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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: happyranter on Saturday 15 July 17 21:32 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm researching my family tree and have traced back quite a way on my grandfather's side in Cork but am getting really stuck with my grandmother who I never knew.
What I know is that she was born in Ireland, possibly Wexford, as my father used to talk about going to see his family in Wexford. Her father was John Doyle on her marriage certificate and he is down as working . She married John Collins b. 1890 in Swansea, Wales in 1920 in Swansea.. My father is Thomas Raymond Collins b 1931 in Swansea.
On her marriage certificate she is known as Lily Doyle and in electoral rolls know as Lilian Collins or Lily Collins, then on the Register of 1939 she is known as Anastasia L Doyle and her death certificate is in the name Anastasia Collins. All these names are definitely her as I can tell from the names of her children (my uncles). Her death certificate and the 1939 register have her year of birth as 1893/4 and her marriage certificate has her age as 20 in 1920. There are
All the relatives I could ask about her have passed and not sure where to go next. Any one have any ideas?
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Welcome to RootsChat
Does her marriage say what her father worked at?
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Hi thanks for replying yes, says he was a railwayman
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That may help, I had a look in the Wexford Reg districts and there are several Anastasia's with father John in the time period.
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where are you looking? I looked at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ but the only two I could find with father John were both agricultural labourers. Guess he could have changed jobs! There are several Anastasia Doyles in Wexford for the same year...I think she was born in November according to the 1939 census. How will I know which is the right one or is it just guess work. Would I have more luck if I went to Wexford and looked at the records there do you think?
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There are a couple of John Doyle working for the railway in Wexford in 1901, one has a daughter Mary Anastasia,
Just a possible for now
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Clonroche/Rathturtin/1786438/
Mary A isn't at home in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Clonroche/Rathturtin/677100/
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Looking at birth Certs here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
And finding all the reg districts here
http://www.swilson.info/regdistmap.php
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thank you for the links..i shall get searching! I saw that one with the Mary Anastasia but wasn't sure as the Lily bit has thrown me ..it seems to be definitely part of her name. .. My fathers family had a thing about calling themselves by their middle names which makes it a bit more difficult
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Another family name would help a lot, a brother or sister maybe, have you checked through any old family papers that may have survived, a memory card or a newspaper cutting, anything that could give a name or area.
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Unfortunately I never knew my grandparents. My father led a difficult life and he died nearly 25 years ago. I knew his brothers and sisters as a child but not that well and they are all dead. The only other name I can find is that she was registered at the same house in Swansea with a Daniel Doyle the year before she got married...1919. I cant see that he was born in Swansea and havent found him linked to john doyle or Anastasia doyle. No idea what relation he is to her. I have found an Anastasia Doyle with a John Doyle engine driver as a father on the link you sent born in May 1893 rather than November 1893.
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If you believe her marriage cert, then she was Elizabeth Doyle, born ca. 1900, father John Doyle, working on the railways.
There is an exact match for her in the family of John Doyle, of Enniscorthy, a railway guard.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Enniscorthy_Urban/Templeshannon/1787975/ (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Enniscorthy_Urban/Templeshannon/1787975/)
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Yes I think it is either Mary Anastasia or the one born in 1893 whose father John Doyle is an engine driver. Thank you so much for your help...next stop Wexford!
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Have you checked the church records in addition to civil registration? For example, some Catholic marriage registers give both parents names.
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Yes I think it is either Mary Anastasia or the one born in 1893 whose father John Doyle is an engine driver. Thank you so much for your help...next stop Wexford!
Personally, I don't see a Mary Anastasia turning into Lilian, which is Elizabeth.
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I am inclined to think it is this one as I am also a little sceptical about the Mary
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02290/1859554.pdf
I don't know how to access the catholic records you mention
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Ive ordered her death certificate and my fathers birth certificate in case there is anything more on that.
