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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: tedscout on Monday 10 April 17 04:33 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to find out how a lady who was having children in the 1840's in Hobart, Tasmania, arrived in Australia. All records of her later in life say she was born in Suffolk, England.
I cannot find her as a convict, and I cannot find when the father of her children arrived in Tasmania. I cannot find the couple arriving together. However, the man is a shipwright.
Anyway, just a question that might put me on a new track.
Cheers, Ted
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Would she have come when perhaps her Dad arrived as part of the garrison forces? If family came with the soldier, then they can be very tricky to find arrival details for.
Could she have come as a steerage passenger, so only a number and not a name on a passenger list?
Could she have travelled under her birth surname, or perhaps as wife .... and then become a widow to remarry in VDL to the chap she had children with in Hobart?
Could she have arrived in NSW or one of the other colonies (including NZ) and then moved to VDL later?
Perhaps if you shared her name and details ;D someone could find her arrival or clues to her arrival
JM
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Do you have records of the births of the children? When was the first child born?
If you think she arrived in the 1830s then it won't be via New Zealand. Around 1833 there were quite a few immigrants who were NOT convicts who arrived in Tasmania from Britain.
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Early Europeans in NZ may well have sailed from NSW or VDL before 1840 .... Missionaries, escaped convicts, whalers etc http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/history-of-immigration
JM
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I wasn't suggesting that there were no Europeans in New Zealand in the 1830s. There were a few, but they weren't your average woman from Suffolk. Organised immigration where you could buy a passage on a ship commenced later for New Zealand with the departure of the first NZCompany ships in 1839, whereas ships had been bringing non-convict immigrants to Tasmania for a few years by then.
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Some names of Europeans in NZ in 1820s ....
http://www.methodist.org.nz/files/docs/wesley%20historical/4(2)-2%20first%20years%20at%20hokianga%20.pdf
Add .... Keziah BEDFORD mentioned in the above booklet was from England, from Surrey, (so not that far from Suffolk) and her descendants would likely explain that she believed she was 'your average woman' .... sorry for not agreeing with hurworth on this occasion.
JM
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Her name was Hannah and she had twins Esther and Hannah DAVIDSON, in 1841 in Hobart Town.
The name of the father on the baptism records is James DAVIDSON.
On her marriage certificate in 1866 to James DAVIDSON she states her name as Hannah INGRAM.
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Have you investigated what became of the Hannah Ingram baptised in Beccles, Suffolk on 7 December 1806?
To rule her out, it may be worth looking to see if you can trace her life in England.
Jebber
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And
Baptism
DAVIDSON Henry
Father James and Mother Hannah
13 Aug 1844
At Hobart Reg#2323
Cando
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And another
Baptism
DAVIDSON James
Father James Mother Hannah
6 Nov 1842
At Hobart Reg#1766
Cando
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Hi Ted,
Here's some info first published in the 1880s, mentions Hannah .... says James married her in England in 1837 :) Here's the source .... seems to be 2 volumes of submitted info : Victoria and its Metropolis - Past and Present, by Alexander Sutherland, MA. Published in two volumes 1888 by McCarron, Bird & Co.,
James Davidson, Rosedale, was born in Manchester, England, in 1810. He was at school until he was thirteen years of age, and afterwards learned the trade of shipwright at Liverpool, where he lived for seven years. Taking to sea, he visited in succession Montreal, Quebec, the United States of America, and Russia. Setting out once more from Liverpool (to which he had returned) he sailed to Portland, New Hampshire, New York, St. John's, Halifax, Oporto and Hamburg, and in 1840 came to Australia, landing at Adelaide, S.A. There he worked at his trade at 8s. per day for three years. Prior to this he had undergone much hardship, having been wrecked in the brig Caroline Leslie in Lagoon Bay, and also on the Florida reef, Texas. Going to Gippsland in 1844; he worked on a station there for a time, and purchased 309 acres of land at £1 per acre. He also bought 10 acres of town allotments at Sale, 2½ acres of which are worth about £500 per acre. Mr. Davidson is now engaged in farming and grazing pursuits, and has real and personal estate to the amount of about £9000. He was married in England in 1837 to Hannah Ingram, a native of Yarmouth, and has a family of seven children.
Submitted, so it needs checking/validating of course :) :) :) but hopefully something to start off .... :)
JM
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Thanks Cando - I now know that Henry died aged 1 still in Hobart Town. and yes that is my James.
Jebber - I cannot find a Hannah Ingram in the 1841 census born Beccles. But then if she is mine she would already be having her twins in Hobart Town.
Yes JM - thanks to Cando's mum's book we know this version of James DAVIDSON's life. I do now know he didn't marry Hannah in England in 1837.
What I want to know is how Hannah got here?
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I have these books which were given to me by grandmother as her father and grandfather had entries. The submissions were usually by family members if not the persons themselves.
Cando
Edit....you're too quick for me Ted :P
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agh, I see ;D ;D ;D
:)
JM
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I may add that some of the entries are quite 'entertaining'. :-X :-X :-X
Cando
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Strange entry https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ I wonder who this Hannah INGRAM married in 1837
Hannah INGRAM, Newcastle, GRO Vol 18 pg 144
"The district Newcastle is not a valid district, or a known variant of a valid district. "
JM
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Yes, I have read some very interesting/creative entries in similar books for NSW personalities .... 8) 8) 8) .... The NSW submitters may have been suffering from 'imaginitis'
JM
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Strange entry https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ I wonder who this Hannah INGRAM married in 1837
Hannah INGRAM, Newcastle, GRO Vol 18 pg 144
"The district Newcastle is not a valid district, or a known variant of a valid district. "
JM
JM - I was quite excited this afternoon when I found a Hannah INGRAM convicted of manslaughter in Somerset. I followed all the transcripts and she was accused of killing her husband - I was so upset when I found she was acquitted.
