RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: scatchardfamily on Sunday 28 May 17 22:48 BST (UK)
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I know one of my ancestors lived at 'Middle Ing' or Middleing' near Hatfield Chase. But I cannot find this location. Can anyone help me pinpoint it?
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Read about (Google) ' The Lings ' Hatfield chase
Battle of Hatfield Chase; Cuckney, Nottinghamshire. ... the battle had taken place at The Lings near Hatfield where he claimed a .
Lings lane
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No, these are different locations. There are other Ings but it would seems that this one is not on modern maps.
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When did your ancestors live there?
What document does this place name appear on?
This appears to be the location of The Lings that dob was referring to:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=14.569460935009545&lat=53.5732&lon=-1.0022&layers=161&right=BingHyb
I have had a good look around but can't see a place called Middleing (without knowing the date your ancestor lived there which may make a difference to place names). How are you so sure that the Lings is not the right place?
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Some Ings here :
http://placenames.org.uk/browse/minor/epns-deep-30-b-subparish-000022/12012
If just a very local field name, have you worked on the enumerator's route - or is it pre-census?
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A mention here:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k69/
also
(on page 40)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k6a/
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Good finds Pat. From those descriptions do you have any idea as to the location of MiddleIng?
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Not yet any nearer finding exact location, but showed that it existed as such.
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I'll be interested to get some dates from the OP when s/he returns. Not sure if it will help, but maybe some contemporary maps may show the place - it obviously existed. :)
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This shows Low Ings:
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102345109#zoom=5&lat=8751&lon=1758&layers=BT
Added:
and more here:
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102345106#zoom=4&lat=3663&lon=7414&layers=BT
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Excellent Pat. This was really bugging me so I'm glad you have found at least a couple of Ings. :) Fields they most definitely seem to be. :)
I'm miffed that I didn't find Low Ings as I had a reasonable scour of the area around Thorne .... :-\
Added: I've located a few more Ings (in the area west of Thorne), but no Middle Ing as yet.
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For starters
To establish exactly where Hatfield chase was/is.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/12855
On link map below you'll see Thorne and Stantoft, using the slidebar or mousewheel zoom in
You'll see Hatfield at 7. oclock in relation to Thorne.
When you have found Hatfield- note the horizontal black line above Hatfield
Follow the black horzontal line to the right and you'll see exactly where Hatfield chase was/is.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/?layer=europe&xMin=3281873.89005&yMin=3001337.25764&xMax=3318873.89005&yMax=3038337.25764
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https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pZkwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA12&dq=middle+ing+hatfield+chase&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=middle%20ing%20hatfield%20chase&f=false
Midlings, or Middle Ing, on the Don, was a large Hall erected by Sir Matthew Von Valkenburgh (see link above to read more)
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A-EHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=middle+ing+hatfield+chase&source=bl&ots=fsxWhHr1lA&sig=pR4b-95qFrZr6U44WqQZ8Df0yfk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin_L_xlJvUAhWHK8AKHWTBBg8Q6AEITjAG#v=onepage&q=middle%20ing%20hatfield%20chase&f=false
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Search (control f) for Middle Ing
https://archive.org/stream/diaryofabrahamde00delarich/diaryofabrahamde00delarich_djvu.txt
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Search (control f) for Middle Ing
https://archive.org/stream/diaryofabrahamde00delarich/diaryofabrahamde00delarich_djvu.txt
added
pages 284 to 286
https://archive.org/stream/diaryofabrahamde00delarich#page/286/mode/2up/search/middle+ing
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'Middle Ings, North Toft and Heynes', with map
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5146061
It would seem (Then marsh country wetlands bog with semi defined water course) the old meandering river course of the River Don spit near Thorne into two forks, one fork going to join the river Aire between villages Rawcliffe and Airmyn, the other fork heading East to join the river Tren, across Hatfield Chase (wetlands) North of the todays canal from Thorne to the river Tent
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Hi, just coming in on this :) .
The book "Thorne Mere & The Old River Don" by Martin Tylor has a little snippet, Martin used among others, the historical sources of John Leland (1506 - 1552) who gives a brief description of his visit to Thorne and his boat journey from Thorne to Sandtoft, crossing Thorne Mere on his way.
The Middle Ings / Middlings is the area along the centre of which runs along the A18 (Scunthorpe Road to a local like me ;) ) in the area of what is now the "Black Bull" public house.
