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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: tbears52 on Monday 24 April 17 23:00 BST (UK)
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I am going around in circles trying to locate the parents of John, Robert and William Speers who all immigrated to Tasmania, Australia between roughly 1866 and 1879. Obituaries / death notices I have located on Trove (Australian website) for the boy’s passing states the parents to be Andrew and Mary Speers of Castledawson, Derry or Belfast, Ireland.
I have located two Andrew Speers passing away, one 20 June 1900 at Ballyknocker, Farmer with probate going to his son Andrew Speers who passed away 14 February 1920 at Ballyknocker. This probate went to Isabella Dawson, sister.
I have also located Census for 1901 and 1911 for Andrew (died 1920).
John and Robert married in Christ Church (Anglican), Cullenswood, Tasmania. John in 1869 to Catherine Scott and Robert in 1877 to Elizabeth Handley.
Working out from dates given in their Obituaries and Headstones, John was born about 1846 and said to be the second son born to Andrew and Mary Speers. Robert was born about 1854.
William was born about 1860 and passed away in 1893 age 33, he never married. In his Obituary it states he was the youngest son born to Andrew and Mary Speers of Castledawson, Derry, with the parents being of “advanced age”. I believe this family may be Presbyterian but this is not confirmed.
In some instances I have also located information under the surnames of Spiers, Speirs, Speres in records for Tasmania.
Has anyone else researched this Speers family please or have the ability of researching areas I am unable to gain access to from here? I have just about exhausted all that I can think of to search.
Cheers Judi
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Magherafelt was Civil Registration District
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"Andrew Speers passing away, one 20 June 1900 at Ballyknocker, Farmer with probate going to his son Andrew Speers who passed away 14 February 1920 at Ballyknocker. This probate went to Isabella Dawson, sister......."
Isabella
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10774/5929276.pdf
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Image
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Correct image..
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Mary
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05989/4703640.pdf
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Sorry about this but internet playing up and trying to grab what I can
PLUS there is no way to modify posts so ignore above one, this is Mary!!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05834/4652198.pdf
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jzj/ gets you all Speers that used Magherafelt Reg Office.
It's a pain in the face with Captcha and signing in all the time as it logs you out after a few minutes!!
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http://www.dbell.me.uk/family/media/Descendants%20of%20Joseph%20Shiels%20%20Moneymore.pdf
Ballynogher mentioned
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https://www.google.ie/search?q=Speers&sa=Google+Search&domains=torrens.org&sitesearch=genealogy.torrens.org&gws_rd=cr&ei=No3-WJrxCsuagAa07Zl4
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Oh my goodness, thank you so very much for your help. I had tried the Civil Records for the boy's birth but have never located these as registration did not start until after their births.
The passing information of the parents is absolutely wonderful. It is pointing toward this couple being the right people.
Am I right to assume this couple would have been in Derry their whole life or would you know during their lifetime they would have moved around into or from another County? Have you ever heard of this at all please?
I have ancestors who were with the Church of Ireland so they obviously moved around and my 3 x G Grandparents (Joseph was English and Margaret was born in Ireland) lived in Limerick but Joseph passed in Dublin and laid to rest in Mt Jerome Cemetery. Margaret in fact went to live in England and passed there. Children from this couple either became or married into families that were with the Church of Ireland. They are from my paternal lineage.
The Speers are part of my maternal lineage through William Speers and a liaison he had with a member of our family (Louisa) in 1891 that produced a child born to this couple. It was wanting to know more about the child that has taken me on a journey to locate anything regarding William which opened up the Speers family, well as much as I could find.
I am extremely grateful for your help, thank you is not enough.
Cheers
Judi
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A follow on from the wonderful help from Hallmark I have just located on Trove:
Mr. Robert Speers, of St. Marys, will celebrate his 80th birthday today. Mr. Speers was born in Londonderry, Ireland, on July 13, 1852, and arrived in Tasmania in 1873. He followed farming pursuits near St. Marys until six years ago, when he removed to the township. Mr. Speers married Miss Elizabeth Hardley in Christ Church, Cullenswood, on July 13, 1877, Rev. Evans being the officiating clergyman, and there was a family of fourteen -five daughters and nine sons. Two sons served in the Great War, and visited Ireland while on leave. Mrs. Speers died 18 years ago, and one son and three daughters are also deceased. The youngest daughter (Ivy) keeps house for her father. Mr. Speers still enjoys good health and has a good memory. His hobby is gardening. His only surviving sister is Mrs. James Dawson, Castledown, Ireland.
