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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ninatoo on Sunday 31 July 05 07:33 BST (UK)
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Hi all!
I have just received this wonderful photo from my dad. It is in remarkable condition as it is behind an excellent frame and has been put away for many years.
Can someone please estimate when this photo might be taken?
Thanks in advance,
Nina
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/ninatoo/granelli_resize.jpg)
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Hi Nina,
Can you tell me if it is mounted onto a card and if so what the card looks like? Or perhaps scan it in full and post again? It would be helpful to know the colour of the card, any writing on it and also what's on the back, if anything.
As the lady is older, the clothing may not be a reliable dating source (she might not have been up with the latest fashions!) but the photo and card style may give us good clues.
Cheers
Prue
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Hiya Prue,
I knew you would take a look! ;)
Well, I have had the photo in my possession for only a few hours, but I will tell you that it looks like it may have been a reprint, even though it is on card. I could be wrong as I know nothing about old photos. There are definite retouching marks around the eyes, hands and collar. My dad took it out of the frame for a little bit to see if we could find a photographer's name, but to no avail. It looks to me like it has been mounted onto the card. The photographic paper itself looks very thin, as thin as an ordinary sheet of paper.
The photo is very large, and as such I can't get her feet in my scanner. The dress reaches the floor, and may have a black border at the bottom, but it also may have been added later. It is mounted in a glass frame with clips at the side, and is framed by mirror, if you see what I mean. The corners of the frame are cut on the diagonal. I think the framing may have been done around the 1940's.
Colour of the card is a kind of pale yellowish hue.
Any ideas?
Nina
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Hi Nina,
Oops, sounds like I'm getting a reputation ;)
I love these puzzles, it's good practise for me as I need to identify photos every day in my job (conservator) so the more I look at the more knowledge I build up.
My first thoughts based on what you've told me, and the picture:
You mention you though it might be a reprint; I think it's very likely that this was an enlargement done from a glass negative. This would account for the retouching you can see around her face etc...it was very common to do the "tarting up" on the negative itself by scraping or painting over the offending bits. Enlargements were difficult before the invention of bromide emulsions in the late 1880s and even then it took a while for them to become widely used. So that is going to help us narrow down the date a bit.
Thin paper mounted to card suggests it is albumen paper - this was used from the 1850s through to about 1890. It was still used after that, but not very commonly.
In summary, my present thoughts are that the photo (at least this print of it) dates from between the late 1880s and the mid 1890s. (I reserve the right to completely change my mind!!)
I haven't been able to date the clothes yet but I'm working on it. ;D
Prue
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Wow, thank you for your efforts so far Prue! I did look at some of the links on the Photograph restoration page, and was looking in particular for a similar sleeve on the dress, as the one in the photo has a little 'kerchief detail at the top. The closest on there was about 1880's.
My dad is going to get a shock. He was always told this woman was Granny Granelli. He naturally thought it was his OWN granny, but she was too young, obviously. However, even his great grandmother was born in the 1850's and this woman seems older than 40-ish. However I am aware that life in those days wasn't good for the complexion!
There is a good chance that this photo was taken in Italy. We were so hoping for a photographer's mark because it may have given us the family's Italian town. Oh well!
I looked at the photo out of the frame again, and the paper IS stuck onto thickish card, and I would say the photographic paper is even thinner than standard paper of today!
I love this stuff too Prue!
I have a sister-in-law who is a conservator, but I like this way of finding out. More fun, and besides I don't get to see the SIL much these days.
Thanks again, and let me know what else you can come up with!
Nina
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Nina,
I agree with Prue. Most likely 1885/1895. Personally I incline to the latter.
Certainly looks like an Italian background --- and typical black costume.
There will be significance in what she is holding in her hand. Can you give any detail on what it is and what is on it ?
Percy.
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Hi Percy,
I think it is just a handkerchief, though even in the original it is hard to tell. Her hand has been retouched you see, so the detail is altered a little.
Nina
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I don't know Nina, I think she's holding a little card or something like that. Probably impossible to tell now, though. :(
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You're right Prue, it does look a little stiff to be a hanky. But I wonder why she would be holding a card?
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Maybe she's holding a photograph? I have a photo of my great-great-grandmothers step-mother dressed very similarly all in black and holding a photo (can just make out the silhouette of a woman) in the same fashion. I have a theory that it is a rememberance or mourning photo, and the photo is of her step-daughter who had died at about the same time.
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Thanks for the suggestion Miriam. I can't see any detail on the card, other than it has been slightly touched up in the same manner as her collar, leading me to believe that it was a hanky with some lace on it.
I am thinking this lady must be Maria Granelli, m.s. de Lucchi, whose son Camillo was born in 1878. I don't know anything about Maria; her age, when she married etc, but given that my dad always said this was Granny Granelli, it must be her. Or not?
Opinions anyone?
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Looks more like a piece of card/photo .
And her probable age looks about right for "Granny" given my guestimate of 1895ish for the picture.
PERCY
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Hi Nina,
I came across this chat thread while doing a search for info on my great, great? grandfather, Camillo Granelli. I was born in Glasgow in 1960 and named after him. I, in fact may be related to the women in your photo as my grandmother and father both spoke of "Granny Granelli". I left Glasgow with my mother for Canada in 1963 and then Hollywood, California in 1969. The picture seems oddly familiar to me. I have pictures of Camillo Granelli to share. Apparently, if I am correct, Camillo Granelli gave birth to my grandmother, Margeret. Who later married an Irishman named Coogan. My Dad also has cousins with the last name Carson who still reside in Glasgow.
Gee, we must chat further!
Camillo
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Hi all,
It's been a long time since this thread was replied to, but I just wanted to tell Percy and Prue that it was indeed a photo in the lady's hand. I had a computer crash not long after I posted the main photo here, and forgot to mention that I had fiddled about with the left hand and saw she had a card in it. I even managed (I think) to get an impression of a very vague mini portrait, but of course I lost all my attempts back then and I can't recall what I did to get to that point.
At any rate, I also believe the woman is NOT a Granelli after all. The photo was in possession of my own granny and I think it is one of HER grandmothers, either Janet Main Easton, or Jane Inglis/McLaughlin Cotterill. After doing a comparison of all my family photos for resemblances I favour the latter. Also she was born in about 1842, whereas Janet Main Easton was born about 1847-1852.
If this is a mourning portrait, both ladies qualify as Janet had lost her mother in 1884, and Jane had lost a son in 1890. Either of these ladies make more sense to me...why would my granny keep a photo of her X's side of the family.
Oh, and as for the post from ccc333, well that was a reunion story and a half...my dad is now in touch with his half brothers that he had not seen in 40 years. ;D
Nina
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Hi Nina :D
Thanks for the update! And it's great to know that you have (kind of) found out who the photo is of...probably Jane who lost her son in 1890 I would think.
Prue