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I don't know how to access the catholic records you mention
Well, it is a question of identifying where they were married - which is on the marriage registration - and then approaching whoever now has the records for that church/denomination for a copy of their register entry.
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She was married in Swansea, Wales in 1920. She was in Swansea in 1919 but nothing before. Only name on the marriage certificate is her fathers.
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Going around in circles looking at all the possibilities, there are just to many, getting a copy of her marriage from the church may prove to be the best idea, it could have her mother's name, or some other clue, she may have needed a letter of freedom from her home parish to marry there might be a record of that.
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This maybe something the Anastasia Doyle born in 1893 Cornmarket mother Anastasia Whelan has a brother Daniel born 1890
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02416/1900680.pdf
The informant looks like Bridget Meyler
In 1901 Dan Doyle is living in Cornmarket with Bridget Meyler
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Town/Cornmarket_Street/1804818/
He's listed as Grandson so you would expect his grandmother to be Whelan or Doyle but either his Grandmother remarried or his mother was a widow when so married or grandson is incorrect.
I don't think the Anastasia Doyle also living in Cornmarket is John's wife there is a Anastasia Walsh and Stephen Doyle also having children in Cornmarket
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Do you know I think this is the right one as well. When this Daniel's sister Anastasia was born the father is John and an engine driver...the same as on her marriage certificate which I have. She lived with a Daniel briefly before her marriage to my grandfather according to electoral lists in Wales. I had a gut feeling they were brother and sister but had no evidence. I am going to Swansea anyway next week so will go to the Church they married in and see if I can access any further records. This all matches up better than any other option. The dob is a bit out. Its November on the records for the 1939 register, September on this birth record. Will there be more information on the birth records n the Parish in Wexford if I went there?
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The Baptisims won't have anything else apart from sponsors names which can be handy sometimes.
I wouldn't worry to much about the date, they are often incorrect, parents fibbed if they were late registering to avoid the fine, also people often didn't know their own correct dob.
If this is the correct family where are they in 1901?
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Hello,
Who were the witnesses on her marriage to John and what address did she give? I can see Daniel Doyle in the electoral register. He is noted as a Naval/Military voter but I don't see Anastasia :-\ What address do you have for her in those registers?
I think Daniel could be living on the same road as John Collins though.
Regards
Heywood
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Many months ago I found an Anastasia Doyle living as a servant to Nicholas Stafford at age 17 many months ago. I;ve been looking for a family together in the census. Maybe children were split up for some reason. There is no family with John, Anastasia and Daniel in the census records. I have been through the whole lot of John Doyles in Ireland lol
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Kilcowan/Baldwinstown/692296/
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So Anastasia Doyle born 1893 to John Doyle and Anastasia Whelan - informant Bridget Whelen - father engine driver
Daniel Doyle born 1890 to John Doyle and Anastasia Whelan - informant Bridget Melyer - father stoker
Daniel Doyle lives with Bridget Melyer in 1911
No father and daughter Anastasia and John living together in Census 1911 or 1901. I am convinced this is them but children split up or not recorded properly and they both end up in Swansea by 1919. She stays and gets married in 1920 to my grandfather. The marriage certificate - I absolutely know its the right one - I have says Lily Doyle father John Doyle Railwayman.
Her name is recorded as Anastasia L Collins in 1939 Register as is her death. My father was Thomas R Collins but always called by his middle name.
This one matches up better than any other I have seen so far
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Hi Heywood...I cant lay my hands on the marriage certificate just now but she was married in Swansea not Wexford. The witnesses were neighbours of theirs in Swansea. The address in Swansea on her marriage certificate is the same one that Daniel Doyle is recorded as living at on the electoral register.
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That's fine and what I have.
I must have misunderstood as I thought you said you had Anastatia along with Daniel in the electoral registers. It must be that you have them both in the same road but at different times.
