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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: busynana on Friday 02 June 17 01:00 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for any information on Emanuel and Phoebe Cattle. I'm at the beginning of my search and this is my first post. Any help would be appreciated.
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You are in the wrong area. This is the How to use Rootschat page.
Post in correct area with places of birth and/or county of birth, and we will be very pleased to help you. :) ;)
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Welcome to rootschat busynana. I will ask a moderator to move this to the appropriate board.
You will need to give us some more information about Emanuel and Phoebe before we can begin to help:
What do you already know about this couple?
What country were they born and lived in?
Can you give us some dates please?
Is Phoebe's maiden surname Cattle, or is Cattle her married name?
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Thanks for doing this. They came from Wales I think. Phoebe married Emanuel Cattle but I don't know her maiden name. Emanuel was born in 1886. If the moderator could move it to Glamorganshire, Swansea or Neath that would be good. This is my first post so I have to learn my way around the website. Cheers
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Hi
Welcome to rootschat
Are you able to tell us if they had any children, if so what were their names & approx years of birth
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Is this Emanuel
1901 Herbert Street, Pontardawe
John Cattle 50 occ Cycle Agent bn Somerset
Margaret Cattle 53 bn Glamorgan, Wales
Emanuel Cattle Adopted Son Single 15 bn Pontardawe, Glamorgan
RG13/5064 f20 p11
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Topic moved.
Did Emanuel go to the USA in 1910 ?
ev
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FreeBMD has 4 Emanuel Birth Regs ( I didnt enter a Surname) 1885-1887 Glamorganshire
Mapley and Villa 1885
Harrison 1886
Madden 1887
GRO Index has;
Madden, Mothers mn King
Mapley Mothers mn Lewarne
Villa, Mothers mn Russell
Harrison, as Mothers mn Emanuel
1891 John/Margaret have a Adopted Son John Hill Bale
Gro Index has;
BALE, JOHN HILL, NO Mothers mn***
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 844
Did they change his name or another Child?
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1891 - RG12/4469 f2 p10
John Cattle 40 bn Halse, Somerset
Margaret Cattle 44 bn Glamorganshire
John Hill Bale 5 bn Swansea Adopted
Keturah Roberts 24 Lodger
James Meadows 65 Lodger
Births Jun 1886
John Hill Bale
Swansea 11a 844
No mothers maiden name showing on GRO index so possibly illegitimate
I wonder if this was Emanuel though it is strange to give a child new first name after the age of 5 ::)
Beat me to it Trish ;D
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Answer to rosie99 - I think it is. I've been told his birth name was John Hill Bale but the only way I can verify it is by reading the 1891 and 1901 censuses.
Answer to ev - It is possible they moved to the USA but I have no information about it at all.
Also, they had one son, Thomas John Cattle (born in 1905), who was staying with his Grandmother Margaret according to the 1911 census. I don't know why he was left behind.
I think it is the same but agree about changing his name at that age. There is an Elizabeth A Bale on the 1891 census who works for William A Hill. Curious!
If anyone has evidence, can you please let me know how I can obtain copies.
Any information is welcome and thanks for the quick responses. :)
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Marriage Reg June 1904 Swansea, 11a 1511
Phoebe HOPKINS on page but 1 male spouse missing.
Birth Reg Gro Index;
CATTLE, THOMAS JOHN, Mother mn HOPKINS***
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in NEATH Volume 11A Page 1016
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Cant find a Marriage for John/ Margaret either ???
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Cant find a Marriage for John/ Margaret either ???
Thanks, trish1120. I have Thomas's birth cert and it names Emanuel and Phoebe. I'll have to order a copy of the marriage certs for John and Margaret and Emanuel and Phoebe. There's a story here!
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Yes there is a story ;D
I would get the M/C of Phoebe Hopkins and Birth Cert of John Hill Bale.
Hopefully John HB has a Mother Elizabeth A Bale :)
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A very warm welcome to Rootschat
Welsh newspapers on line http://newspapers.library.wales
click on link and put "emannel cattle" in search field (note spelling and include " " as part of search key). The snippet returned confirms the adoption.
At the moment clicking on headline "THEFT OF SILVER AT ALLTWEN" delivers original newspaper page but the article (last entry in end column) is not easy to read. Also tab down to last entry in column "37 articles on this page"
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The plot thickens ;D
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Better feed the animals and myself, back later.
