. Father: Thomas Knox, Bricklayer.
Witnesses: Frederick and Matilda Mills.
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MCPHERSON, EDWIN KNOX 1895 Sept Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 408
MCPHERSON, WILLIAM KNOX 1893 June Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 442
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The 1911 census shows that Frederick & Emma were married in 1889 so Emma was not the mother of Frederick and Lilly. Frederick was born 1882 and mothers name was Barnes.
MCPHERSON, FREDERICK BARNES
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 260
The only other child with a mother Barnes that I can find is Evelina:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
MCPHERSON, EVELINA BARNES
GRO Reference: 1886 D Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1006
Evelina could well be given as Lilly.
Marriage of Fred & Emma:
Name: Frederick Macpherson
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Age: 28
Spouse: Emma Mills
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Nov 1889
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Charles Macpherson
Spouse Father: Thomas Knox
Register Type: Parish Register
Not found the Barnes/McPherson marriage as yet.
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I'd be a little cautious about the Southwark birth for Frederick - doesn't match his reported Mile End birthplace (per both 1891 and 1901) and there is another London-born Frederick McPherson of the same age to be found in the 1901 census.
Frederick (senior)'s first marriage, aged 20, may have been to Agnes Pegram, 18, on 6 Aug 1876 at St Paul, Bow Common. His father: Charles McPherson, labourer.
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The 1891 census has Fred & Emma living with Freds parents and 2 children Frederick and Jessy. The original does look like Jessy but could also possibly be Lilly:
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Mc Pherson 66
Prudence Mc Pherson 63
John Mc Pherson 30
Frederick Mc Pherson 36
Emma Mc Pherson 32
Frederick Mc Pherson 8
Jessy Mc Pherson 3
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I don't think the Barnes connection is correct. I have found a Eveline McPherson on the 1901 census with mother Elizabeth. Checked some of the other children and the mother is a Barnes:
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth McPherson 53 widow
John D McPherson 25
Ernest A McPherson 24
Bessie McPherson 23
Charles McPherson 21
Isabel McPherson 16
Eveline McPherson 14
George McPherson 11
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The 1891 census has Fred & Emma living with Freds parents and 2 children Frederick and Jessy. The original does look like Jessy but could also possibly be Lilly:
"Jessy" is enumerated as a 3 yr old girl (born Stepney) but I think that the child was in fact a son of Emma's first marriage.
Marriage of Emma Knox to Jesse Mills: Dec qtr 1887 Bethnal Green.
Birth reg of Jesse William Mills, mmn Knox: Sep qtr 1888 Mile End Old Town.
Emma's husband's possible death: Jesse Mills aged 21, Sep qtr 1888 Mile End**
**Added: The deaths register of the Mile End Old Town Infirmary shows that Jesse died on 14 June 1888 aged 21 - cause of death Morbus Cordis.
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School records for "Jess. Wm." Mills show that he was admitted to Dr Barnardo's School, Tower Hamlets on 22 June 1896. His birthdate was given as 2.8.88 - so a few weeks after his father's death. Parents named as Jess. & Emma. Abode: 26 Elsa St. Previous school: Ben Jonson. He finally left the school on 13 July 1900.
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Post deleted
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Numbers of children mentioned on 1911 are supposed to relate to the current marriage so should not show any from previous marriages. People do get confused though ;D
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I think you are correct Rosie - not checked all but think I have found at least 3 deaths for children with Emma.
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As well as the three children I have already mentioned other possible McPherson/Knox children were
William 1892 (Poplar) - died same qtr
Sarah 1902 (West Ham)
Mary Ann Lily Helena 1904 (Mile End)
Henry Albert 1906 (West Ham)
Thomas 1909 (West Ham)
still looking in case there are more
I deleted Mary Bernie as it was totally wrong ::)
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Sorry just got home from work, to see all your replies.
Emma knox was married to a Jesse mills before she married Fredrick, they had a child Jesse William Mills.
She then married Frederick on 10 Nov 1889. I'm unsure as to who Fred married before emma. I personally thought it was Agnes Pegram. But my mums cousin seems to have a Sophia Emma which I'm not sure that is right or where she got this info.
The children I have found belonging to Fred and Emma are....
William McPherson 1893-?
Edwin McPherson 1895-1949
Robert William McPherson 1897-1898
Emma McPherson 1900-?
Sarah McPherson 1902-?
Mary Ann Lilian Helena McPherson 1904-1983
Henry Albert McPherson 1906-1909
Thomas McPherson 1909-1979
Theresa McPherson 1912-?
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There were 2 Williams one in 1892 died same qtr other was born 1893
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Oh I didn't know that there were two Williams seems to have been a popular name in my family.
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Going back to the original question: I found a school record for a Lily which may or may not be relevant:
Lily McPherson born 7.6.1885* was admitted to school** 7.6.1898. Previous school: Dr Barnardo's.
Father: Fredk., of 12 Spital Square.
* I suggest you take the "precise" birthdate with a pinch of salt. A surprising number of children in the register appear to have had a birthday on the day of their admission. It may be that the school was told the child was (say) 13, without more, so they entered them in the register as though they were exactly 13 that day.
**Unfortunately the name of the admitting school isn't included in the details.
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But my mums cousin seems to have a Sophia Emma which I'm not sure that is right or where she got this info.
Sophia Emma McPherson is included in a poorly-sourced online family tree which I have had a look at. Somebody has looked at the 1901 census for your Frederick and Emma (nee Knox) and thought that Emma was born Sophia Emma McPherson.
There was a Sophia Emma McPherson baptised in Stepney in 1868 (father John, a mariner). She remained unmarried through the censuses and indeed through the 1930s electoral rolls. I can't see any basis upon which to connect her with this family.
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Thank you that sums up why I couldn't connect Sophia Emma, to the family tree. I can cross her out then. 😃
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Not by anychance related to William McPherson and Elizabeth McPherson (born Osbourne)
With Children:
William Paris McPherson (My Great-Grandfather) 1921-1969
Donald McPherson
Thomas McPherson
Letitia McPherson
Lilian McPherson
???