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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: LornaJane on Thursday 29 June 17 15:29 BST (UK)
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Dear fellow researchers,
I am having no luck in finding my 3rd great-grandfather from German records. Can you help?
According to UK census records, he was born in 1831 in Lubeck, Schleswig-Holstein, Germany. However, I cannot find anything that relates to his birth in Germany and seem to have exhausted all avenues.
His name is HENRY HEMSTEDT. What I know:
- He married Mary Ann Pottinger (born 1841 in Norwich) and they had six children: Henry, Edward, Malinda, William, Alice and Eleanor. I cannot find their marriage record.
- All children were born in the UK, though in several places it seems: Colchester, Statford, and Kent.
- Henry's occupation is listed as a Master Boot Maker.
- I believe that he died in 1895 in Greenwich.
Can anyone recommend any German record bases that I could try? Or reasons why I might not be able to find his birth or marriage certificate?
Thank you in advance for any advise,
With warm regards,
Lorna
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Erm, julira hemstedt's 1859 birth in colchester has a mmn of blomfield./ bloomfield
(First child of marriage, Died young)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DQP-ZYM candidate spouse julia bloomfield
In 1861, the wife julia is with her birth family.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7HW-82P
Change of mmn for offspring for after 1869 / malinda . Its Downning/ Downing
Where did pottinger come from?
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Malinda Leila b 1869 MMN Downing West Ham
Alice Louisa 1871 MMN Downing Portsea Island
Eleanor Laura Adelaide MMN Downing 1879 Greenwich 2 years after Eleanor Lucy b 1877 in Poplar also Downing who died 1878
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I suspect hes not married mary ann.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27D-DJCZ 1881 for wife julia (nee Bloomfield) her death is in 1898.
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William 1873 Downing
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Julia died Colchester 1898 aged 59 ties in with the Colchester births MMN Blomfield.
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Hi Lorna,
You have encountered the two major difficulties in the research of German ancestors:
1) Civil registration was, for the most part, only introduced in the territories forming the German Empire in the mid-1870s. Prior to that, births, marriages and deaths were recorded in parish registers;
2) Very few German records are available online; either civil or parish records.
The censuses for Lübeck are, however, part of the collection of records available with a worldwide (or German) ancestry subscription.
To locate a baptismal record, you will need to know Henry's religion, i.e. Protestant, Catholic or other, you will then need to determine which churches existed at the time in Lübeck and where the parish registers are held (if they have survived).
It is, of course, also entirely possible that Henry was not actually born in the city of Lübeck, but in a small village nearby.
I think the Lübeck censuses are your best bet.
Justin
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Lorna,
You're in luck!!! There are several records for Henry online.
Heinrich Detlev Martin Hemstedt was baptised on 31 October 1830
Parents: Paul Gottfried Hemstedt and Catharina Dorothea Ludowika born Petersen
Pauline's discovery of the daughter Elizabeth who had been born in Lübeck in 1867/8 is the fact that nails it.
Sophia Anna Elisabeth Hemstedt was born in Lübeck on 16 Dec 1867 to
Heinrich Detlev Martin Hemstedt and .... Julie Blomfield
Can you access the German records on ancestry? Heinrich, his parents and siblings appear in many records including censuses, citizenship registers, baptisms, marriages and burials AND there is even a family coat of arms!!!
The coat of arms is described as distillation equipment on gold (Destillierapparat auf Gold) and below that a hat with a white and red feather (Zwickelhut mit weiß und roter Feder).
The text at the bottom indicates that the coat of arms was created Diedrich Johann Hemstedt, a spirits distiller (Branntweinbrenner) who was recorded in the 1815 census of Lübeck and appears to have been the father of Paul Gottfried H., i.e. Heinrich's grandfather.
Justin
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Well, That's a cracker of a result.
Lorna, if you don't have worldwide ancestry at home, then it should be available with the Library Edition (accessed through many public libraries).
Regards, Pauline
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Well done JustinL.
Looks like you've found life before they came to UK and PaulineJ has some great find. PaulineJ and myself have proved births of children with 2 women.