So it is a confirmation Isabella is definitely his sister who married James Dawson. Date of birth was given as 13 July 1852 and not 1854 as first thought.
Cheers
Judi
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Oh my goodness, thank you so very much for your help. I had tried the Civil Records for the boy's birth but have never located these as registration did not start until after their births.
The passing information of the parents is absolutely wonderful. It is pointing toward this couple being the right people.
Am I right to assume this couple would have been in Derry their whole life or would you know during their lifetime they would have moved around into or from another County? Have you ever heard of this at all please?
I have ancestors who were with the Church of Ireland so they obviously moved around and my 3 x G Grandparents (Joseph was English and Margaret was born in Ireland) lived in Limerick but Joseph passed in Dublin and laid to rest in Mt Jerome Cemetery. Margaret in fact went to live in England and passed there. Children from this couple either became or married into families that were with the Church of Ireland. They are from my paternal lineage.
The Speers are part of my maternal lineage through William Speers and a liaison he had with a member of our family (Louisa) in 1891 that produced a child born to this couple. It was wanting to know more about the child that has taken me on a journey to locate anything regarding William which opened up the Speers family, well as much as I could find.
I am extremely grateful for your help, thank you is not enough.
Cheers
Judi
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That's no problem, figuring out which Reg Office covered there is the important bit.
I gave you the link for all of them there BUT you would be better off doing them in 5 year batches and looking at all results, then next 5 years etc, you might get more siblings for Isabella etc...
I only looked at a few!!
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"Am I right to assume this couple would have been in Derry their whole life or would you know during their lifetime they would have moved around into or from another County? Have you ever heard of this at all please?......"
Assume nothing!! People did anything/everything.
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/1532841/
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Another Ballynocker one... no sign of Marriage Reg @ Magherafelt
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Nancy
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Not sure if this has been posted yet?
Samuel Speer, wife Rachel & family-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/1532837
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/613552
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There are 4 in the townland
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/
and may or may not be related.
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I have the Census for both 1901 and 1911 for Andrew Speers and James and Isabella Dawson. I am yet to locate Robert Kerr, nephew to Andrew Speers.
I also located the and saved the reference only for the moment as it not only mentions Andrew Speers but also members of the Dawson and Kerr family as well. This is just a work in progress.
Griffith's Valuation 1847-1864 Transcription
First name(s): Andrew
Last name: Spiers
Role: Occupier
Year: 1859
Printing date: 1859-03-02
Townland: Ballynocker
Civil Parish: Magherafelt
Barony: LOUGHINSHOLIN
Poor Law Union: MAGHERAFELT
County: Londonderry (Derry)
Lessor's first name(s): -
Lessor's last name: WORSHIPFUL COMPANY OF SALTERS
Occupier's first name(s): ANDREW
Occupier's last name: SPIERS
Act: 15&16
Record set: Griffith's Valuation 1847-1864
Category: Census, Land & Substitutes
Subcategory: Land & estates
Collections from: Ireland
After a lot of searching yesterday I finally managed to locate an image for Wm Speers and Thos Speers arriving on the John Elder Melbourne 31 August 1879. This comes back to William's obituary stating he had been in Tasmania for 14 years. This find is likely but definitely not fully confirmed as being our William. Thomas I located as being in Melbourne, passing in 1937.
So far I have located but still wanting to confirm somehow I have the right sons for Andrew and Mary Speers (maiden name unknown):
John Speers Abt 1846 – 1924 (in Tasmania, Australia) definitely son of Andrew and Mary stated in newspaper articles
Andrew Speers Abt 1851 – 1920 (in Ballynocker, Ireland – Isabella Dawson was granted at Londonderry 16 March 1920) definitely son of Andrew and Mary - he was granted probate of father Andrew's estate
Robert Speers 1952 – 1935 (in Tasmania, Australia) definitely son of Andrew and Mary - definitely son of Andrew and Mary stated in newspaper articles
Thomas Speers Abt 1857 – 1937 (in Melbourne, Australia) may be a son of Andrew and Mary further proof needs to be found. Death has parents as "Unknown" - found this on Trove:
Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957), Saturday 6 March 1948, page 9
THOMAS SPEER. - Will Thomas Speer, formerly of Broagh, Castledawson, in the County of Londonderry, Northern Ireland, and Melbourne, or anyone knowing his present whereabouts, please communicate with Whiting & Byrne, solicitors, 101 William street, Melbourne.
Confirmation still needed for Thomas
William Speers Abt 1860 – 1893 (in Tasmania, Australia) definitely son of Andrew and Mary stated in Obituary.