Frank.
Added, I have not read all of the thread yet, apologies if I have duplicated anything.
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I know one of my ancestors lived at 'Middle Ing' or Middleing' near Hatfield Chase. But I cannot find this location. Can anyone help me pinpoint it?
Do you know his/her occupation by any chance? :)
Frank.
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The Black Bull Inn is on the first map link that I posted, to the South East of Thorne.
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The Black Bull Inn is on the first map link that I posted, to the South East of Thorne.
My apologies, I missed that :-[
Frank.
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Use Black Bull as ref tag point both maps
Course of old river Don - We know Middle Ing Hall was by the river Don
On the old map link the old course of the track of the river Don - Start at Tudworth farm to Levels Farm then a gap, the river Don course goes South past some buildings ? by a Well & Pump
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102345109
On google sat map you can see the course of the old River Don by Brier Hill farm
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Black+Bull+Inn/@53.5847242,-0.9266228,1845m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48791bc6ec2c6397:0x5dfa551313fb05c5!8m2!3d53.5873721!4d-0.9181912
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I know one of my ancestors lived at 'Middle Ing' or Middleing' near Hatfield Chase. But I cannot find this location. Can anyone help me pinpoint it?
Do you know his/her occupation by any chance? :)
Frank.
OK, well my ancestor was Matthew Van Valkenburgh, already referred to in this thread. He was connected with the draining project.
Does someone have the means to overlay the old map with the new? I think there's a website somewhere where you do this kind of thing, but I don't know what it is.
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I know one of my ancestors lived at 'Middle Ing' or Middleing' near Hatfield Chase. But I cannot find this location. Can anyone help me pinpoint it?
Do you know his/her occupation by any chance? :)
Frank.
OK, well my ancestor was Matthew Van Valkenburgh, already referred to in this thread. He was connected with the draining project.
Does someone have the means to overlay the old map with the new? I think there's a website somewhere where you do this kind of thing, but I don't know what it is.
Course of old river Don - We know Middle Ing Hall was by the old river Don course
(Click on blue text under the map image)
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'Middle Ings, North Toft and Heynes', with map
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5146061
It would seem (Then marsh country wetlands bog with semi defined water course) the old meandering river course of the River Don spit near Thorne into two forks, one fork going to join the river Aire between villages Rawcliffe and Airmyn, the other fork heading East to join the river Tren, across Hatfield Chase (wetlands) North of the todays canal from Thorne to the river Tent
This is a great find. Thanks.
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This shows Low Ings:
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102345109#zoom=5&lat=8751&lon=1758&layers=BT
Added:
and more here:
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102345106#zoom=4&lat=3663&lon=7414&layers=BT
Is it not strange that Middle Ings is not shown, as the other Ings are, on old maps?
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Hi, just coming in on this :) .
The book "Thorne Mere & The Old River Don" by Martin Tylor has a little snippet, Martin used among others, the historical sources of John Leland (1506 - 1552) who gives a brief description of his visit to Thorne and his boat journey from Thorne to Sandtoft, crossing Thorne Mere on his way.
The Middle Ings / Middlings is the area along the centre of which runs along the A18 (Scunthorpe Road to a local like me ;) ) in the area of what is now the "Black Bull" public house.
Frank.
Added, I have not read all of the thread yet, apologies if I have duplicated anything.
Many thanks for this. Do you have a copy of this book / PDF online? Where can I get it?
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So, does anyone think we have a chance of finding the location where Matthew Van Valkenburgh's clearly sizeable house was? Presumably, on the site of another building now?
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At a guess only
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Overlay map:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=53.6115&lon=-0.9602&layers=6&b=1
You can adjust the opacity using the slider at the bottom of the box on the left.
Dob's location suggestion:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=53.5871&lon=-0.9430&layers=6&b=1
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So, does anyone think we have a chance of finding the location where Matthew Van Valkenburgh's clearly sizeable house was? Presumably, on the site of another building now?
Apologies if I have missed something (as I only had a quick glance at Dob's links about the Van Valkenburghs and Middle Ing) but am I right in thinking you are looking for a house lived in by the family circa 1600/1700s?
Some old maps may show "site of" a dwelling of importance if it no longer exists. :-\
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Hi, just coming in on this :) .
