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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 31 May 17 16:17 BST (UK)
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Isabella Nesbit, born c 1852, I have the following info for her:
1852 Q1 Birth Registration Glendale 10b 288, MMN Douglas
1861 Census Cornhill, RG9, Piece 3889, Folio 95,Page 15
1871Census Norham West Mains, RG10, Piece:5186, Folio 61, Page 32
1881Census Warenton, RG11, Piece 5126, Folio 51, Page 12
1888 Marriage Registration (to Thomas Mavin) Q1 1888 Belford, 10b 458
1891 Census Spindleston, RG12, Piece 4266, Folio 137, Page 26
1901 Census Kyloe, RG13, Piece 4847, Folio 15, Page 4.
1911 Census Waren Mills, Belford,
1926 Death Registration Q1 1926 Belford 10b 568
All of the above check out and are consistent with being born 1852, Ford, parents (from the earlier census returns and the 1901 where she is listed with her married name as visiting her parents) were Thomas Nesbit and his wife Ann.
There are 7 children listed in the house in 1871 and I can find 5 out of 7 with MMN of Douglas in the GRO search - of the other two one is definitely not included, not even by searching the GRO vol and page numbers so another report gone in.
Isabella is the oldest recorded child on the census returns, though there may have been others prior to that who maybe did not survive
I can find her father as a single man in Ford in 1851
What I have utterly failed to do is find a marriage for Isabella’s parents Thomas Nesbit (born Ford c1830) and Ann Douglas (born Berwick/Tweedmouth c 1826). I’ve checked the GRO index, Scotlands People, Free Reg, Family Search. If anyone has any idea where else I could look or can see a record I may have missed, I’d be grateful.
Boo
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Have you considered the possibility that it was a second marriage for her mother? If so, she would appear as Douglas on the children's birth certificates but would have married Thomas under a different name. On the other hand they may never have married!
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I can find her father as a single man in Ford in 1851
The only Thomas Nesbitt I can see in Ford 1851 is staying with his brother John. That Thomas is married but no wife present
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I can find her father as a single man in Ford in 1851
The only Thomas Nesbitt I can see in Ford 1851 is staying with his brother John. That Thomas is married but no wife present
and I have looked and looked at that image (prior to posting) and just didn't see the obvious!
Thank you, sometimes I look so hard I stop 'seeing' ! :-)
I'll go play with more marriage dates and see what I can come up with.
Boo
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Hi
Have you considered an Irregular Marriage as they lived so far North it is possible they could have married Coldstream or Lamberton Toll just over the England /Scottish border- I will check it out in my book and get back to you
Barbara
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Presume this is Ann in 1841 - Norham, Berwick on Tweed. all b in county
Robert Douglass 45 - coal miner
Elizabeth Douglass 40
Ann Douglass 15 - ag lab
Isabella Douglass 13
Grace Douglass 8
Mary Douglass 6
Hannah Douglass 1 Mo
HO107, 319, 6, 8
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Later censuses however suggest Robert b Scotland and Elizabeth "Pittal"/Tweedmouth
makes me wonder about this on 1851in Duddo. they have put her wrong surname down
Thomas Carston 74
Cathrin Carston 75
John Stevinson 23
Cathrin Stevinson 21
Jane Stevinson 2
Ann Douglas 25 - b Spittal. Ag servant, married
HO107/2421/751 p 6
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Hi Boo
There are a couple of Thomas Nesbit who married at Lamberton 8 August 1852 to Margaret and Thomas Nesbit to Isabella Nesbit of Felkington 06 March 1852 - Details will have been recorded in Berwick Advertiser nearest date after the marriage which is the only records kept of these marriages No marriages recorded for Ann Douglas
Barbara
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Alternatively there's an Ann Nesbit, single aged 23 b Norham a servant in the Bone household in Twizel
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Thank you all for the replies and suggestions - I'll follow all of them up.