Whilst I know of Isabella being a daughter, I need to locate other ladies/lady. Who was it who is the mother of Robert Kerr, finding him will confirm, hopefully.
I searched the Registration Office as suggested but was floored that it will cost A$30 for one certificate! Spending that amount of money only to purchase a wrong certificate is something that is out of my reach.
I am going on the hunt for the Speer ladies today and to see if I can locate more information on Thomas.
John Speer/s is the second son born to this couple so I need to locate another son earlier than him.
Cheers
Judi
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For reference-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/1532841
Possible birth- Robert Carr, born 30 Oct.1876, parents- Thomas Carr & Sarah Speer
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGFC-PJL
Other children-
Thomas (1872) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FP1H-BGZ
Mary (1873) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGCD-NJJ
William (1881) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGV9-JH5
Carr family in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/1532843
Widow Sarah Carr in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/613554
Probate of the Will of Thomas Carr late of Ballynougher County Londonderry Farmer who died 29 May 1910 granted at Londonderry to Andrew Speer Farmer
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"....I searched the Registration Office as suggested but was floored that it will cost A$30 for one certificate! Spending that amount of money only to purchase a wrong certificate is something that is out of my reach...."
Are you talking about Ireland? A photocopy of the Cert is €4.00.
It is not a 'Research Copy' as many call it... it is a Photocopy!
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I have the Census for both 1901 and 1911 for Andrew Speers and James and Isabella Dawson. I am yet to locate Robert Kerr, nephew to Andrew Speers.
Cheers
Judi
One of the 4 in Ballynocker,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Magherafelt/Ballynocker/1532841/
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You need to be careful with Kerr as Carr is often used, as I know to well....
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03037/2113622.pdf
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Name THOMAS CARR
Date of Birth 1872
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03253/2192125.pdf
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You should be able to find the Carr/Kerrs on Census
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jzx/ will gets you them on irishgenealogy if you want to research them more
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Please read reply #20 on Robert Kerr/Carr, etc.
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I hope you do not think I was being rude by not connecting back to the Forum but I wanted to look a little further into the families so I could let you know that without everyone’s help here I would not have made it as far as I have with this family.
It is with thanks firstly to hallmark for setting me off in the right direction with the Civil Registrations for the deaths of Andrew and Mary Speers. Further finds by hallmark led me to the marriage of James Dawson and Isabella Speers.
I am still trying to confirm Elizabeth Speer who married William McCready is definitely of the children born to Andrew and Mary Speers. This has turned into a brick wall at the moment but I will pursue this couple nevertheless to confirm whether this is a definite child or not of the couple.
To aghadowey, thank you for Samuel Speer and his wife Rachel who I have been able to locate her surname as being Weir. I am not able to confirm this couple as being part of Speer/s extended family I have, but I will keep on pursuing. I do know however from an obituary and other newspaper clippings that William Speers born 1860 and passing at St Marys, Tasmania 1893 was the last born son to Andrew Speer and Mary nee????
Aghadowey, you have helped immensely with the location of the Carr / Kerr family and for this very grateful. Thomas Carr/Kerr (as it sometimes appears in documentation) married 1871 Magherafelt, Londonderry. No image is available but a search on both surnames Carr and Spear (as it appears on the index) are exactly the same number so I am assuming this is the couple. Further searches have revealed this couple went on to have 11 children, 6 boys and 5 girls. At this stage I have located all birth registrations for the children so am pretty happy with this. I have not taken this further at this stage. I will however look into marriages for each of the children and where possible any deaths.
Thank you hallmark for pointing out a photocopy for the certificate is E4.00. I looked at the form to fill out and sadly it is of no use to me. I do not have a credit or debit card that I put over the internet. I have a generic card that does not bear my name which is mandatory for applying and paying by card. To purchase a cheque for payment in Euro would cost from A$25.00 just to purchase so this is totally out of the question. We live in rural NSW with our bank being about 450kms south and 500kms north. When I travel to Victoria to visit family I will go to the Genealogical Society I belong to there and look at the films they have to see if I can locate information there.
Turning to James Dawson and Isabella nee Speers. I have located “James” Dawson birth. He was registered as William “James” Dawson, born 22 January 1866, Leitrim, Ballyscullion, Magherafelt. James Dawson passed away 9 March 1951 and Isabella 1 September 1939. This couple were laid to rest Christ Church, Church of Ireland, Castledawson, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland - Plot No. 1. As you are already aware this couple married 16 July 1888 in the Presbyterian Church, Magherafelt.
