RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Eupham on Sunday 23 April 17 08:42 BST (UK)
-
Hi All,
I'm trying to find any information on Frank Hobden WORLD I can.
He was born around 1858 in Hampshire England (i think). He died in 1905 in Melbourne Australia.
He married an Alice McCARTHY in Australia (i think).
Any information that people can pass on would be greatly appreciate.
-
Birth Registration (from FreeBMD):
March qtr 1858
Portsea Registration District vol 2b, page 399
World, Frank Hobday
GRO Index Search reports his mother's Maiden Name as Adams.
-
Vic BDM https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
Marriage: 1898 #7466 Frank Hobden WORLD and Alice Mary SMITH
1886 #28682 George John WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Mcarthy)
Place of birth: MELB
1890 #34330 Frank WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Mccarthy)
Place of birth: SOUTH MELBOURNE
1895 #30167 Hy Adams WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Mccarthy)
Place of birth: HOTH WEST
1899 #5755 Mary Anne WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice (Smith)
Place of birth: RICHMOND
1900 #21757 Wm Hy WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice (Smith)
Place of birth: RICHMOND
1902 #21445 John Henry Adams WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice (Mccarthy)
Place of birth: RICHMOND
1904 #28505 Helena May WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice (Mccarthy)
Place of birth: RICHMOND
Death 1905 #2535 Frank WORLD
Father's name: World Geo
Mother's name: Elizth (Adams)
Place of birth
Place of death: Melb E
Age: 47
Death: 1938 #1741 AlIce Mary WORLD
Father's name: Unknown
Mother's name: Unknown (Unknown)
Place of birth
Place of death: Mstone
Age: 68
The Age 2Mar1938 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/205914736
WORLD.- On March 1, at her residence "Nirana," Cathcart-street, Maidstone, Alice Mary, relict of the late Frank Obden World and loving mother of George, Frank (deceased), Edward, William, John and Helena. aged 68 years.
The Age 2Mar1938 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/205914792
WORLD. The Friends of the late Mrs. ALICE MARY WORLD are respectfully informed that her remains will be interred in the Boroondara Cemetery, Kew. The funeral in appointed to move from her residence. "Nirana." Cathcart-street, Maidstone THIS DAY (Wednesday), at 2 p.m.
-
The Age 12 Oct 1918 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/155244009
WORLD. In loving memory of my dear beloved son, Private Frank World, killed in action on the 5th October, 1917 (second time away), second eldest son of Alice World and the late Frank World; beloved grandson of the late George World, coast-guardsman, Queenshot Albert, Portsmouth; loved nephew of the late John Henry Adams Smith, and brother of private George World (home service),
E. W., W.W., J.W. and L W.
When the flags are over the roadway.
And all the brave boys return,
Oh, God, have pity on the watchers,
Whose loved ones will never return
Inserted by his loving Mother and family, Carlton
Also: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/205066221
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206936894
-
Hi,
1893 Sands, Melbourne Directory.
World, Frank., 16 Adolph-st, Rd.
(Rd, probably Richmond)
Gerry
-
Frank WORLD WW1 service
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=3443780
Ros
-
1861 England Census
Class: RG 9; Piece: 644; Folio: 9; Page: 14
19 Berkley Street, Portsea, Hampshire
World, George Head M 49 Steward R.N. b Hythe, Kent
World, Mary Ann Wife F 46 b Portsea
World, Mary Ann Daughter F 14 b North Yarmouth, Norfolk
World, George H Son M 11 Scholar b Portsea
World, Charlotte Daughter F 9 Scholar b Portsea
World, Martha Daughter F 7 Scholar b Portsea
World, Edward C Son M 3 Scholar b Portsea
World, Frank H Son M 3 b Portsea
-
Royal Navy Registers of Seaman's Services
Frank Hobden World, born 22 December 1855, at Southsea, Hampshire
5 ft 7 inches, brown hair, hazel eyes
HMS Malabar from 22 Sept 1874 to 6 Jan 1875
HMS Jumna from 18 Jan 1875 to 15 May 1875
HMS Duke of Wellington from 3 Sept 1875 to 30 Nov 1875
HMS Assistance from 1 Dec 1875 to 9 July 1876
HMS Salamis from 6 Jan 1877 to 30 Sept 1879
HMS Carysfort from 15 Sept 1880 to 6 Jan 1881
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Malabar_(1866)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Jumna_(1866)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Duke_of_Wellington_(1852)
http://www.worldnavalships.com/directory/shipinfo.php?ShipID=4349
https://hmscarysfort.blogspot.com/2012/03/hms-carysfort-1878-91-victorian_10.html
-
1881 England Census has a Frank. H. World, married, 25, born in Southsea, Hants, as a Wardroom Steward on board the HMS Carysfort anchored at Simon's Bay Cape of Good Hope.
So looks like Frank was in the RN as a Wardroom Steward on the HMS Carysfort, maybe he got off in Melbourne and stayed.
