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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 11:02 BST (UK)

Title: Old French Documents for translation
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 11:02 BST (UK)
I have a very old French bound vellum book with over 500 handwritten pages dating to the 1590's. It appears to be Indentures or legal documents as every couple of pages there are multiple signatures.

I was wondering whether anyone on the forum may be able to point me in the right direction of someone who may be able to translate a section so I can find out a little more about it.
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Scribble1952 on Sunday 16 April 17 11:11 BST (UK)
Natural History Musem in London.
May help.


Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 11:59 BST (UK)
Thank you for your help
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 16 April 17 12:02 BST (UK)
You could always post a snippet from the book, here on this forum - there are some very, very clever people here on Rootschat  :)
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: josey on Sunday 16 April 17 12:04 BST (UK)
Not sure why the Natural History Museum could help with old French?

Could you post a scan of one page so that we can see the handwriting, please? There may be someone on this forum who can help - ie can interpret old handwiting AND understand old French  :). There are many linguists on RootsChat.

Josey

SNAP BumbleB
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 12:11 BST (UK)
Firstly here is the front cover
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 12:12 BST (UK)
Here is the first page ... over 500 in total
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 12:14 BST (UK)
A couple more pages
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 12:17 BST (UK)
Last couple.

I hope this helps?
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: josey on Sunday 16 April 17 12:19 BST (UK)
What an amazing document. The script is beyond me but I know Bookbox & horselydown86 amongst others are extremely good at it.
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 16 April 17 12:21 BST (UK)
What a fantastic book - you are so lucky  ;D
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 12:25 BST (UK)
Thank you so much. It's a complete mystery to me. I bought it from a flea market recently here in the U.K from a chap who travels to France every month or so.

Let's see if there is anybody who can shed any light on the text.
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: josey on Sunday 16 April 17 12:31 BST (UK)
It's going to be a wonderful resource for French family historians. Great you managed to buy & preserve it. Wonder what organisations there are in France for family history? I am sure they would help.

You've certainly done right in highlighting it here, Craig.
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 12:35 BST (UK)
Thank you

Yes it would be really great if we could see if it related to a particular family / village / town as it must be useful for someone who is researching their past.

I appreciate all the positive comments. I also see it as 'saving' it from obscurity.
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: jayaygee on Sunday 16 April 17 14:01 BST (UK)
What a great find you have made.  On the first page it says it is a register of deeds and contracts drawn up by Pons BAUDOIN notary royal in residence in the town of Pradelles in the years 1594 and 1595, plus some words I can't make out.  On Généanet, there is a tree which includes a Pons Baudoin 1560-1610 notary in Pradelles, Haute Loire, so it very much looks like him.  The second paragraph is in Latin and quite beyond me.

Theoretically, the proper place for this sort of document here in France is in the relevant Archives Départementales as they enable research beyond the beginnings of most parish registers. They are invaluable to family historians, needless to say.

Unless anyone else does so in the meantime, I'll try and see what the documents are about, but I'm no expert.
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: josey on Sunday 16 April 17 14:04 BST (UK)
Brill, I knew someone knowledgeable would 'come by'; now we know where it comes from.

Again, Bookbox, horselydown86 & arthurk, to name a few, are very good at translating latin. 
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 15:27 BST (UK)
Thank you Jayaygee.

It's so good to not only find out the village, but also the chap who created them.

Absolutely wonderful
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 15:30 BST (UK)
So great!
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Bookbox on Sunday 16 April 17 17:27 BST (UK)
On the first page it says it is a register of deeds and contracts drawn up by Pons BAUDOIN notary royal in residence in the town of Pradelles in the years 1594 and 1595, plus some words I can't make out.  On Généanet, there is a tree which includes a Pons Baudoin 1560-1610 notary in Pradelles, Haute Loire, so it very much looks like him.  The second paragraph is in Latin and quite beyond me.

The second half of the page consists of four quotations from the Bible, in Latin, to illustrate the qualities of Justice, Peace, Security and Liberality.

The first one reads ...

Justice
Pondus equum voluntas eius     Pro

(A false balance is abomination to the Lord, but) a just weight is his delight, from Proverbs

... and they continue in similar vein.

(I'm sure this volume should be deposited in a local French archive, as jayaygee suggests. An excellent find!)
Title: Re: Old French Documengs
Post by: Craig tilton7 on Sunday 16 April 17 17:31 BST (UK)
Thank you BookBox that is very interesting and useful. I'm glad I picked it up and saved it from the obscurity of a dusty box.

Best wishes
Title: Re: Old French Documents for translation
Post by: P. Feaster on Thursday 19 September 19 03:03 BST (UK)
I've happened across your post somewhat belatedly, but to build on what others have written, this is a fine example of a French notarial register.  I have a similar one from the 1580s, bought on eBay, that I've been researching and reading.  My understanding is that notaries drafted legal documents in books like this before copying the texts onto vellum for the parties to keep.  Based on what I can see in your photos, you have a nice range of document types: a purchase ("achapt"), a will ("testament"), and so on.  Some start with conventional formulas ("A nom de Dieu soit / a tous presens et advenir..." = "In the name of God, Amen; to all present and future..." etc.), while others begin with a date ("Lan mil cinq cens quatre vingtz quinze....." -- "In the year 1595....," etc.), if that helps you at all with decipherment.