James and Isabella had 4 children, 2 sons and 2 daughters. First born child Andrew William Dawson first married Sarah Matilda Ellis 24 March 1913 Christ Church, Church of Ireland, Castledawson (I have located a birth registration for Sarah Margaret Ellis born to Edward Ellis at Edenreagh, Bellaghy, Londonderry. Sarah passed away 18 September 1918 at Edenreagh. I have not been able to locate where she was laid to rest. Sarah passed away from TB.
Following Sarah’s passing Andrew William Dawson then married May Anderson on 23 September 1919 at Ballymacarret, Belfast.
Second born child, son James Dawson married Sarah Catherwood 19 April 1915 at Ballaghy, Ballyscullion, Londonderry.
First born daughter and third born child Maggie Dawson did not marry. She passed away 27 October 1921 and was laid to rest with her parents.
Second born daughter and fourth born child is Mary Isabella Dawson. I have written down this lady married but I am yet to locate the information I am seeking.
I have also located birth registrations for all these children and where possible their spouses and have downloaded the images.
So it is with thanks for everyone’s help that I have been able to get this far on a family that was a brick wall for so many years. It was by a sheer fluke that I located the brothers of William Speers in Tasmania and possibly Thomas Speers who came to Australia with William Speers in 1879.
Cheers
Judi
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Hi there, I don't know if this is of any help, but I've been doing some research of my own. I am a descendant of Robert Speers and Elizabeth Handley, Andrew Speers was my great grandather. Anyway, there's a bit of information here that might help somewhat - http://www.cocker.id.au/ancestor_handley.php - cheers.
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Thank you very much coreyspeers for your message. We have actually been in contact back in April 2017 and you very kindly advised me of your website.
I have not visited the Speers family for a while now. I have however managed to make contact with Andrew Speer's (1810 - 1900) GG Grandaughter, who is my 3rd cousin.
It is with thanks of the extremely helpful forum members I have been able to piece the family together (but still missing some information) and let my cousin know more information of her heritage.
I have had my head stuck into looking into paternal lineage with family links to Scotland, Australia and New Zealand, finding yet another cousin from our direct lines with my 4 x Great Grandparents being her 5 x Great Grandparents. You really do not know where the journey of family research will end up going or more importantly there are family out there that you did not know anything about.
Cheers Judi
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My GGrF Thomas Carr/Kerr was married to Sarah Speer (1849-1913).
Thomas' probate will to Andrew Speer - farmer - 1912
any connection/information is greatly appreciated.
Jack
photo of Sarah Carr (Speer) attached.
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Thank you hallmark for pointing out a photocopy for the certificate is E4.00. I looked at the form to fill out and sadly it is of no use to me. I do not have a credit or debit card that I put over the internet. I have a generic card that does not bear my name which is mandatory for applying and paying by card. To purchase a cheque for payment in Euro would cost from A$25.00 just to purchase so this is totally out of the question. We live in rural NSW with our bank being about 450kms south and 500kms north. When I travel to Victoria to visit family I will go to the Genealogical Society I belong to there and look at the films they have to see if I can locate information there.
Cheers
Judi
Don't forget to click on Links posted to see if any have been updated with Images...even every 6 months!
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Hello JackK
There most certainly is a connection with Sarah Speer who married Thomas Carr/Kerr.
I have Sarah as being the second child born to Andrew Speer and Mary (surname unknown). Andrew passed away 20 June 1900 at Ballynogher, Magherafelt, Londonderry, Ireland, Mary passed away 23 April 1898 at Ballynogher, Magherafelt, Londonderry, Ireland.
This couple had 8 children that I have located. John Speer abt 1846 - 1924 emigrated to Tasmania married there and raised a family, next Sarah Speer who married Thomas Carr/Kerr, Andrew Speer abt 1851 - 1920 who remained in Ireland, Robert Speer 1852 - 1935 who emigrated to Tasmania, married there and raised a family, Thomas Speer abt 1854 - 1937 who emigrated to Australia and passed away in Melbourne, Victoria, Elizabeth Speer abt 1859, married William McCready 24 February 1888 and as far as I can find out remained in Ireland, William Speer 1860 - 1893 emigrated to Tasmania and passed away 28 October 1893, had a liaison with my GG Aunt which produced a daughter, Isabella Speer abt 1862 - 1939 who married James Dawson 1888. Both laid to rest in Christ Church, Church of Ireland, Castledawson, Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland - Plot No. 1.
Hope this helps with your wanting to know about a connection to the family lineage. Should you wish any further information please private message me.
Cheers
Judi