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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: davpri on Friday 12 May 17 20:00 BST (UK)

Title: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Friday 12 May 17 20:00 BST (UK)
After requesting a marriage certificate with references obtained from Free BMD I received this reply - "Persons requested are on this page but not married to each other". Can anyone offer an explanation please?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 12 May 17 20:02 BST (UK)
FreeBMD show the people on the same page in the register but that doesn't mean they are married to each other. Can you give us more detail please?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 12 May 17 20:03 BST (UK)
After requesting a marriage certificate with references obtained from Free BMD

What were their names?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Friday 12 May 17 20:15 BST (UK)
After requesting a marriage certificate with references obtained from Free BMD

What were their names?
James Price and Elizabeth Jones - Marriages Sep 1850 Vol 1 Page 307
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: bevj on Friday 12 May 17 20:25 BST (UK)
There are eight names on that page;  do you definitely know that James Price married Elizabeth Jones?  He could have married one of the other three women named.

Bev
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Friday 12 May 17 20:29 BST (UK)
Have you got them on the 1851 census?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 12 May 17 20:30 BST (UK)
After requesting a marriage certificate with references obtained from Free BMD

What were their names?
James Price and Elizabeth Jones - Marriages Sep 1850 Vol 1 Page 307

Thanks for the extra info. hope this helps

James Price
Marriage date   04 Sep 1850
Marriage place   Marylebone
Father's first name(s)   James Price
Sarah Hickling
Spouse's father's    Henry Hickling
Residence   Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Record set   England Marriages 1538-1973

Elizabeth Jones
Marriage date   09 Sep 1850
Marriage place   Marylebone
father Phillip Jones
Henry Berry
Spouse's father's first name(s)   Richard Berry
Residence   Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Record set   England Marriages 1538-1973
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Friday 12 May 17 20:41 BST (UK)
Thank you. I now need time to digest your information which looks very interesting.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 12 May 17 20:43 BST (UK)
Thank you. I now need time to digest your information which looks very interesting.

If you need anything else please come back and let us know - we'll try and help if we can
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Friday 12 May 17 20:51 BST (UK)
There are eight names on that page;  do you definitely know that James Price married Elizabeth Jones?  He could have married one of the other three women named.
I have a birth certificate for a child born in 1848 with them as parents- obviously out of wedlock. Thank you. It needs a bit of thought.
Bev
After requesting a marriage certificate with references obtained from Free BMD

What were their names?
James Price and Elizabeth Jones - Marriages Sep 1850 Vol 1 Page 307

Thanks for the extra info. hope this helps

James Price
Marriage date   04 Sep 1850
Marriage place   Marylebone
Father's first name(s)   James Price
Sarah Hickling
Spouse's father's    Henry Hickling
Residence   Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Record set   England Marriages 1538-1973

Elizabeth Jones
Marriage date   09 Sep 1850
Marriage place   Marylebone
father Phillip Jones
Henry Berry
Spouse's father's first name(s)   Richard Berry
Residence   Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Record set   England Marriages 1538-1973
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 12 May 17 21:00 BST (UK)
I have a birth certificate for a child born in 1848 with them as parents- obviously out of wedlock. Thank you. It needs a bit of thought.

Are they together on the 1851 census with the child born 1848?

Do you want to give us the name of the child so we can take a look?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Friday 12 May 17 21:14 BST (UK)
To me its strange you have the names of both people but the two are wrong people on marriage entry.  Are they married a different year and just a coincidence two people of same name listed on 1850 entry you found.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: dawnsh on Friday 12 May 17 21:22 BST (UK)
For future reference, when you order marriage certs from the GRO for a marriage you can't find online and you only know the name of the bride or groom not both, you can apply using just the one name.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 12 May 17 21:25 BST (UK)
Was the child's birth registered in Marylebone?

Was his/her surname registered as Price or Jones in 1848?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: bevj on Friday 12 May 17 22:00 BST (UK)
What exactly does the birth certificate say?

Bev
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Saturday 13 May 17 20:46 BST (UK)
I have a birth certificate for a child born in 1848 with them as parents- obviously out of wedlock. Thank you. It needs a bit of thought.

Are they together on the 1851 census with the child born 1848?