The book "Thorne Mere & The Old River Don" by Martin Tylor has a little snippet, Martin used among others, the historical sources of John Leland (1506 - 1552) who gives a brief description of his visit to Thorne and his boat journey from Thorne to Sandtoft, crossing Thorne Mere on his way.
The Middle Ings / Middlings is the area along the centre of which runs along the A18 (Scunthorpe Road to a local like me ;) ) in the area of what is now the "Black Bull" public house.
Frank.
Added, I have not read all of the thread yet, apologies if I have duplicated anything.
Many thanks for this. Do you have a copy of this book / PDF online? Where can I get it?
You can order the book
http://www.sessionsbooks.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=352
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Hi, just coming in on this :) .
The book "Thorne Mere & The Old River Don" by Martin Tylor has a little snippet, Martin used among others, the historical sources of John Leland (1506 - 1552) who gives a brief description of his visit to Thorne and his boat journey from Thorne to Sandtoft, crossing Thorne Mere on his way.
The Middle Ings / Middlings is the area along the centre of which runs along the A18 (Scunthorpe Road to a local like me ;) ) in the area of what is now the "Black Bull" public house.
Frank.
Added, I have not read all of the thread yet, apologies if I have duplicated anything.
Many thanks for this. Do you have a copy of this book / PDF online? Where can I get it?
Hi, I have a copy but as yet apart from the the mention in the opening page I have not found much, I will look at the maps which are in the book to see if anything is shown.
Frank.
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..............................................................OK, well my ancestor was Matthew Van Valkenburgh, already referred to in this thread. He was connected with the draining project...........................................
Have you looked at a copy of Josias Aerlebout's map from 1639 (a google search may well bring it up), it shows the names of the participants in Vermuyden's drainage project and each participant has a letter, A,B,C etc to the side of there name, the corresponding letter is then shown on different areas of land allocated to them, that may help :-\
Frank.
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Back again, here's a bit from the manuscript of George Stovin..............................
"Sr Matthew Vanvalkenburgh also built a good house upon the banks of the Don,
in this Level, which was lately the estate of Sr John Boynton, then of
Boynton-Boynton, esq., who left it to two daughters."
A possible aid in finding the whereabouts may well be to do a bit of digging on Sir John Boynton.
Frank.
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Hi :) back again.
One of my prized possesions is an 1870 edition of "The Diary of Abraham De La Pryme" the Yorkshire antiquary and I have spent most of the afternoon trawling through it.
Abraham's father was Charles De La Pryme who came over to England in 1628 and died leaving two sons, in the diary there is a mention of one named Mathias.
In April 1670 Mathias married Sarah Smaque, the daughter of Peter Smaque, a rich Frenchman who had to flee Paris because of his faith, (interestingly there is still today a "Smaque Farm" on the A18 Scunthorpe road, a couple of miles past the Black Bull public house), the book then goes on to say:
"In 1680 he removed to Crowtrees Hall a large house in the levels built by Mynheer van Valkenbroch, one of the original drainers................"
Now off to check maps.
Frank.
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http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=53.5867&lon=-0.9191&layers=171&right=BingHyb
Follow the road "Crow Tree Bank" down the side of the Black Bull public house and there is a "Crow Tree Farm", it may well have been somewhere in this vicinity.
The 1850 OS shows this area as being between high level bank and low level bank where the old river Don ran,it also names the area as "Crowtree"
Frank.
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I can't get my book in the scanner so I have taken a photograph, courtesy of and with full acknowledgement to Martin Taylor and the book "Thorne Mere and the old river Don".
Frank.................... Time for bed.
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Hi, just to update the thread for the OP I went for a drive out to the Black Bull Inn and down Crow Tree Bank road which runs along the side of the pub, about a mile down the road there is a large farm named "Crow Tree Hall" ...........................................
Just a possibility it is where the original "Crowtree's Hall" was situated which was owned by Mynheer van Valkenbroch.
Frank.
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This thread came up in a search whilst looking for something else - there are a couple of maps at Kew that show Veruyden's drained areas from 1633 (actually pre-dates the Aerlebout map by 6 years). These maps indicate where houses were built on the levels and I keep meaning to do some more work on them. As you say Abraham' De La Prymes House was where Valkenburgh built his house. I attach an extract from one of the maps showing the levels. Note North is to the left of the map. The Valkenbugh house can be seen just to the right and below the (2) in the middle.