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It doesn't help when John Doyle and Anastasia Doyle seem to be such common names in that area. On the other side I had Collins to research which is common as well in Cork but because I knew more about that side of the family I was able to get much much further. All part of the fun!
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Anastasia Doyle, wife of John Doyle died in 1905.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05600/4574429.pdf
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Thank you all so much I feel like I;ve made a breakthrough in identifying the right Anastasia Doyle and finding the link with Daniel. Next stops Swansea and Wexford for double checking the info!
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Anastasia Doyle, wife of John Doyle died in 1905.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05600/4574429.pdf
Thank you so much. This now makes sense if their mother died why they may be split up. I cant tell you how long I have been searching!
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Haven't read all those posts just popped back to say the baptism should note who she married assuming she sent for a letter of freedom.
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Thank you Sinan and everyone else for all your help. I;m going to double check everything but this feels like it is the right Anastasia Doyle as all the other pieces match.
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As Daniel Doyle is noted N/M - possibility here
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8562878
The date of birth is not the same but within a year :-\
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Here they are in 1911 - not sure if you have them and child is, I think, Lillie - transcribed as Lizie
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003618267/
I arrived here because there is a very simple tree- very little information - about John Doyle/Anastatia Whelan. Information on there taken from this census so no child Anastasia but child quoted as 'Lizie'.
John Doyle remarried - Bridget Kelly nee Carroll abt 1909/10 - can't remember but it is on Irish Genealogy. They had a child Paul Joseph in 1910 though. You can look those details up.
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Yes I think this is right...I am literally just going through all the John Doyles on the census looking for an engine driver...but you are faster than me!
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I put 1901 instead of 1911 - have corrected it.
So I would now say that it is the right family especially with Lillie in 1911. ;)
John's mother is Mary on that census and from his marriage to Bridget his father was Luke. :)
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I cant thank you enough. Its been like scratching an itch for months and months. I am convinced this is right.
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Just catching up, looks to be sorted.
That 1911 Census just posting so anyone following can see the address.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Wexford_Urban_No_1/Cornmarket/696201/
Interesting that John's father should be Luke, Stephen Doyle of Cornmarket called a son Luke, could Stephen be John's brother.
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I thought the same re Stephen.
I can't see the John Doyle family in 1901, can you? Or have I missed a post.
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I can't see the John Doyle family in 1901, can you? Or have I missed a post.
No luck so far, only Daniel with his Granny.
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Enniscorthy_Urban/Templeshannon/1787975/
I think this is the family John is a Railway Guard and Annie daughter age 7 is the right age
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Town/John_Street/1805028/
Or this one but I think it is probably the last one I posted. Thank goodness he wasn't a farmer - there are so many of them
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Just a thought tho...if the mother of Anastasia and Daniel was Anastasia Whelan and she died in 1905 I wonder why his wife would be listed as Eliza? Unless she was Anastasia Elizabeth or he divorced and remarried. . Wonder why they would ship Daniel off and keep the rest of the children.
Anyway I suppose doing this will always raise more questions than answers. There must be local records of employees of the railways in Wexford. I am going to try that route for John Doyle I think. May give some other clues.
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Enniscorthy_Urban/Templeshannon/1787975/
I think this is the family John is a Railway Guard and Annie daughter age 7 is the right age
You need to check if the children's names match 1911 and look for births of some of the children to see mother's name.
Oh but first check if that family are in the same place in 1911
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Enniscorthy_Urban/Templeshannon/1787975/
I think this is the family John is a Railway Guard and Annie daughter age 7 is the right age
Not this one - this is John Doyle and Eliza Leary.
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Enniscorthy_Urban/Templeshannon/1787975/
I think this is the family John is a Railway Guard and Annie daughter age 7 is the right age
Need to check births for mother's name but this looks like the same family in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Wexford_No__3_Urban/Ram_Street/698108/
Edited to add, heywood already has checked.
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Let's hope we are on the right track - otherwise someone will have a lot of information about their family ;)
If I recall John and Anastasia married around 1881 so there should be children before Daniel and Anastasia/Lillie.