If you have access to sites you will be able to confirm what we have found. GRO is very good now to search for mother's maiden name prior to 1911.
:)
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Thank you all so much for taking the time to search the records for me. Thank you too for the two personal messages nudging me to look at what has been found. These records are fascinating, however, they put a spanner in my works for if they are correct, then I shall need to work out where I have gone wrong with my tree thus far. The trouble I have is this:
Elizabeth Mary Hempsted born Jan 1887 is my great-grandmother. She was born in Hackney.
Census records state that her father was Henry John Hemstedt. Born May 1860 in Colchester.
His father is Henry Hemstedt - the one I am trying to find. However, 1871 census records state that his mother is Mary Ann - not Julia.
I must have gone wrong somewhere, but where I do not know. Did Henry have two families? Having both Lubeck and Colchester associated with both Mary Ann Pottinger and Julia Bloomfield is odd.
Again, thank you all. I am going to have to scratch my head and start again with my great-grandmother I think!
Warmest regards, Lorna
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It's not Mary Ann Pottinger it's Mary Ann Downing see the later births mother's maiden name it's Downing.
Census records show the relationship to the head of the family so Henry John 1860 is the son of the head of the family i.e. Henry Snr and Mary Ann is down as Henry Snr's wife not necessarily the mother of the children.
You have to be careful when more than 1 mother is involved. A new husband is more apparent if the children keep their father's surname. We've all learned this and I've tripped up over this, now I am more careful.
This is where to check the maiden name of the mother.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Put Henry John (1861 birth registration) in the boxes and you'll see his mother's maiden name as a result of the search, it's not Mary Ann. You can order his birth certificate from this site at £9.25 - do not go to any other site for birth, marriage or death certs. as they charge extra.
Hope this helps you.
:)
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Time for review(s). Spanners-a-plenty
1901 census. Head of house is a shoemaker
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X98M-WHN
There are another couple of births to this family unit after agnes
HEMSTEDT, AGNES WINIFRED FARRELL 1898 J Quarter HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 578
HEMSTEDT, THOMAS PATRICK FARRELL 1896 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 575
HEMSTEDT, FRANCIS JOSEPH FARRELL 1893 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 584
HEMSTEDT, HENRY EDWARD FRANCIS FARRELL 1891 M 1/4 in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 595
(death? HEMSTEDT, HENRY EDWARD FRANCIS 1891 S1/4 POPLAR Volume 01C Page 339)
HEMSTEDT, HELEN THERESA FARRELL 1889 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 596
HEMSTEDT, ELIZABETH MARY FARRELL 1887 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 587
HEMSTEDT, HENRY JOSEPH FARRELL 1885 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 616
1891 census. Head-of-house is a Boot maker
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QHHC-7MM
Marriage appears to have been in Colchester Dec 1883.
Still no Pottinger(s) around. Can we ask where you picked up the name?
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Just spotted Julia (with lubeck-born elizabeth) in 1871
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFFT-5DX
The earlier (ie before elizabeth) kids b to Julia are residing with Henry Hemstedt &Mary Ann Downing
In 1881, Julia's re-acquired her 1863 kid Edward William Hemstedt.
At least in all this, your line is through Julia, i suspect we'll never work out who mary ann downing was.
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The source for Pottinger may well be family trees on ancestry.
There are a couple of trees for Henry Hemstedt and they report that Mary Ann / Marianne was a Pottinger. There are, of course, no documents to substantiate the assertion!!
Mary Ann's birthplace is anything but clear; they were reported in the censuses as follows:
1871 - Norwich
1881 - St. Giles, London
1891 - Deptford
1901 - Norwich
1911 - London
Justin
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Dear all,
I cannot thank you enough for the time and efforts you have put into this search for me. This part of my family tree has been a mystery for several years, and yet with all your expertise you have managed to uncover so much in just a few days. It appears that Henrich was a character! I am now on a quest to find exactly what he was up to on all those travels!
Once again, grateful thanks to you all and happy future researching,
Lorna