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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: craftyannie on Monday 15 May 17 12:11 BST (UK)
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would be grateful for any help in finding Alice's mother.
Alice married in 1912 in Benwell, from 10 Bentinck street, and her father is shown as Thomas Monaghan, Labourer. both witnesses...HOBSON... were from her husband's side.
A birth certificate for Alice Mary Monaghan for 5th Jan. 1888 of 21 Brougham Place, Newcastle,
shows the father as Thomas, occ.Labourer, but the mother is shown as Isabella Duggan.
Found a Thomas and Alice Monaghan on 1911 Census at 54 Noble Street, Elswick, with sons, thomas, James & Charles.
Found a marriage entry for a Thomas Monaghan/Alice Duggan for the Sept qtr 1883 but couldn't seem to find any marriage of a Thomas to an Isabella Duggan?
have also had difficulty tracing the family on 1881/1891/1901 have tried different spellings of surname.
Would be grateful for any help.
thanks.
Annie.
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Relate the 1911 in full and it will make searching easier
does the GRO index confirm that the 1911 kids have the same MMN as the 1888 Alice?
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A birth certificate for Alice Mary Monaghan for 5th Jan. 1888 of 21 Brougham Place, Newcastle,
shows the father as Thomas, occ.Labourer, but the mother is shown as Isabella Duggan.
Found a Thomas and Alice Monaghan on 1911 Census at 54 Noble Street, Elswick, with sons, thomas, James & Charles.
They appear to be at 21 Brougham Place in 1901. They are indexed as Maughan.
(RG 13 / 4769 / 168 / 39)
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They are also at 21 Brougham Place in 1891. RG 12 / 4195 / 120 / 59.
This time their name is Manogan.
In both 1891 and 1901 mother's name is Alice.
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1901 Thomas with wife Alice also daughter Alice is entered as Maughan
Thomas 45
Alice 43
Patrick 18
Thomas 14
Alice 15
James 10
Charles 6
RG13/4769 f168 p39
Sorry Jen, I did not notice both of your posts ::) ;D
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thank you very much Pauline/JenB/Rosie
will follow all info up :)
Annie. ;D
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A birth certificate for Alice Mary Monaghan for 5th Jan. 1888 of 21 Brougham Place, Newcastle,
shows the father as Thomas, occ.Labourer, but the mother is shown as Isabella Duggan.
Just out of interest, who was the informant who registered the birth?
Boo
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HI Boo the informant was the mother , "Isabella", apparently...
I DUGGAN...Mother...of 21 Brougham Place, Newcastle.
Annie
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Is isabella Duggan the mother of Alice monaghans ?
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Is isabella Duggan the mother of Alice monaghans ?
Which is why I asked.
Many errors were made on registrations, often depending on how overawed the informant was when faced with questions from someone 'in authority'
If the informant, having given details of the child, birth date and address, name of father, mother's maiden name was asked and who are you? she may have said 'mother' BUT she MAY have been the mother of the lady who had just given birth, rather than the mother of the child being registered..
Accents/ misinterpreted questions/ illiteracy (through lack of opportunity rather than ability) etc etc contributed to many errors on registrations.
I searched for a very long time for a registration of Michael McGarrighal/McGargle/Macgarrigle/ cobble together any combination of letters that may equate to McGarrighal, in Newcastle 1879. He was one of 11 and I had the other 10 but this one eluded me.
This being prior to council budget cuts and the Registrar still had the time and enough staff to take time to answer, I emailed the registrar in desperation.
I explained my theory that, as this man had probably 'wet the baby's head' prior to going to register the birth and he likely had a strong Irish accent, the Registrar may have written down his best guess for a surname - could the registrar help me find a registration? I gave the father's name, occupation, mother's first name and maiden name and the date of baptism I had from the church records (RC so likely to be very soon after birth but possibly prior to registration)
Bingo! He found it,bless him! The child had been registered with the surname McGallagher :-)
<have a drink or two, affect an Irish accent and put yourself in the place of a Registrar who is just getting used to a North Eastern accent and it all makes sense!>
Boo
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I agree with your theory in the main Boo, but as "Isabella Duggan" has signed the certificate herself...there being no X for her mark...its sort of thrown me a bit, so i'll suggest that I send for a copy of the marriage of Thomas and Alice Duggan , to see what info is on that, addresses etc which may help to solve the problem, as at the time, i couldn't find a marriage for Thomas to an Isabella Duggan Its very possible that it could turn out to be that Isabella is actually Alice Duggan's mother like you say. :-\
many thanks for your help. :)
Annie
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hi Pauline, as explained to Boo, Isabella is named on the birth cert as the mother/informant.
Annie :)
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The informant has the surname Duggan.
The mother of the newborn has the surname Monaghan.
So it looks even less like the informant was the newborn's mother
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Think I've confused myself with this Alice /Isabella thing ??? the certificate does say the mother is ISABELLA MONAGHAN formerly DUGGAN and the informant is Isabella Monaghan and not Duggan as i said previously, however, as all the census seem to imply that ALICE is the mother, I will pass it all over to my friend and see what she wants to do.
thanks Pauline.
regards Annie