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A very warm welcome to Rootschat
Welsh newspapers on line http://newspapers.library.wales
click on link and put "emannel cattle" in search field (note spelling and include " " as part of search key). The snippet returned confirms the adoption.
At the moment clicking on headline "THEFT OF SILVER AT ALLTWEN" delivers original newspaper page but the article (last entry in end column) is not easy to read. Also tab down to last entry in column "37 articles on this page"
Thank you so much; awesome! I think it's him. I don't think it's a formal adoption as they didn't happen before 1927. He could have used either name by the look of it. I'll keep searching the newspapers.
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FindMyPast has a military record (4 pages - but not much detail) for an Emmanuel Cattle, born 1886.
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Cant find a Marriage for John/ Margaret either ???
Thanks, trish1120. I have Thomas's birth cert and it names Emanuel and Phoebe. I'll have to order a copy of the marriage certs for John and Margaret and Emanuel and Phoebe. There's a story here!
Re. Emanuel and Phoebe's marriage cert it may (no guarantee) be available, off shelf, in my local archives - depends on their having married in one of the local Parish Churches (Registry Office marriages not covered). Will see what I can find this afternoon.
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Baptism - All Saints Church, Kilvey (Swansea)
Born - 19th Jan 1886; Bap'd - 10th March 1886; Name - John Hill Bale; Parents' Names - Elizabeth Bale; Abode - Foxhole; Quality, Trade, Profession - not completed
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Burials - St. Peter's, Pontardawe, Parish of Llangiwg
John Cattle; Abode - Herbert Street, Pontardawe; Date - 22nd Sep 1903; age 50 years
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Excellent find hanes tulu for the Birth/Baptism :)
Saved 9 pounds there!
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Did Margaret (re)marry in 1912 - reg dist Pontardawe?
She didn't include her marital status on the 1911 Census return - although a 3rd person has later added "married".
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Baptism - All Saints Church, Kilvey (Swansea)
Born - 19th Jan 1886; Bap'd - 10th March 1886; Name - John Hill Bale; Parents' Names - Elizabeth Bale; Abode - Foxhole; Quality, Trade, Profession - not completed
Thank's for the info. Where did you find this? I have a copy of his birth cert and it shows he was born on 23 Mar 1886, 68 Foxhill Rd, Llansamlet Lower. I found his baptism record online (a photo of the page) and it shows he was baptised on 28 Apr 1886 at Llansamlet. Can there be two of them?
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A very warm welcome to Rootschat
Welsh newspapers on line http://newspapers.library.wales
click on link and put "emannel cattle" in search field (note spelling and include " " as part of search key). The snippet returned confirms the adoption.
At the moment clicking on headline "THEFT OF SILVER AT ALLTWEN" delivers original newspaper page but the article (last entry in end column) is not easy to read. Also tab down to last entry in column "37 articles on this page"
This article is amazing! It looks like he was charged 6 days after his son was born. His son was Thomas John Cattle (my Grandfather) and he was born 2 May 1905. The article also proves that John Hill Bale was Emanuel Cattle and that was the missing link! Thank you so much.
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FindMyPast has a military record (4 pages - but not much detail) for an Emmanuel Cattle, born 1886.
Thanks. I did find a record for him and I will revisit it very soon. I'm interested in his military history, too.
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I am amazed at all the efforts you have put into helping me with my mystery and I thank you very much. I have to look up some of your suggestions so will sort out what I have and get back on it during the week. I also need to read some more of those newspaper articles which are very interesting. I will be watching this thread closely in case something else comes up but I will be back very soon.
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Hi,
My Aunty has sent me a news item from the Cambrian which is interesting. I'm sure it is Emanuel Cattle and it makes it clear he and Phoebe weren't married when Thomas John Cattle was born. Have a look at: http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3348017/3348019/18/emmanuel%20cattle
The article is at the bottom of the seventh column.
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That is excellent, so Phoebe Elizabeth was already married to a Mr Jones ???
31 Ethel Street, Neath was empty in 1901
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Marriage Reg June 1904 Swansea, 11a 1511
Phoebe HOPKINS on page but 1 male spouse missing.
Possibly David Jones then :-\
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Marriage Reg June 1904 Swansea, 11a 1511
Phoebe HOPKINS on page but 1 male spouse missing.
Possibly David Jones then :-\
Thanks rosie99. I'll have to look into it but there are a lot of Phoebe Jones'!