RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Rosalinda Jones on Thursday 11 May 17 21:34 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find information on my grandfather's WWII service but given his occupation we're hitting nothing but walls. I was hoping someone here might be able to point me in the direction of any kind of records, diaries, etc, that may shed light, although I fear the Official Secrets Act might be in play.
My grandfather was Robert Wren Cree, born 1920 in Glasgow, and he joined the Royal Signals before being seconded to mi6 Section VIII, working at/around Bletchley Park, Whaddon Hall, Hanslope Park and Tattenhoe camp. Section VIII later became the Diplomatic Wireless Service and he stayed there until he retired. Bob died in 1988.
We know he was involved with covert surveillance in Europe, working under Edgar Harrison, radio operator for Winston Churchill. At some point he took a ship to the Azores, and later made a mysterious comment that he travelled with a very heavy box that took two men to lift. He was told to throw it over the side if the ship was boarded. We presume it was some sort of radio equipment...?
We have his medals, which include the France and Germany Star, and, curiously, the Africa Star. We don't have a clue how he got these, although a recent anecdote has been uncovered that he once had to 'sit on his radio to keep the Gestapo from finding it when they raided his room'.
We've got all the books we can find on Bletchley Park and the wartime communications services, but we're no further forward. We've also requested his service records from the MoD, but given the above, we suspect it will be either heavily redacted or show only his short time in the Signals.
Grateful for anything at all that anyone can suggest!
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Welcome to Rootschat
Please see this link - although you have already applied for his service record
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651361.0
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Thanks carole! ;D I'll try some of those.
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Hi Rosalinda,
You may have more information by now but I've only just spotted your post.
Have you tried contacting Bletchley Park itself? They hold some information down there and may be able to help. If you haven't already done so you can contact them through their website.
I don't know if you have seen it but your grandfather is named on their website:
https://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/roll-of-honour/2144
Another way you might at least be able to find out about the type of work he was doing is to have a look at his unit's war diary. Some can be found on the national archives website but you might end up having to go to Kew and looking at the originals. I managed to get some information about one of my relatives that way.
Good luck,
Michael
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I am trying to find information on my grandfather's WWII service but given his occupation we're hitting nothing but walls. I was hoping someone here might be able to point me in the direction of any kind of records, diaries, etc, that may shed light, although I fear the Official Secrets Act might be in play.
My grandfather was Robert Wren Cree, born 1920 in Glasgow, and he joined the Royal Signals before being seconded to mi6 Section VIII, working at/around Bletchley Park, Whaddon Hall, Hanslope Park and Tattenhoe camp. Section VIII later became the Diplomatic Wireless Service and he stayed there until he retired. Bob died in 1988.
We know he was involved with covert surveillance in Europe, working under Edgar Harrison, radio operator for Winston Churchill. At some point he took a ship to the Azores, and later made a mysterious comment that he travelled with a very heavy box that took two men to lift. He was told to throw it over the side if the ship was boarded. We presume it was some sort of radio equipment...?
We have his medals, which include the France and Germany Star, and, curiously, the Africa Star. We don't have a clue how he got these, although a recent anecdote has been uncovered that he once had to 'sit on his radio to keep the Gestapo from finding it when they raided his room'.
We've got all the books we can find on Bletchley Park and the wartime communications services, but we're no further forward. We've also requested his service records from the MoD, but given the above, we suspect it will be either heavily redacted or show only his short time in the Signals.
Grateful for anything at all that anyone can suggest!
Hello, I can perhaps throw something into the mix here. I chanced upon your request when I did one of my occasional searches for information about my own father's wartime adventures.
My late father also worked at Whaddon. His wartime service records didn't tell us a great deal, but they did confirm that although he was apparently in the Royal Corps of Signals that was a 'cover' because he was really working within MI6. (They were all 'enrolled' because having lots of healthy looking blokes rushing around in civvies would be suspicious - which makes sense). Two things tell us that he was in MI6. The first one is that his service number starts with 2602 - a range reserved for that use. The second one is that all of his service records are emphatically annotated "S.E. - N.P.A.F." which means 'Special Enlistment - Not Paid from Army Funds" - so bureacracy was well and alive even in the depths of the war.
However the MI6 tag is, in this context, very bad news indeed. MI6 have a web site (which seems really odd to me, but no matter) and it's clear from it (and other contacts I have made) that they have an unbreakable policy to never release information about serving or former officers. Zero. End of the road.
The service record will likely tell you a bit about when and where he went, and sometimes the locations are good clues to what went on there. But, sadly I've been at this dead end for some years.
Bletchley do have some records and the people there are universally wonderful and helpful, but in the end they too can only do so much.
I wish you every good luck in your endeavor. One day perhaps they'll crack and release something even after 70 years, even with some redaction, so perhaps you'll have better luck than I did! If you do, let us know.
Good luck and all the best.
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I cannot add anything to your Grandfather’s outstanding war service but his brother Bill and his wife Jean were my parents’ closest friends and known to my brother and me as “Uncle Bill and Auntie Jean” who went regularly to visit your grandparents in Bletchley. In fact Robert gave my dad’s name as his referee. I would be very pleased to hear from you privately.