Do you want to give us the name of the child so we can take a look?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Saturday 13 May 17 20:55 BST (UK)
Thank you for your interest. The child on the birth certificate is "John". The date of birth is 7.12.1848. I have been mislead because the mother is given as "Elizabeth Price formerly Jones". Obviously out of wedlock. If you have an entry from the 1851 census I would appreciate it. Once again thank you.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: bevj on Saturday 13 May 17 21:19 BST (UK)
Where was the birth registered?
I wonder why you say 'obviously illegitimate'? 
I think that the fact that she calls herself Price formerly Jones means that she is married and although it is a coincidence,  the 1850 marriage is not the right one since we know from the record that the Price and Jones on that page did not marry each other.  Price and Jones are common enough names.
Bev
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Saturday 13 May 17 22:12 BST (UK)
John Price OND 1848 St Mary Newington 4 378 (London)
William Price same reference

if davpri is looking in london area (eg previously mentioned Marylebone) the above entry fits John.

could look this information up with regards 1851 census to see if parents are James and Elizabeth?!?!
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 13 May 17 22:19 BST (UK)
John Price OND 1848 St Mary Newington 4 378 (London)
William Price same reference

Could have been twins. Looks like they died soon after birth
Deaths, Dec 1848 Newington vol 4 page 284
Price, John - age 0
Price, William - age 0
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Saturday 13 May 17 23:21 BST (UK)
Best to hear more from davpri eg birth certificate details what they have.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 14 May 17 10:44 BST (UK)
John Price OND 1848 St Mary Newington 4 378 (London)
William Price same reference

Could have been twins. Looks like they died soon after birth
Deaths, Dec 1848 Newington vol 4 page 284
Price, John - age 0
Price, William - age 0

I think you are correct about this John Price

GRO indexes now provide mother's maiden name and it's left blank when the child is illegitimate
John & William Price show a mmn

John PRICE mmn  JONES    
GRO Reference: 1848  D Quarter in ST MARY NEWINGTON  Volume 04  Page 378   

William PRICE mmnJONES     
GRO Reference: 1848  D Quarter in ST MARY NEWINGTON  Volume 04  Page 378

There's also their death entries same quarter & year for the two boys above showing age as 0

The child on the birth certificate is "John". The date of birth is 7.12.1848.

I have been mislead because the mother is given as "Elizabeth Price formerly Jones". Obviously out of wedlock.

If you have an entry from the 1851 census I would appreciate it

Sorry I haven't located John & Elizabeth Price on 1851 census  ???

What is the address given on the birth certificate?
What was father John's occupation?

davpri - some questions I have about your John Price you are looking for

Was he born c 1848?

Did he marry and to whom? If he did marry

Do you have his marriage certificate giving his age, occupation father's name and occupation etc.?

This might help us locate him for you - there are many persons named John Price


   
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Sunday 14 May 17 15:10 BST (UK)
Thank you. I see what you mean. The birth was registered in St. Mary Newington. 7.12.1848.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Sunday 14 May 17 15:24 BST (UK)
I think we need to start from the beginning on this one - can you tell us ALL the information on John's birth certificate that you have.

Is John your ancestor?

The John registered in St Mary Newington seems to have died not long after birth.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 14 May 17 15:33 BST (UK)
You had a similar post about a John Charles Price bn Newington a while back, is this the same person  :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=263618.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Sunday 14 May 17 15:38 BST (UK)
I think it must be. I have had several years lay off.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Sunday 14 May 17 15:41 BST (UK)
I think we need to start from the beginning on this one - can you tell us ALL the information on John's birth certificate that you have.

Is John your ancestor?

The John registered in St Mary Newington seems to have died not long after birth.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Sunday 14 May 17 15:52 BST (UK)
Birth certificate extract "Born 7.12.1848 at 9o'clock p.m.. 9 Poplar Row. Name John. Male. Father James Price. Mother Elizabeth Price formerly Jones. Occupation Carpenter. Signature James Price 9 Poplar Row Locksfield. Registerd 16.12.1848. Registrar William Seagram.
The John Charles Price mentioned in the marriage certificate is my great grandfather.
Once again thank you.
I will now have to go off lione for some time.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 14 May 17 15:59 BST (UK)

The John Charles Price mentioned in the marriage certificate is my great grandfather.


Maybe it would be better trying to solve the other post re John Charles Price  :-\
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=263618.
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: dawnsh on Sunday 14 May 17 16:05 BST (UK)
The other topic was started in 2007, 2 years before the LMA collection went online.

Have we tried looking for baptisms?
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 14 May 17 16:19 BST (UK)
Is this John in 1871  1881
John C Price 31   occ Baker   born Newington
Clare E Price 29 bn Norfolk   
Alice   10 bn Putney
Frederick 8 bn Putney   
Clare E 6 bn Battersea   

Marriage to Clara Brighton
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNL7-R5Y
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 14 May 17 17:16 BST (UK)
Is this John in 1871  1881
John C Price 31   occ Baker   born Newington
Clare E Price 29 bn Norfolk   
Alice   10 bn Putney
Frederick 8 bn Putney   
Clare E 6 bn Battersea   

Marriage to Clara Brighton
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNL7-R5Y

Here's the above John on 1891 & 1871 censuses

 1891 RG12; Piece: 1032; Folio: 109; Page: 43
20 Mercury Road Ealing
John Price 41 Newington Surrey occ Baker
Clara 39 Saxlingham Norfolk
Alice 20 Putney occ dressmaker
Clara 16 Battersea