Note, married.
Gerry
-
Death: 1895 #13658 Hy Adams WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Mccarthy)
Place of birth
Place of death: Hoth W
Age: 6 must be 6 mths
Death: 1899 #3493 Mary Ann WORLD
Father's name: World Frank
Mother's name: Alice (Smith)
Place of birth
Place of death: Rmond
Age: 3 must be 3 mths
Death 1938 #11100 Wm Hy WORLD
Father's name: World Frank
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Smith)
Place of birth
Place of death: Prahran
Age: 39
Death: 1966 #11554 George John WORLD
Father's name: WORLD William [sic]
Mother's name: Alice (Unknown)
Place of birth: Port Melbourne
Place of death: Parkville
Age: 79
Death: 1967 #3951 John Henry Adam WORLD
Father's name: WORLD Frank Ogden
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Smith)
Place of birth: Richmond
Place of death: Heidelberg
Age: 64
Death: 1975 #5656 Helena May Dorothy POOLE
Father's name: WORLD Frank
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Smith)
Place of birth: Whittlesea
Place of death: Whittlesea
Age: 70
-
Death: 1895 #13658 Hy Adams WORLD
Father's name: Frank
Mother's name: Alice Mary (Mccarthy)
Place of birth
Place of death: Hoth W
Age: 6 must be 6 mths
Death: 1899 #3493 Mary Ann WORLD
Father's name: World Frank
Mother's name: Alice (Smith)
Place of birth
Place of death: Rmond
Age: 3 must be 3 mths
Just clarifying
WORLD Mary Ann
Father World Frank
Mother Alice SMITH
Age Code D (= days)
Death Place Rmond
Yea 1899
Reg 3493
WORLD Hy Adams
Father Frank
Mother Alice Mary MCCARTHY
Age 6
Age Code D (=days)
Death Place Hoth W
Year 1895
Reg. 13658
ADDING
Birth
WORLD Hy Adams
Father Frank
Mother Alice Mary MCCARTHY
Birth Place HOTH WEST
Year 1895
Reg. 30167
Sue
-
Sue, thanks for clarifying those deaths
Adding:
The Age 13 Oct 1928 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204116209
WORLD SMITH. In loving memory of my dear son. Private Frank (Sailor) World, late 24th Btn., killed in action in Belgium 8th October, 1917: also my dearly loved brother, Private J. H. A. Smith, died of wounds received at Lone Pine 2lst July, 1916.
Loving memories never die.
--Inserted by their loving mother and sister,
Mrs. Alice M. World, and family, Carlton.
Also: (under SMITH) http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/155132289
-
Marriage: 1942 #214 Helena May WORLD and Roy Wm POOLE
Eltham and Whittlesea Shires Advertiser 27 Feb 1942
POOLE-WORLD marriage http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/57496072
Death: 1984 #9545 Roy William POOLE
Father's name: POOLE George
Mother's name: Emily (Cook)
Place of birth: Rutherglen
Place of death: Whittlesea
Age: 78
-
Hi I think the Funeral Notice for Frank was published in the in The Age 20.2.1905 Page 10
he is also buried in the same grave as Alice Mary
http://www.kewcemetery.com.au/search/ShowGrave.php?ServiceID=25123
Cass
-
From the Victorian Rates Books on a Subscription Site we find in 1887 and 1889 Frank World, tailor at 216 Nott Street, Port Melbourne, the premises was owned by another person.
During 1887 to 1889 there were a number of wanted advertisements in the Melbourne Age for machinists or hands to sew up mole trousers, with a contact address given as 216 Nott Street Port Melbourne.
Change of address.
The 1889 Victorian Rates Book also has Frank at 193 City Road , South Melbourne where he is listed as a manufacturer, probably mole skin trousers.
The Age, Tuesday 11th June 1889, page 1.
Situations Vacant
"AT Worlds, 193 City-rd, S. Melbourne-Mole Trouser Hands, outdoor, constant."
Gerry
-
The Age 25 Sep 1915 http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/155005924
WRIGHT.On the 24th September, at her residence, No. 117 Palmer-street, Richmond, Elizabeth Sarah, relict of the late George Wright, beloved mother of John H. Smith, Mrs Alice World, Mrs, E. McEwan and Francis Stephens; grandmother of Edward Wright. Frank. George. William, John and Lena World. also Edward, Lavina. John and Leslie Smith and Mrs Schooling, aged 79 years.
Death: 1915 #11038 Elizth Sarah WRIGHT
Father's name: World Geo Jno
Mother's name: Mary Ann (Adams)
Place of birth
Place of death: Rmond
Age: 79
-
Hi I think the Funeral Notice for Frank was published in the in The Age 20.2.1905 Page 10
he is also buried in the same grave as Alice Mary
http://www.kewcemetery.com.au/search/ShowGrave.php?ServiceID=25123
Cass
Adding link to Funeral notice: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/192231373
-
Hi All,
Thanks so much for your help so far!
