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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: rebeccaclaire86 on Wednesday 12 April 17 11:58 BST (UK)
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I've found what looks to be my ancestors marriage in the London Clandestine registers, however I am really struggling to decipher the bottom line where it says the bride's parish. It may be a mistranscription of Brickendon which was near the groom's parish of Hertford, but am unsure about the words in the middle. I think the last word is 'by' as it is followed by a signature of the person who conducted the marriage, and other marriages on this page follow this pattern.
Would appreciate any thoughts on what the bottom line says!
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http://placenames.org.uk/browse/mads/epns-deep-39-c-mappedname-000840
Brickhampton??
Angie
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If you found that on Ancestry, have a look at the other entry. I find it fairly illegible too, but hopefully one of the experts familiar with the style of writing will be able to interpret one or the other.
It looks like Brickington in Vit.......? :-\
The other entries have a place or parish name and then the county, though there are variations in the format. I can't think what county or other place might start with a V ..
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Can you please tell me what it says after Labr on 2nd last line before Burton as this would be a help?
Bottom line looks to be Brickington in V_lla_y? Dist (District)? but knowing what's before Burton could point to where?
Annie
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Annie, I think it is "and Sarah" Barton. The "and" is shortened and a symbol used. (ampersand?)
marriage - 6th September 1731
The entry reads something like:
Edward Venables of St John in Hertford Labr and Sarah Barton of Brickington? in V....
by I Gaynam? :-\
(transcribed on Ancestry as both 'Brickington in Pedict' and 'Brickinton Villaug') :-\
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Would the word after Brickington be village ?
Maybe not :-\
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Thanks Ruskie ;D
You're right, couldn't fathom it at all, probably focusing too much on where ::)
Annie
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Would the word after Brickington be village ?
Maybe not :-\
Claire,
I initially thought that but there seems to be a bit of a gap between the 'a' & the 'g' with another letter?
Annie
Edit, I can't even find a Brickington ???
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I think:
1. After the word Lab(oure)r is a B meaning Bachelor.
2. The last word on the last line is Sp(inste)r.
3. The first word on the last line is Brickington.
I know:
1. The second last word on the last line is p(re)dict = aforesaid (in Latin).
So wherever Brickington in V_ll__ is, it (or at least one of them) is mentioned in the register somewhere above this record.
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Thanks HD,
Still no nearer finding 'Brickington' but found a close fit, Birchington (Kent) ???
Annie
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Still no nearer finding 'Brickington' but found a close fit, Birchington (Kent) ??
In the original posting it was suggested that it might well be an incorrect rendering of the place name Brickendon near Hertford.
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So wherever Brickington in V_ll__ is, it (or at least one of them) is mentioned in the register somewhere above this record.
I should have said:
...mentioned either within this record or in the register somewhere above this record.
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In the original posting it was suggested that it might well be an incorrect rendering of the place name Brickendon near Hertford.
Ooops, so it was Jen ::)
Annie
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Excellent Horsleydown - I knew someone would be able to interpret this. :)
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So probably is 'Village'
"Brickendon is a village in the civil parish of Brickendon Liberty in the district of East Hertfordshire"
Annie
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Ok, the Latin word for town is ville.
Probably....Brickington in the town aforesaid.
ADDED: Town or village.
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Thanks so much for all the responses, really appreciate the help! Looks like it's a mistranscription of Brickendon then. :)
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See: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/herts/vol3/pp409-414
The heading is:
Parts of ALL SAINTS and ST. JOHN'S HERTFORD, including the liberties of Brickendon and Little Amwell.
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http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=16&lat=51.7552&lon=-0.0852&layers=171&right=BingHyb
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Thanks so much for all the responses, really appreciate the help! Looks like it's a mistranscription of Brickendon then. :)
Not so much a mistranscription as a variation in spelling, typical of the time.
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Don't know if it helps
Hertford, is a town, three parishes, a sub-district, a district, and a hundred, in Hertfordshire. The tree parishes taking designation from Hertford All Saints, St. Andrew, and St. John
Honing in Ruskie's maps
Below Hertford - is Brickendon rural and St John Rural
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=15&lat=51.7776&lon=-0.0684&layers=171&right=BingHyb
Hertford - Brickendon urban & St John urban
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=15&lat=51.7972&lon=-0.0763&layers=171&right=BingHyb
'Liberty of Brickendon,' (fn. ...... reeve at a time when Hertford as a villa regalis was the administrative centre for the district. (villa reg / of Royal will admin / Royal [Regal] house estate admin)
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/herts/vol3/pp490-501
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=g7iNnoo-vHsC&q=Hertford+as+a+villa+regalis&dq=Hertford+as+a+villa+regalis&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y
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It's extremely helpful, thank you Dobfarm.
Although the term originates a long time before the record in question, that Hertford was referred to as a Villa fits perfectly with our record. It looks as though the London clergyman was being precise in his choice of words.
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Villa reg - Is also found in some parish registers (more 16/17th century but odd one on 18th century to pre 1812 registers on landed gentry estates admin shortened to Vill. (Sometimes thought 'of village' but if found the person of the event was a tenant farmer out in the country = 'of estate' Vill.)
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Very impressive work - well done horselydown86 and dobfarm
:)
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Very impressive work - well done horselydown86 and dobfarm
:)
Hi Claire,
We only added too,
Ruskie: did the main finding
Fair doo's
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And well done to everyone who contributed :)
...especially Ruskie :)
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Thank you, but I disagree. ;)
It was Horseleydown and Dob who did the reading and interpreting of the text which answered the original question. :)
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Would the word after Brickington be village ?
Maybe not :-\
Correct in one- Village on/in/under gentry estate admin (not civil parish admin directly).
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Thanks again to everyone who helped with the clarification, I'm very grateful!