1871 RG10; Piece: 716; Folio: 12; Page: 18
Gardners Lane 1 Burlington Ter. Putney
John Price 21 Newington Surrey occ Baker
Ellen 20 Saxlingham Norfolk
Alice 1 month Putney

GRO indexes show mmn

Alice Louisa PRICE mmn BRIGHTON     
1871  J Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 588

Frederick Charles PRICE mmn BRIGHTON    
GRO Reference: 1873  M Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 675

Clara Ellen   PRICE mmn BRIGHTON    
GRO Reference: 1875  M Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 649

Clara Ellen Price Baptism 7 Jun 1878 Battersea, Surrey
Father: John Charles Price  Mother:   Clara Ellen
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

21 Oct 1899 St Mary Magdalene, Paddington
Clara Ellen Price age 24, St Paul's Brentford,
father John Charles Price occ Baker
William Augustus Palmer 26 sorter GPO f William Henry Palmer, Traveller
A G Henson & Emily Palmer are witnesses
Register Type:   Parish Register
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 14 May 17 18:03 BST (UK)
If the above John Price is the correct one on the censuses born c1850 Newington

St Saviours is in the registration district of Newington

Is it possible that this might be his birth entry from FreeBMD
although there's no middle name of Charles

John PRICE
Sep 1849 St Saviour vol 4 page 507

GRO Index shows this 1849 John PRICE mmn POWER

but I can’t find a suitable marriage for Price/Power on FreeBMD before 1849 to
check if possible father's name was John James Price  ???

only this one for Sep 1865 Bethnal Green, but wrong first name & occupation ???

Married 9th July 1865 St John’s Church Bethnal Green
James Price f/a occ is a Nailer or Waiter f Robert James Price cabinet maker
Sarah Power f/a f George Pearson Power, undertaker
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 14 May 17 20:17 BST (UK)
Sorry I'm struggling to find a John (Charles) Price born c 1849 Newington on 1851 / 1861 census
with father named John (James) Price occ Baker  and a baptism ???  ???

The 1871/1881/1891/1911 census entries found for John (C) Price gives his pob as Newington born c 1849/50

1911c John Price living in Brentford pob Newington c1850
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWW1-2XK

His death entry age 83 and his burial gives his middle name as Charles, unfortunaely no date of birth given on either ??? to confirm a birth entry

Jun 1932 Willesden  3a 303
Price John C age  83 (1849)

Dec 1902 Brentford 3a 72
Price Clara Ellen age 51

Burial of Clara Ellen Price and John Charles Price details from
England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers 1800 -2016

Burial Place Ealing Greater London
Cemetery Ealing & Old Brentford
Grave No.. 32 J, Cemetery section  – ground division E.
If purchased no of Entry in Register or purchased grave - 1884
name or person buried Clara Ellen Price, John Charles Price
age 51 & 83
date of interment Nov 26th 1902 & 3rd June 1932
amount of fees pd. Each interment - £2 13s 6d & £6
No & folio in register of burials – Interment No. 485 25G & 1811 91M




Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: durhamgirl73 on Sunday 14 May 17 20:26 BST (UK)
I would probably ignore the parents names - im not sure if they have the right birth certificate - if they ordered the certificate with the reference i found previously, that John may have died as a baby!!!

sorry please ignore my message - just seen that marriage shows father is John James Price  :-\

actually they still could have the wrong birth certificate - a coincidence the father is John Price

Can you find his dad in 1871 (year after sons marriage but doesnt say if deceased)
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Sunday 14 May 17 20:51 BST (UK)
Sorry I'm struggling to find a John (Charles) Price born c 1849 Newington on 1851 / 1861 census
with father named John (James) Price occ Baker  and a baptism ???  ???

The 1871/1881/1891/1911 census entries found for John (C) Price gives his pob as Newington born c 1849/50

1911c John Price living in Brentford pob Newington c1850
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWW1-2XK

His death entry age 83 and his burial gives his middle name as Charles, unfortunaely no date of birth given on either ??? to confirm a birth entry

Jun 1932 Willesden  3a 303
Price John C age  83 (1849)

Dec 1902 Brentford 3a 72
Price Clara Ellen age 51

Burial of Clara Ellen Price and John Charles Price details from
England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers 1800 -2016

Burial Place Ealing Greater London
Cemetery Ealing & Old Brentford
Grave No.. 32 J, Cemetery section  – ground division E.
If purchased no of Entry in Register or purchased grave - 1884
name or person buried Clara Ellen Price, John Charles Price
age 51 & 83
date of interment Nov 26th 1902 & 3rd June 1932
amount of fees pd. Each interment - £2 13s 6d & £6
No & folio in register of burials – Interment No. 485 25G & 1811 91M
Title: Re: GRO Records
Post by: davpri on Sunday 14 May 17 20:55 BST (UK)
That's a wealth of interesting information even without the elusive missing link.  Thank you everyone.