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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: TCosy on Monday 03 July 17 07:54 BST (UK)
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Can anybody please assist with the service details of Lieutenant Robert Walton BROWN, believe he was in the King's Liverpool Regiment 1914 - 1918. Died in France.
Robert was born on the 24 Jan 1879 in Alnwick, Northumberland and died believed to be 30 May 1918.
TCosy
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TNA appears to have some information
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1088874
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Thanks rosie99 but I can not seem to view the National Archives online from my end and Kew is a 22 hour flight from here.
Cheers
TCosy
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It may be an idea if you put your location on your profile so that we do not suggest you visit places that are not in the same country as you are.
Are you saying that you cannot see the link I have posted
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Hi rosie99 sorry for my 2 faux pas - still learning RootsChat etiquette. WRT the link it takes me to the NA site but the items sought are not available to view online. They can be ordered for viewing at the NA in Kew.
Cheers
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The interesting thing is that his medal card doesn't have a regimental number on it, but it does have some other interesting information.
He was a lieutenant, gazetted here into 15th (Reserve) Battalion in August 1915
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29261/supplement/8002
The long, long trail website is excellent for finding regiment/battalion/division general movements
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/kings-liverpool-regiment/
He was ineligible for medals. This would only be so if he never served overseas and warrants further investigation.
He was on the Silver War Badge list in February 1918.
First up, follow Rosie's link and get his service record to find which Battalions he served in. Yes, you will have to pay for it, but it will be worth it. Also, see if you can get the War Diary for his Battallions from them too. Officers are usually named when injured or killed.
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Thank you both
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The Robert Walton Brown from Alnwick who died in France on 30 May 1918 was a Private in the South Wales Borderers.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/725476/BROWN,%20ROBERT%20WALTON
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The Robert Walton Brown who was a 2nd Lieutenant in the Kings Liverpool Regiment was I think the son of Harry Brown, a Liverpool timber merchant, and born in USA circa 1895. The address on the MIC (41 Castle Street, Liverpool) is the address of his father's firm.
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Hi rosie99 sorry for my 2 faux pas - still learning RootsChat etiquette. WRT the link it takes me to the NA site but the items sought are not available to view online. They can be ordered for viewing at the NA in Kew.
Cheers
As this is probably not 'your' Robert Walton Brown you won't need the information - for future information TNA website also allows you to 'Request a copy' which can be sent digitally or by post. From experience these copies can be expensive but it is always worth getting a quote
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Thank you again rosie99.
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The Robert Walton Brown from Alnwick who died in France on 30 May 1918 was a Private in the South Wales Borderers.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/725476/BROWN,%20ROBERT%20WALTON
ShaunJ spot on I think I may have found Robert but this seems to open more questions, as I note it is said he is the son of Mrs Elizabeth Pyle nee Brown.
More investigation required.
Thanks ShaunJ
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There is a birth reg
BROWN, ROBERT WALTON (no mothers maiden name)
1879 March Quarter in ALNWICK Volume 10B Page 359
He is probably illegitimate ???
Possible marriage for mother
Marriages Jun qtr 1890
BROWN Elizabeth
Pyle Edward
Newcastle T 10b 48
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rosie99 you rock.
Thanks. Went from a Lieutenant to a Private (not that there is anything wrong with being a Private) to possibly illegitimate. :P
I have not come across the book you refer to. Is it digitised and online?
TCosy
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Content to do the easy bit & say he was in this shaded area at the time. Can't get it any closer as the Batt. were sent wherever the gaps needed plugging as this was the German Spring Offensive which put the French & British on the back foot & forced a withdrawal & as such it was pretty much back to open warfare with the Germans attacking from the North & West.
The Soissons Memorial is very close to this spot.
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The Robert Brown who died on 30 May 1918 mentioned before was at the time of his death in the 6th Battalion South Wales Borderers as ShaunJ has cited. The Register of Soldiers' Effects says he left his effects and gratuity to his mother Elizabeth.
6 SWB were the Pioneer Battalion in 30 Division. He died at Luthernay Farm. This book puts Luthernay Farm in context. https://archive.org/details/brigadierinfranc00cumm pages 160. 176 and 187 although this does not specifically describe his battalion's part in it, for that you need to look at their war diary on Ancestry. **
Sound more like your man?
maxD
** Or wait for Jim1's next expert post!
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Using the map from MaxD's book & looking at the diary I'm not convinced he died at Luthernay farm.
The Batt. were away from the fighting by the 30th. so he must have died from wounds earlier or the date is wrong which is quite understandable considering the situation they were in.
They were sent up as re-inforcements on the 27th. to the Vaux-Varennes to Fromelles rd. & the area in front marked in red.
Forced back on the 28th. the Batt. picked up several stragglers from other Batts. formed a composite Batt. & plugged the gap marked yellow but were again forced back & briefly came under orders of the French & took up a line W. of Rosnay & came under a further attack then ordered by their own Div. (which at this time was the 25th.) to rendezous at Rosnay on the 29th. & make their way to the transport lines at Mecy-Premecy. While doing this they were seen by the Germans & shelled sustaining a few casualties but no mention if any were fatal.
They had left the area by the 30th.
Where/when he died depends on which Coy. he was in & on what day.
Luthernay farm may be a generalisation as it would be a landmark in the area.
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WOW maxD and jim1 you guys are awesome
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Not really, its just what we do when not saving the world and leaping tall buildings with a single bound ;D ;D
Always glad to help.
maxD
Jim - I think you may be right about the generalisation, it is the Effects Register that gives the location. Your map and description is indeed awesome.