RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Greenlich on Monday 10 April 17 05:05 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to trace my ancestry back to Ireland and have found that my Grandmother’s grandfather was James Carroll born in Ireland in 1841. He emigrated to Bradford, Yorkshire between 1847 and 1851 with his family. His father is Hugh Carroll (born approx. 1811), mother was Mary Carroll (born approx. 1816), his siblings were Catherine, born approx. 1845 and Winifred, born approx. 1847, there was another sister born in Bradford in 1851 called Ann. I found all of this information in the English census of 1851, further censuses have confirmed I have the right family but the only details of where they came from is Ireland with no county etc.
I also found a marriage between a Hugo Carrol and a Maria Delany on 11/7/1839 at St Nicholas, Dublin on the websire Irish genealogy.ie but can't get into the link to look at the church record page. The image filename is st.nicholas_mf_1822-1880_ma_0029
and the record identifier is DU-RC-MA-155967, apparently on page 57.
I am hoping someone may have information that could help me.
Thank you, Di
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If you read some of the other current posts you will see that your inability to read the record is due to a system/server crash. You should be able to look at the original image once service is restored.
However, I also want to mention that you seem headed towards a well known source of potential error, known as the "streetlamp" effect. Imagine that there were 10 baptisms in Ireland where the parent's names and say one child's name matched with your family names. Now, assume that 3 of these 10 baptisms were never recorded in the first place, that another 4 baptisms were recorded in registers which have been lost over the years, and that one further baptism is in a register which was not microfilmed or transcribed. Of the two remaining hypothetical records, let us assume that one was completely mistranscribed by the Indian or Canadian commercial company contracted to do the job. So, of the original 10 matching baptisms, your are left with just one surviving transcribed record where the names match what you are looking for. It is at this point that many people simply accept the match as "theirs," whereas in this hypothetical example, the chance that it is really their family is actually only 10%. i.e. people look only under the streetlamp (i.e. only consider the surviving records), and are unaware of the much larger area outside the region illuminated by the streetlamp (the potentially large number of matching baptisms and marriages where no record survives).
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Thank you for your reply. Do you know what the best way would be for me to find out where in Ireland my Carroll family came from?
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Thank you for your reply. Do you know what the best way would be for me to find out where in Ireland my Carroll family came from?
I would start by talking to as many people (relatives) as possible about what they know. I found it invaluable. Second, you probably need to sign up with a commercial service (e.g. RootsIreland, Ancestry, Findmypast), and use their databases to search for matches.
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There are no people alive left to chat too. My grandmother died quite a few years ago and all she knew was that her father said they had Irish blood.
I am a member of ancestry.com
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Hello Di and welcome :)
As has been pointed out, you do need to be cautious.
Take a look here - you have to register but it is free https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
I have looked and it seems that Ann's mother's maiden name is Clay. You will have to double check though.
Regards
Heywood
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There are no people alive left to chat too. My grandmother died quite a few years ago and all she knew was that her father said they had Irish blood.
I am a member of ancestry.com
Then you can select their Irish Catholic parish resister database, and search there.
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Also, remember that the microfilmed Catholic parish registers are all available free on the NLI website
http://registers.nli.ie (http://registers.nli.ie)
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Thank you
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Not sure of which parish to start with there though, as all the census has told me is that they come from Ireland.
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The Hugh Carroll/Maria Delaney marriage is here
right hand page no parents or address given
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633622#page/29/mode/1up
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Thank you
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Hello again,
I don't know if you checked GRO but I have now had the chance to have another look.
1851 census shows Ann aged 1 month so born in 1851.
The indexes shows the following birth for 1st quarter 1851
Ann Carral with mother's maiden name of Kilmore.
You would be best to apply for Ann's birth certificate - specifying father Hugh to check Mary's maiden name. This may help your search in Ireland.
Heywood
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Griffith's Valuations show's the name Kilmore predominately in Cavan with a few in Leitrim and Sligo
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
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Thank you both. I have ordered both of the Ann's birth certificates. They'll take a while to get here to Australia.
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Good luck - let's hope one is ok.
Using the GRO indexes, there are two births - both Mary with mother Gilmore in 1854 and 1857. I can see a death for the 1857 little one but not the other. :-\
That is another variation to think of if it is the same family.
Added
Andrew Carroll --1849 birth and death - same mmn
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My (possible) Mary Kilmore/Gilmore came to Bradford, Yorkshire in 1851, would have been born in Ireland around 1816 according to the English Census. I have noticed the possibility of Kilmore being spelt as Gilmore as well which opens up a lot of other places in Ireland she could have come from.
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I have just added another baby - see above.
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In the 1851 census the only children were James, Catherine, Winifred and Anne. In the 1861 census only Catherine and Winifred were at home. Interestingly their neighbours, also from Ireland, were Patrick and Anne Roach with a baby daughter who had their brother in law Martin Gillmore age 16 living with them as well as their sister in law Wineford Durkan, a widow, and her 2 young daughters. Catherine Carroll married a James Durkin around 1865
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If it is the right family, they had babies who died.
If I recall I think I saw that Winifred died too so you would only James and Catherine to follow in censuses. Are there any birthplaces other than Ireland for either of these?
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In 1871 census Winifred was still living with her father as was Catherine and her husband James Durkin plus their children. Hugh Carroll died in 1876. In the 1881 census Winifred is living in the same house she was in in 1871 with her sister Catherine and her family, however her age is given as about 5 years younger. In all of the census it only gives birthplace as Ireland for all of them, although sometimes James Carrolls birthplace is given as Bradford, but in later years it is Ireland again.
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GRO shows Mary and Ann Durkin with mmn Gilmore so presumably Winefred Durkin is née Gilmore - Mary's sister?
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Once you have confirmation (hopefully) you might want to further pursue these branches.
1850 marriage Winnie Gillmore and Thomas Durkin are on the same page.
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In 1871 census Winifred was still living with her father as was Catherine and her husband James Durkin plus their children. Hugh Carroll died in 1876. In the 1881 census Winifred is living in the same house she was in in 1871 with her sister Catherine and her family, however her age is given as about 5 years younger. In all of the census it only gives birthplace as Ireland for all of them, although sometimes James Carrolls birthplace is given as Bradford, but in later years it is Ireland again.
Sorry - I think it was Ann who died not Winifred.
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Once you have confirmation (hopefully) you might want to further pursue these branches.
1850 marriage Winnie Gillmore and Thomas Durkin are on the same page.
Same page as what?
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Ann Roach is also maiden name Gillmore
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2CHH-XQK
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Sorry- the marriage indexes on Free BMD. https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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Thank you
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Found Winney's marriage to Thomas Durkin on ancestry.com, her father was Martin Gillmore
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKKP-RFY
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D7F-YCN
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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKKP-RFY
Rochdale St Chad's 17th July 1849
Ann Gilmore - father Martin , a Farmer
Witnesses Peter O'Neil and Catherine Murthough all parties signed 'X'
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Thank you.
Need to find a link between them and Mary, beyond last name. Can't find any births for any of them with Martin as a father in Ireland yet
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Hello. I am from the line of James Durkin and Catherine Carroll. Married in Bradford 16th May 1864. Their daughter Winifred Durkin married Martin Walsh in Bradford 6th Aug 1906.
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Hi Jim,
I have managed to connect all of the links I was trying to and have a lot of information on the Carroll family and Gilmore/Kilmore family that I can give you if you like.