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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: johnstonsimon on Saturday 03 June 17 20:12 BST (UK)

Title: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: johnstonsimon on Saturday 03 June 17 20:12 BST (UK)
Can anyone suggest an idea/alternate as to what this surname is? It's been recorded as Dunigan on the marriage record but this name doesn't bring up other records, plus I see another 'i' in there. The three examples are the same family name. Two of Mary and her father William.

Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 03 June 17 20:15 BST (UK)
Dumigan or Duignan perhaps
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: johnstonsimon on Saturday 03 June 17 20:17 BST (UK)
Dumigan or Duignan perhaps
Thanks it could be I guess. One thing though is it sure looks like the 3rd to last letter is an i
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 03 June 17 20:24 BST (UK)
What date and where was it?

If Scotland - depending on the date - have you looked for them on censuses to see surname?
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Treetotal on Saturday 03 June 17 23:31 BST (UK)
Could it be Dunegan?
Carol
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rena on Saturday 03 June 17 23:34 BST (UK)
I think it's "Dunegin", but to my mind it's an incorrect transcription due to the awful pen nib and probably a broad dialect. 

I'm wondering if it's a variation of the Irish surname "Donegan".
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 03 June 17 23:43 BST (UK)
What was the husband's name please & as Carole says, where & when as some people are pretty good at rooting things out?

Annie
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rena on Sunday 04 June 17 00:45 BST (UK)
As I think the surname starts with "Don" and not "Dun", I've found an Irish pronunciation website with sound to make comparisons.

To see if I could be correct, I chose a two syllable word "Donnaigh" in order to discover if any Irish dialects made the sound "Dun" as per the spelling on the certificate.

Aha!   listen to the CONNACHT DIALECT (click on link below) -  the "o" is pronounced as a "u" and
it's totally different to the other two examples. 

 http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/donnaigh

Here's the home webpage of the website in case anyone needs it.

http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/



 



Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 04 June 17 01:17 BST (UK)
Thanks Rena for link!

That may explain why my 'Do
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]n[/color][/b]agh
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]u[/color][/b]e[/color]' (several variations) has also been listed as 'Du
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]n[/color]ahoue[/color]'  :-\

I've come across about 12 or more variations of the name although I only have docs. with 8 of them as it's too expensive taking a gamble  ;D

Annie
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: johnstonsimon on Sunday 04 June 17 01:38 BST (UK)
Thank you all for the suggestions on info. It sure is amazing the variations you find with peoples' surnames.

The husband's name was Henry McKensie Shaw. There were married on November 3rd 1885. I wasn't sure if posting a link to the PDF file was against the rules or not so played it safe.

On PRONI's website they actually have the name recorded as Dumgin but I think that's way off the mark.

My main reason for clarifying it is I'm trying to find the birth record for their son Samuel Shaw. However it's very possible he was born out of wedlock because all the indicators I have so far for him have him born 1882/3. The 1901 Census only lists him aged 18 so he's likely an only child. (at least surviving)

Mary was born around 1855 in Co. Down, Ireland.

I'll try some of the suggestions and see what I can find :)

Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 04 June 17 01:48 BST (UK)
If the parents are on the 1911 it will give how many children born, how many living & how many deceased.

I think this may refer to the female (regardless of how many marriages) but someone with better knowledge may know for sure  :-\


Annie
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: johnstonsimon on Sunday 04 June 17 02:06 BST (UK)
If the parents are on the 1911 it will give how many children born, how many living & how many deceased.

I think this may refer to the female (regardless of how many marriages) but someone with better knowledge may know for sure  :-\


Annie
Thanks for the advice. This had actually occurred to me too but the husband died in 1909. The son Samuel is married. The only record that I can find for a Mary Shaw that roughly fits has her living with Boarders on Tomb St, Belfast. She's a widow and actually has 'None' for children albeit crossed out.

This couple lived on Tomb street when there were married too.
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 04 June 17 02:18 BST (UK)
Can you take a closer look at what is 'crossed out' as it may have a number which may not have been obvious before.....one never knows but hopes  :-\  ;D

Annie
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: johnstonsimon on Sunday 04 June 17 02:18 BST (UK)
Just to add, I have the record from Ancestry Ireland and they also list the surname as Dumgin.  ???

The scribe was pretty bad but also the image quality isn't great. I was also having trouble with one of the witnesses. I could read William McKracken but had trouble with the other one. Ancestry Ireland has it as Jemima Cathcart?
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 04 June 17 02:39 BST (UK)
I would say William McCracken & Jemima Cathcart?

Both those names I know (have seen & heard of) whereas your original name I've never come across i.e. can't even guess.

Annie
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: johnstonsimon on Sunday 04 June 17 02:40 BST (UK)
Can you take a closer look at what is 'crossed out' as it may have a number which may not have been obvious before.....one never knows but hopes  :-\  ;D

Annie
This is the census record. At least I think it says 'None'.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001400965/ (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001400965/)

Again though I've searched all births from 1880-1900 in Belfast for all babies born Shaw and looked at the mother's maiden name. There's nothing close matching the marriage certificate.

Mary and Henry were around 30 years old when there were married. I wondered if she had been married before but the marriage records her as a Spinster.
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: johnstonsimon on Sunday 04 June 17 02:41 BST (UK)
I would say William Mc
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]C[[/color]/b]racken[/color] & Jemima Cathcart?

Both those names I know (have seen & heard of) whereas your original name I've never come across i.e. can't even guess.

Annie
Yes you're right.  ;D
Title: Re: Help with surname on a marriage certificate
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 04 June 17 03:07 BST (UK)
If I didn't know prior what it said re None, I'd have struggled to work out what it says as the 'N' has a rather strange flourish  :)

"The only record that I can find for a Mary Shaw that roughly fits has her living with Boarders on Tomb St, Belfast. She's a widow and actually has 'None' for children albeit crossed out"

Mary is the 'Head' i.e. she has 'Boarders' living with her  ;)

She signed her name with an 'X' i.e. she may have had someone help her to fill in the details but maybe there was a misunderstanding about children born alive to this marriage being as she was a widow  ??? Just a thought!  :-\

Address you say fits so I'm unsure why 'None' for children other than what I thought above.

Annie