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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Kane856 on Saturday 08 July 17 11:03 BST (UK)

Title: Born Overseas
Post by: Kane856 on Saturday 08 July 17 11:03 BST (UK)
Really hit a brick wall on a relatives birth - we've tracked his father (UK national) to his death in Arizona where he was a copper miner - we can see his mother travelling to the US with her first child - on the ships manifest - his date of birth is during her stay in the US ...

My question is where would such a birth be registered? Normal online searches have proved fruitless in tracking the birth although we do have records later in life for work, marriage and death - the death certificate does point to Pinal County in Arizona but searches of on-line resources haven't brought anything up ....

Any advice would be a massive help :)
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 08 July 17 11:11 BST (UK)
Have you tried the Arizona Department of Health Services database? http://genealogy.az.gov/
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Kane856 on Saturday 08 July 17 11:19 BST (UK)
Yep - not a sausage :)

His fathers death comes up but nothing for this mystery man - I suppose it's possible that he was born on the ship either to or from the US but again where would it be registered :)
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 08 July 17 11:30 BST (UK)
Can you give us a name, parents names, and a birth year?
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Kane856 on Tuesday 11 July 17 21:46 BST (UK)
Ernest James Rowden
Born 1910
Father Henry Rowden
Mother Martha Rowden (Spark)

We've found him on a number of merchant ship crew lists listed as English as well as his Royal Navy Reserve records which list him as born in Ray, Arizona ...
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 13 July 17 18:54 BST (UK)
You most likely already know that at Henry's time of death, he had been living in (Kelvin?), Pinal, Arizona for 35 days (according to his death certificate).

You also probably have seen this site, which shows a photo of an unknown grave - which gives one an idea of how some of the graves looked ten years ago.
http://arizonagravestones.org/view.php?id=48017

Perhaps you already tried searching the following, but after a quick glance I didn't see a birth for a Rowden baby "around" 11 July 1910 (which, according to a pay site and the UK naval index, that may have been Ernest's date of birth):
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ke5/

Have you found Martha's return to England (I have not yet found it)?  I'm guessing no, as her two children should have accompanied her back to England.   :-\

Do you have her first son's exact date of birth, please (so that Ernest's birth could be roughly figured out)?

Again, you may have tried this resource; I didn't find anything for the Rowden's in Arizona   :-\
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/#tab=tab_advanced_search
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 13 July 17 19:49 BST (UK)
Martha arrives in New York with just one child on 8 May, heading for Ray, Arizona
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 13 July 17 21:51 BST (UK)
Perhaps the 1910 census enumerator wrote down the incorrect date, but...   ???

The S.S. Baltic sailed from Liverpool on April 30 and arrived 8 May, 1910.

The 1910 census return that shows the Rowdens was dated May 5, 1910.  No date of immigration was shown for Martha nor little William.  The previous page has a date of May 4, and the page before that has May 3 which leads me to believe that he was keeping track of the dates that he wrote down information.

I would think that Martha would have arrived in Arizona before Ernest's birth in July (if the July date is correct), but the above date issue is odd.
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 13 July 17 22:20 BST (UK)
I am still trying to find the family after Henry's passing, hoping to find Ernest's birthplace.

Again, you may already know this, but
Sailing on board the Cedric, arriving 6 November 1910, was
Joseph Spark, age 24, Boilermaker?, last permanent residence Sth Shields, final destination Phoenix, Ariz.  Born Sth Shields
Going to Father, John Spark, Ray Central? Copper? Mining Co, Ray, Arizona

Sailing on board the California, arriving 26 September 1910, was
John J Spark, age 53, Engineman?, last permanent residence Sth Shields, final destination Ray, Ariz.  Born Newcastle
Going to "Visit?" Son in law, Henry Rowden, Ray Central Copper Mine Co., Ray Ariz

Update:  A bit about the Copper Mine:
http://tucson.com/news/local/mine-tales-ray-mining-district-has-history-of-more-than/article_5560fe20-f4c4-559f-8298-1c8be0b75c77.html
There are images of the area online
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 13 July 17 22:53 BST (UK)
The family sailed back to England, arriving 9 April 1911 on board the Cedric (Third Class)
John Sparks, Engineer
Joseph Sparks, Boilermaker
Martha Rowde?, Housewife
William Rowde? child between 1 and 12
Ernest Rowde?, infant
All are shown as "English"
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: barryd on Friday 14 July 17 01:26 BST (UK)
Census 1910 Part of Pinal, Arizona, taken, May 5, 1910

Henry Rowden,  Head 41, 2 children of this marriage, arrived in the USA 1889. an Alien. Married for 2 years, with English parents.Copper Miner.

Wife, Martha E. 26, English Parents
Child William H. Rowden, 0 years

Died.
Henry Rowden (born 1870). Died 14 November 1910, Pinal. Father William, Mother ?. Arizona Death Certs.

Henry Rowden possibly born 1869,  Whitstable, Kent? 
Title: Re: Born Overseas
Post by: Kane856 on Friday 14 July 17 05:16 BST (UK)
Appreciate the help folks - we did have a lot of that info but there's a fair amount that is new to us and dovetails nicely on the Spark side of the family where we've found a Spark brother who had returned from working in Arizona in 1910 through a Facebook group "Fietscher Fotos of South Shields & surrounding areas."- a lady posted a picture of her relative with the name and confirmed that he was brother to Martha leading us off on the Spark trail :)

Of special interest are the mis-spelled names in Lisa from California's post, that's the first (possible) mention of Ernest at this early age we've had.

Thankyou so much for the time you've all spent - can't wait for the weekend to follow up on the clues :D