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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Possum26 on Thursday 25 May 17 13:56 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me I'm going nuts trying to find the parents of
John ROGAN b 1784 Liverpool? and Susannah Farning I don't have a birth date for her
but she did marry a John Brookshaw in Manchester [I think] I can find where they died [AUSTRALIA] but i cannot find anywhere their parents which they must have had a least one John died in 1830 and Susannah in 1853 they married in Sydney in 1812 [they were convicts] any help greatly received
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cannot find anywhere their parents which they must have had a least one
I would say definitely two each.
Just to clarify Susannah was first married to John Rogan then married John Brookshaw?
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Do you have all available convict records for both? Sometimes parents are named in some records depending on age of convict. The records should at least hold clues as to their places of origin or where they committed their crimes.
Added: Milliepede, the way I read it is that "Farning" is Susannah's maiden name. She (may have) married John Brookshaw in Manchester, she was then transported to Australia where she married John Rogan in 1812. :-\ I don't know if I have that right though.
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There is a John Rogan arriving in 1806 on the Fortune And Alexander
There is a Susannah Brookshaw arriving in 1812 on the Indefatigable, Minstral
Presumably you already have these? I don't have a World Subscription to FindMyPast so am unable to check the details.
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Thanks Ruskie I think you have it the right way round!
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For those trying to help;
MARRIAGE;
Susanna FARNING to John BROOKSHAW
30 April 1810, Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
1828 Castle Hill Census has Susannah Rogan as age 48 (birth c 1780), John as age 45 (1783)
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According to the criminal registers, Susannah was sentenced to death for larcency. They must have changed their minds? :)
There seem to be many mentions of her in various criminal/convict documents. I am assuming that you already have all of this Possum?
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thankyou everyone yes i do have some of the records but there are no parents this is the only information i have on both of them
JOHN ROGAN was born in about 1782 at Liverpool, Lancashire, England. He was tried at the Liverpool Epiphany Sessions and transported for seven years to NSW. He sailed in the ‘Fortune’ on 21 January 1805 and arrived at Sydney on 12 July 1805.
SUSANNAH FARNING (or Farnon) was born in about the year 1780 either in Liverpool or in Manchester, Lancashire. She married John Brookshaw on Monday, 30th April 1810 Manchester, Lancashire.
Barely four months after her marriage she was in trouble with the law. At Susannah's trial, John Brookshaw was described as "late of Liverpool". She was found guilty and sentenced to be hanged but was later reprieved on condition she was transported for seven years to New South Wales. She was charged with stealing a sum of money and goods from Jane Coleburn, tried at Liverpool Court and was sentenced to transportation to the colony of New South Wales for seven years. She would then have been sent either to Newgate or to one of the hulks on the Thames. She sailed on the ’Minstrel’ on 4 June 1812 and arrived at Sydney on 25 October 1812.
this is why i am asking how do i find their parents they must have been dead when they werer both tried and yes i do agree its take two but i thought maybe illagement??? just guesswork on my part
any ideas thankyou for all the help
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Possum, have you viewed the parish register of the Brookshaw Farning marriage? Any clues in the witnesses names?
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Thinking about your mention of Farnon rather than Farning .... I looked up the 1841 and 1851 English census and there are no people with the surname Farning (except one in the 1851 but the original image is not Farning). It seems that you will need to broaden the search to include alternative surnames. My first thought was, should this be Fanning? :-\
What is Susannah's surname when she marries John Brookshaw? When she marries John Rogan is her maiden name given?
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From a scan of the marriage entry on ancestry
John Rogan widower occupation carpenter married Susan Brookshaw spinster (she fibbed)
witnesses were Edward Carney and Rebecca Carney
all made their marks.
So John has another wife somewhere.
Others researching in Australia think John Rogan was Irish.
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That's interesting amondg.
I suspected an Irish connection too, though just a "hunch" with no proof of this as yet. I also wondered if Rogan might = Regan. Another Irish surname, though Rogan does appear as a surname in the censuses. The Liverpool / Lancashire origins also made me wonder if their families came from Ireland.
:)
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the only witness to the marriage of John Brookshaw [Tailor] and Susanna Farning [its def. Farning] was Robt McGile
John Rogan being Irish is news to me goes to show I could be looking in the wrong place
Brookshaw marriage license says Susanna was from Manchester but could not r or w
I just noticed something 4 months after her marriage to John he was described as 'late of Liverpool' had he died within those 4 months never saw that before
thankyou for all the imput interested to find others who are tracing this man
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What document described John as "late of Liverpool"? Was it in relation to her criminal trial? I think that this would mean that he used to live in Liverpool rather than being deceased.
Re: the surname "Farning", I am wondering if this is a mistranscription or error in interpretation of the surname as spoken by Susannah. Perhaps she had an accent?
Can you tell us the exact wording for Brookshaw Farning marriage? Earlier you said an alternative surname was Farnon - on what document did Farnon appear?
It is odd that there are no people with the surname Farning in the 1841 and 1851 census. (I have not checked bmds or other censuses).
Added: My "Irish" theory was just an passing thought based on the surnames. I don't know the reasons behind those amondg mentions for believing this, but it would be good to find out. :)
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Yes, yes you sound correct as in late of Liverpool not death its in the criminal records
I too was wondering if the surname was miss spelt due to an accent
i have tired to attach the brookshaw mariage cert for you
Farnon was in a letter I have about the Fuller family they mentioned the trials of both of them
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Thanks for that certificate Possum.
Gee, that surname is not clear at all is it? :-\ Farning/Farnon - sound similar so easy to understand how variations crept in.
I'm not sure what to suggest which could help in the search .... There are no parents named on John and Susanna's death certificates I suppose?
I am wondering if this thread may be better moved to the Lancashire board in the hope that some experts might know where to look for some possible births ..... :-\
Added: do you know if the banns have survived?
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Lancashire Banns and Marriages 1754 - 1936 record the marriage on April 30th 1810.
The index records Susanna's surname as Farney, but the original clearly says Farnay.
I can't see the banns though, but someone may be able to locate them if they survive.
There are quite a few Farneys on the 1841 census, so it is a "proper" surname.
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thankyou so much for all y our help Ruskie how do i move it to the other board you mentioned no parents on death certs im afraid :(
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thankyou so much for all y our help Ruskie how do i move it to the other board you mentioned no parents on death certs im afraid :(
"Report to moderator" is on the bottom right of each text box - just click on that. Let me know if you can't find it and I will "report" it. :)
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just reported and ask it to be move thankyou Ruskie
Topic moved.