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Hi All
This is Rosalinda, under a new account as it was so long since I logged in I'd forgotten the old ones. ::)
Thanks so much to everyone who's responded (and that I don't think I thanked previously).
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@MissMcDougall
Thank you for your message, and what an odd coincidence that you messaged in the exact week I'd picked up this mystery again! And how wonderful that you knew Uncle Bill!
I'd be thrilled to speak to you privately, which I'll do as soon as the site lets me access PMs. I think as it's a new account I need to post a few times before it unlocks. ;)
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[quote ]
My grandfather was Robert Wren Cree, born 1920 in Glasgow, and he joined the Royal Signals before being seconded to mi6 Section VIII, working at/around Bletchley Park, Whaddon Hall, Hanslope Park and Tattenhoe camp. Section VIII later became the Diplomatic Wireless Service and he stayed there until he retired. Bob died in 1988.
We know he was involved with covert surveillance in Europe, working under Edgar Harrison, radio operator for Winston Churchill. At some point he took a ship to the Azores, and later made a mysterious comment that he travelled with a very heavy box that took two men to lift. He was told to throw it over the side if the ship was boarded. We presume it was some sort of radio equipment...?
We have his medals, which include the France and Germany Star, and, curiously, the Africa Star. We don't have a clue how he got these, although a recent anecdote has been uncovered that he once had to 'sit on his radio to keep the Gestapo from finding it when they raided his room'.
We've got all the books we can find on Bletchley Park and the wartime communications services, but we're no further forward. We've also requested his service records from the MoD, but given the above, we suspect it will be either heavily redacted or show only his short time in the Signals.
Grateful for anything at all that anyone can suggest!
[/quote]
Hello, I can perhaps throw something into the mix here. I chanced upon your request when I did one of my occasional searches for information about my own father's wartime adventures.
My late father also worked at Whaddon. His wartime service records didn't tell us a great deal, but they did confirm that although he was apparently in the Royal Corps of Signals that was a 'cover' because he was really working within MI6. (They were all 'enrolled' because having lots of healthy looking blokes rushing around in civvies would be suspicious - which makes sense). Two things tell us that he was in MI6. The first one is that his service number starts with 2602 - a range reserved for that use. The second one is that all of his service records are emphatically annotated "S.E. - N.P.A.F." which means 'Special Enlistment - Not Paid from Army Funds" - so bureacracy was well and alive even in the depths of the war.
However the MI6 tag is, in this context, very bad news indeed. MI6 have a web site (which seems really odd to me, but no matter) and it's clear from it (and other contacts I have made) that they have an unbreakable policy to never release information about serving or former officers. Zero. End of the road.
The service record will likely tell you a bit about when and where he went, and sometimes the locations are good clues to what went on there. But, sadly I've been at this dead end for some years.
Bletchley do have some records and the people there are universally wonderful and helpful, but in the end they too can only do so much.
I wish you every good luck in your endeavor. One day perhaps they'll crack and release something even after 70 years, even with some redaction, so perhaps you'll have better luck than I did! If you do, let us know.
Good luck and all the best.
[/quote]
I'm so sorry, I've only just seen this! I hope you're still around, if so, thank you very much for taking the time to respond. We're only a little further forward than we were when I originally posted, although a few new documents have come to light (including info on his BP rank - Sergeant Major) but otherwise still in the dark. As suspected, the service records didn't give much about his Intelligence work, labelling it all as Royal Signals business and skipping over anything on the Spook-spectrum.
I guess next step will be to see if BP have anything, but I doubt they will be able to shed much light, sadly.
there are various online social media groups now, however, with interests in PB and WWII intelligence, so my last hope is they may be able to provide me with leads or links somewhere. Here's hoping!
All the best
Rosalinda
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Hello once again. Purely on a whim I checked in again to see if you had any further information on your Grandpa’s war service. I really would love to chat with you about his family connections - I recognised the ‘Wren’ in his middle name. I have no idea how to go about organising a personal phone call or meeting but I do hope we can arrange it.
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Hi Rosalinda
Just another post in an attempt to get in touch with you. I gave up checking some time ago but will keep monitoring now that I have seen your reply.
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Hi Rosalinda
Just another post in an attempt to get in touch with you. I gave up checking some time ago but will keep monitoring now that I have seen your reply.
Hello! ;D Thanks so much for checking in, and I'm sorry it's taken so long to respond!
Frustratingly we've found nothing more recently about Granddad's war service, so we're still puzzling what that mysterious box on the boat was, or what his encounter with the Gestapo was about. ???
I'd love to speak privately about him, although sadly as he died when I was 10, I only really know him from other people's recollections and what I've dug up since. My mum would probably love to share memories of him and Bill though! Perhaps we could organise an email discussion, and later maybe a call if there's a lot to talk about? Let me know what you think. I'll have a chat with Mum about it tomorrow.
Thanks again SO much for getting in touch. These days we so rarely meet anyone who knew Grandad's side of the family. 8)
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Oh I would love to have a chat either by email or by phone - how do we go about fixing a private meeting?
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Why not just PM to RFJones and exchange information and data?
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I’m very new to this game and have no idea how to send a personal or private message so I will just have to wait till Rosalinda contacts me
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Click on her name in the left hand box. The page that comes up has a PM link on the left.
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Thank you!