I think I am going to have to go back to basics and buy a birth cert for Isabella to see what it says about her Mam. I don't buy many for twiglets but think its my only option to be sure about who I am looking for. It may turn out (as was suggested) that Ann was a widow when she married Thomas, or even that, though she was known as Ann on all the census returns, her 'official' forename could have been different. All things are possible :-)
The help you have all given (and the time expended in helping) is much appreciated.
Boo
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Can you list siblings in order of birth please between 1861 & 1871 census' as this could be a clue to parentage alone before you commit to a cert?
Annie
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Can you list siblings in order of birth please between 1861 & 1871 census' as this could be a clue to parentage alone before you commit to a cert?
Annie
1861 census children:
Isabella, 9, born Ford
James 6, born Ford
Robert, 3, born Tweedmouth
Ann, 1, born Cornhill
1871 census, children:
Isabella, 19,born Ford
James, 16, born Ford
Robert, 13, born Tweedmouth
Ann, 11, born Cornhill
Elizabeth, 8, born Berwick upon Tweed
Thomas, 6, born Cornhill
Margaret, 3, born Norham
I have looked at the GRO index that shows MMN, I can find likely registrations for 5 of the children listed with a MMN of Douglas.
Boo
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1861 census children:
Isabella, 9, born Ford
James 6, born Ford
Robert, 3, born Tweedmouth
Ann, 1, born Cornhill
1871 census, children:
Isabella, 19,born Ford
James, 16, born Ford
Robert, 13, born Tweedmouth
Ann, 11, born Cornhill
Elizabeth, 8, born Berwick upon Tweed
Thomas, 6, born Cornhill
Margaret, 3, born Norham
I have looked at the GRO index that shows MMN, I can find likely registrations for 5 of the children listed with a MMN of Douglas.
As a Scot we have a traditional naming pattern (not always followed) but the same also applied in other countries such as Ireland & England again not always.
The above would suggest....
Isabella named after maternal g/mother
James (paternal g/father)
Robert (maternal g/father)
Ann (paternal g/mother)
Depending on other (older) siblings of the parents naming their kids sometimes the pattern was reversed so that the siblings didn't all have their 1st child named after the g/parent on whichever side but something to consider whilst making your decision.
Annie
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In 1881 census, Thomas says he's born Ford Mills. So I think the 1851 census at Ford Mills is correct. Brother John says he's born Alwinton, further down the page is a James Nesbit also born Alwinton.
This is likely to be them in 1841, transcribed as Nistit on you know what.
Ford Mills, Ford, Northumberland,
Ann Nesbit, 50, Y, Independant,
Ann ", 20, Y, Dress Maker,
John ", 20, Y, Blacksmith,
Margaret ", 20, Y, Dress Maker,
George ", 15, Y, ? Man,
James ", 15, Y, Blacksmith,
Thomas ", 11, Y.
HO107/833/16/5/2
There is a burial of a James Nesbit of Ford Mills, age 56, 10 August 1839 at Ford St. Michael.
Hope this link works, needs checking out, but can't see anything obvious to contradict it.
http://www.sfu.ca/~jcnesbit/gen/NesbitFordForge/
Alan.
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A bit of circumstancial evidence for Ann being daughter of Robert and Elizabeth Douglas.
In 1861 the Nesbits are at New Heaton Farm in Cornhill where Thomas is an Ag Lab. The Farmer on the previous page is James Black, 68, b. Ford. This appears to be Thomas Nesbits uncle, son of John Black.
James Black is farming the same farm in 1851, along with his son James Black Jnr., also born Ford, 1826.
In 1861, James Black Jnr is a Farmer at Norham Mains. In his household is a Cook/Domestic Servant, Grace Douglas, 23., b. Tweedmouth. This appears to be the sister of Ann Douglas, daughter of Robert and Elizabeth. Grace is 18 in 1851, so age is a few years out, but by 1871 she is 32 so shaved a bit more off.
In 1871 James Black Jnr is Farmer at the same Farm at Norham Mains, on the next page working as an Ag Lab is Thomas Nesbit, so now working for his cousin.
Alan.
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Thank you Alan. The living have been requiring my attention for a couple of days, but will follow up on your info next week. I'll also see about ordering that birth cert to see what it says.
Boo