Lots of Doyles but here is Luke born 1886 - Bridget Meylor the informant again.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02600/1960529.pdf
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I have a gut feeling we are on the right track...thank yuou all so much
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Bridget b 1882 - informant Bridget Whelan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02779/2020470.pdf
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John Doyle (transcribed as Dogle) engine driver and family.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Urban_No__2/Main_Street_South/1805604/
Bridget Sheffield is Bridget Doyle born 1882 and a ggrandmother of my wife.
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How on earth did you find that...that's all of them in the one family home? but what of Daniel living with bridget?
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Just trying to get the timeline order (can modify for more if found)
Added more thanks to nowel
Marriage 1881 image on online yet
John Doyle and Anastasia Whelan
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kee/
Bridget 1882 Duke St Rail Fireman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02779/2020470.pdf
Luke 1886 John St. Rail Fireman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02600/1960529.pdf
John 1887 John St. Engine Driver
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02535/1939035.pdf
Anne Mary 1889 John St Fireman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02482/1921433.pdf
Daniel 1890 Cornmarket Stoker
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02416/1900680.pdf
James not found yet
Anastasia 1893 Cornmarket Engine Driver
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02290/1859554.pdf
Mother Anastasia dies 1905 Cornmarket wife of Engine Driver
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05600/4574429.pdf
John remarries Bridget Kelly/Carroll 1906
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10119/5682102.pdf
Mary Frances 1909 Cornmarket mother Bridget formally Kelly previously Carroll
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01610/1646176.pdf
Paul Joseph Doyle 1910 Cornmarket mother Bridget formally Kelly previously Carroll
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01568/1632702.pdf
Kathleen 1912 Cornmarket
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01499/1609382.pdf
Patrick Francis 1913 Cornmarket
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01438/1589317.pdf
Kevin 1915 Cornmarket
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01375/1566382.pdf
IrishGenealogy won't give us any births after 1915 for the time being.
John Doyle died 1935 Cornmarket retired Engine Driver, wife still alive, informant son Joseph, Bride St.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1935/04823/4299572.pdf
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I think that's the one and I think the Dogles are the family in the Census
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John Doyle (transcribed as Dogle) engine driver and family.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Urban_No__2/Main_Street_South/1805604/
Bridget Sheffield is Bridget Doyle born 1882 and a ggrandmother of my wife.
Excellent and now we can find the other children easier.
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John Doyle (transcribed as Dogle) engine driver and family.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Urban_No__2/Main_Street_South/1805604/
Bridget Sheffield is Bridget Doyle born 1882 and a ggrandmother of my wife.
That's super news :) thanks from me too.
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http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=WX®no=15503052
and this is where they all live :)
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Well unbelievably the pub owner at 37 main street south has just messaged me back on facebook and says they did research into the history of the pub when they took it over and have kept all the records so will get back to me tomorrow. :o
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Careful
House and building return gives 36 as the pub
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001299822/
The form numbers and the house numbers don't always match
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oh ok..the pub is definitely no 37. It looks like a shop front rather than a pub I'll see if they come up with anything. My brain is working overtime here!
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I'm busy modifying the timeline post BTW Reply#52
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aww thank you so much
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John Doyle (transcribed as Dogle) engine driver and family.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Urban_No__2/Main_Street_South/1805604/
Bridget Sheffield is Bridget Doyle born 1882 and a ggrandmother of my wife.
Hi Does your wife know anything about the Doyles through word of mouth down the family lines. All my family on that side have passed away and I didn't really know them.