Some of your post have left me with many more questions. As Gerry points out the 1881 census has "Frank. H. World, married, 25, born in Southsea, Hants, as a Wardroom Steward on board the HMS Carysfort anchored at Simon's Bay Cape of Good Hope"
Six years later his first child is born in Australa. Is this a different wife or Alice? Did he jump ship and ditch a wife and family in England or is there a record of Frank World arriving in Australia?
-
TROVE has the Carysfort in Hobson's Bay (Melbourne) in May 1881
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/67204331
It was ordered with some other RN ships to leave the Cape for Melbourne in April 1881.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/199520532
More about the proposed itinerary of the detached squadron, including the Carysfort, 1881
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38222634
Carysfort, and other ships, were in Melbourne for about 7 weeks
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5971626
Up to 70 deserters from the Carysfort
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/198491142 Page 21 far right column
So it seems possible that Frank did desert. I can't see a marriage for him in England/Wales on Free BMD, but he could have married elsewhere. A prior marriage may explain the reason for his marriage to taking place 12 years after the birth of their first child.
Frank's death certificate can be downloaded for about $24 and should give some useful information.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/search+your+family+history/
Judith
Alice Mary would have been only 11 in 1881, if her age at death is correct.
Seems odd that Alice's surname (If it's the same person) is recorded as SMITH in the births of Mary Ann WORLD, 1899 and William Henry WORLD 1900, and the deaths of John Henry Adam WORLD in 1967, and William Henry in 1938.
-
Hi Judith,
Thanks so much for this.
It's interesting you mention the SMITH link. I have a theory and maybe I'm drawing a long bow but I think that Frank Hobden WORLD may have married his cousin Alice May WORLD nee McCARTHY nee SMITH.
My reasons for this are -
1. There is an article in this thread where Alice pays respect to her son Frank World who was killed in WWI as well as her brother John Henry Adams SMITH. Maybe the maiden name of Alice and Johns Mother
2. Frank Hobden WORLDS mother's maiden names was Mary Ann ADAMS
3. Frank and Alice had a son Henry Adams WORLD
Maybe Frank's Mother and Alice's Mother were sisters. He may have jumped ship because he had family already living here.
A long bow?
-
hmm - will have to have another look tomorrow. Lots of on-line trees suggest that Mary arrived in Melbourne in 1863, aged 5 per Western Ocean from Liverpool. Nationality: Irish
This child was not travelling with anyone else of the same surname. Looking at the image it's difficult to know whether the middle initial is "A" or not. Shipping records are sometimes not very reliable.
There is an on-line a copy of Frank's naval service which gives the last date of service on the Carysfort as 6 June 1881 which was when that ship was in Melbourne. Under the Discharged column it says: "Shore per order and request" and I'm not sure what that actually means.
Judith
-
Hi,
"Shore per order and request" may have meant a request for a posting to a RN Shore Station.
Gerry
-
RE
1. There is an article in this thread where Alice pays respect to her son Frank World who was killed in WWI as well as her brother John Henry Adams SMITH. Maybe the maiden name of Alice and Johns Mother
John Henry (Adams) SMITH born 1876 reg #22900 was the son of George SMITH and Elizabeth WORLD (recorded as WORRALD) and they had a daughter Mary Alice born 1869 reg #22217.
So it looks like Frank may have married his niece? Alice would have been aged 17 when their first child was born.
Essie
-
Great find Essie.
Elizabeth WORLD was married 3 times.
Firstly to Francis STEPHENS, Apr qr, 1853 at Portsea Island. Vol 2b, p670
Francis STEPHENS, 26, carpenter, wife, 1 child and 1 male infant arrived as assisted immigrants, per Castilian, 13 May 1857. They left the immigration depot on 27 June "on own a/c" i.e. not to an employer.
Then to George SMITH 1870, #4239
And to George Frederick WRIGHT in 1890 #9135, using the surname STEPHENS.
According to the death notice posted by Cup of Life her children's surnames were: SMITH and STEPHENS (also married names for Mrs Alice World, Mrs E. McEwan); she was grandmother of Edward WRIGHT.
Judith
-
No wonder I couldn't find any marriages for Elizabeth nee WORLD. I tried to work back from the death of Elizabeth WRIGHT without success.
Elizth Sarah WRIGHT age 79 died 1915 at Richmond
Parents were Geo Jno WORLD and Mary Ann ADAMS
Reg. #11038
Essie
-
Interesting to note that when Alice Mary WORLD ("relict of Frank Hobden WORLD")died 1938, the entry in the Victorian BMD index gives her parents as "unknown" . Was it deliberate to not note her parents? I would have thought her children were of an age to have known her background .
I note also that Alice Mary SMITH was born before the marriage of her parents.
And now, where does the name McCARTHY come from?
Judith