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Just trying to get the timeline order (can modify for more if found)
Added more thanks to nowel
Marriage 1881 image on online yet
John Doyle and Anastasia Whelan
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kee/
Bridget 1882 Duke St Rail Fireman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02779/2020470.pdf
Luke 1886 John St. Rail Fireman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02600/1960529.pdf
John 1887 John St. Engine Driver
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02535/1939035.pdf
Anne Mary 1889 John St Fireman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02482/1921433.pdf
Daniel 1890 Cornmarket Stoker
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02416/1900680.pdf
James not found yet
Anastasia 1893 Cornmarket Engine Driver
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02290/1859554.pdf
Mother Anastasia dies 1905 Cornmarket wife of Engine Driver
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05600/4574429.pdf
John remarries Bridget Kelly/Carroll 1906
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10119/5682102.pdf
Mary Frances 1909 Cornmarket mother Bridget formally Kelly previously Carroll
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01610/1646176.pdf
Paul Joseph Doyle 1910 Cornmarket mother Bridget formally Kelly previously Carroll
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01568/1632702.pdf
Kathleen 1912 Cornmarket
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01499/1609382.pdf
Patrick Francis 1913 Cornmarket
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01438/1589317.pdf
Kevin 1915 Cornmarket
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01375/1566382.pdf
IrishGenealogy won't give us any births after 1915 for the time being.
John Doyle died 1935 Cornmarket retired Engine Driver, wife still alive, informant son Joseph, Bride St.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1935/04823/4299572.pdf
Thank you so much and I have now found James
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02376/1886868.pdf
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Update for those who are interested. I think I now have conclusive proof this is the right family. Daniel Doyle is registered in 1919 just for the one year which is the same address for Lily Doyle on her 1920 marriage certificate He is down as NM on the electoral roll. I just purchased the military records from the link that Heywood supplied from the National Archives and bingo...he is the son of John Doyle and Anastasia Whelan born in Wexford. It is highly unlikely that a different Daniel Doyle who is also in the navy/military would be at the same address in Swansea, Wales at the same time as Lily Doyle who I know is Anastasia Doyle.
Now that I know I have booked a trip to Wexford next month to see what else I can find out about the family history.
You lot are complete stars and thank you very much indeed!
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And the records show he went to Swansea a few times!!!! Woohoo
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That is such good news!
I am sure you will enjoy the trip. We did something similar a few years ago to Wexford re my husband's grandparents and thoroughly enjoyed our holiday. We have closer family in County Mayo so are familiar with that county and the landscape but Wexford was so different.
We have a couple of Anastatias in the family and whenever I see one on here my first thought is Wexford. It was a very popular name in the county.
Enjoy the trip and well done re the naval record!
Heywood
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Great news, enjoy Wexford, hopefully there still be some strawberries left for you to enjoy.
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Further update. Well I went to Wexford last week and couldn't believe how lovely and helpful people are. Thanks to some very helpful information from Michael in Wexford Library who literally spent hours going through my family history with me and a chap at Crosstown Cemetery and Jean in the graves section of Wexford Council I have absolutely now confirmed that we have the right family and have far more information on them and where they lived. You were right Sinnan they did not live in the pub! They lived above what is now a betting shop! I;ve seen the headstone for my great grandfather, great grandmother, great great grandmother and great uncles and I have an obituary which shows my grandmother in attendance at her father's funeral.
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That's wonderful, and thank you for letting us know, it's always good to hear if we were on the right track or not.
Glad you had a good experience in Wexford and found lots of family info.
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Thanks for the update and what a successful and enjoyable visit.
Heywood
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Hi Sinann, My great grandparents were Anastasia and John Doyle. He was a train driver. I know there is a connection with Swansea with a family called Sheffield and Collins. I went there with my mother years ago. It sounds like the same Doyles.
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Hi Angil.
It is happyranter you are likely related to not me. Hopefully he/she will come back and you can compare notes as it does sound like the same family.
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Hi Anvil yes it sounds like we are related. I have my family tree open on ancestry.com (look up anastasia lily doylez) and have all the swansea connections...i am from swansea...ifvyou can private message me on this please do so if you want further info...
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Angil not anvil lol