So she is not my Hannah.
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I cannot find a candidate for this Hannah arriving before 1841 in my offline NSW resources I have checked, but I will keep looking. :) Females in VDL records are very elusive in that era, particularly if 'came free'. :)
BUT the 1837 sighting from free bmd uk is for a marriage !!! and I cannot find a groom for her ! 8) 8) 8)
JM
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Thanks for your help JM,
I've been looking for her all week.
I don't think they married in England in 1837. If they had why marry again in 1866 and the earlier marriage not be mentioned on either death certificate, but the 1866 one is?
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:) Good point, but the submitter has given they married in 1837 in England, so it may be worthwhile considering what evidence the submitter had found in the 1880s to support that belief ;D Do you have any of the seven children being born in Vic? If so, were they born after civil registration commenced in Vic? .... could be quality info on any Vic BDM birth cert ...
Fingers crossed...
JM
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Yes but the submitter also said he came to Australia landing at Adelaide SA. in 1840
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George DAVIDSON is the youngest the family have property in Gippsland when he was born in 1852 but I haven't found his birth yet.
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An earlier thread with some details of the family:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=680370.0
Interesting that your Davidsons went to Gippsland from Hobart. We have ancestors who also moved to Sale from the Hobart area at about the same time.
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I cannot find a Hannah Ingram in the 1841 census born Beccles. But then if she is mine she would already be having her twins in Hobart Town.
But her parents were living in Beccles, Suffolk in 1841. I've sighted Hannah's 1866 marriage cert attached to a public tree. Father was a Tailor. Hannah signed with her mark. Little details can often help with research.
1841
Living at Beccles, Suffolk
INGRAM William 74 Tailor Born county
INGRAM Ann 74 Born County
1851 Living at Puddingmoor Street Beccles, Suffolk
INGRAM Ann 84 Pauper Born Sotterly, Suffolk.
Hannah died in 1887 - cause of death senility. Publication was in 1888 so the submission was possibly by one of her children and info from family stories!! If they had looked at her marriage cert they would have at least found her correct place of birth.
I suggest you search the shipping arrivals on TROVE in 1840 for their arrival in Tasmania.
This certainly looks like Hannah's baptism
Have you investigated what became of the Hannah Ingram baptised in Beccles, Suffolk on 7 December 1806?
To rule her out, it may be worth looking to see if you can trace her life in England.
Jebber
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Cando, so much for the census information.
I didn't have Hanna's parents names when I was looking for Ingram's in Beccles. I do now, thanks to the kind person with the public tree.
I have also purchased Mary Ann's birth certificate only to find that it is only the Baptism record the same as the kind person with the public tree had attached to her. So no extra information there. :'(
Edward was baptised on the same date, and is on the same baptism record.
Aunty E said over the weekend that she believes the DAVIDSON's were whalers, and she has been to the museum in Eden NSW with her cousin. So I am now looking for James using this information as a starter, but I do remember that family stories can be just that - a story.
Oh well, I think I have now found every ancestor that came to Australia from overseas
Thank you again for your help, Cheers, Ted
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DAVIDSON's were whalers
Wasn't James born Manchester, Lancashire?
According to that 1866 marriage cert, his father was George and a farmer.
Cando
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Yes I know and after much reading the dates of the DAVIDSONS in Eden don't co-inside with the DAVIDSON's in other places.
As I said it was a family story and I never trust family stories.
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Where on earth did the information about the family being whalers originate?
I treat all family stories with a great deal of caution.....bit like online trees :P
Wasn't James a farmer in Gippsland?
Cando
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Perhaps Hannah was the whaler? ;)
In which case she may have been in New Zealand in the 1830s and working on ships to fund her missionary work in the Far North?
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After James and Hannah left Hobart they bought land in Gippsland and farmed - Yes.
I think some of the distant family still live there - I remember visiting them when I was a child and getting to feed a new calf.
I think the DAVIDSON name has just been picked up and the shipwright and the going to sea by James has been implied to be whaling.
I had a lovely hour reading about whaling history though so all is not lost.
Just got the red post. Hurworth - thank you so much I needed that laugh.
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Probable burial for Hannah's parents - from National Burial Index for England & Wales
William INGRAM, buried Beccles, 14 May 1846 (thus b abt 1772
Ann INGRAM, 88, buried at Beccles, 20 March 1857 (thus b abt 1769)
A transcription from Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911 gives Hannah's mother's name as Amy - probably wrong transcription
Hannah INGRAM, baptised 07 Dec 1806, St Michael's Beccles.
Father's first name(s) William
Mother's first name(s) Amy
Possible marriage for Hannah's parents - from Suffolk Marriage Index Transcription
24 Jan 1791 at Beccles, William INGRAM, Ann LANE, both single
Can someone PM me re the public tree with the documents attached, please. I can't find it. :-[
Judith
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Going on the idea that family stories are just family stories I have ignored the story above. TasLincs have a few Davidsons arriving in the right time frame.
One on the Tropic in January 1838 says Mr and Mrs Davidson and a few lines further down 'and family'
Mr and Mrs arriving on the Eamont in May 1840. No names given.
These are the only 2 in any relevant time frame.
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Does anyone think this is a co-incidence.
I have just found an article that is pretty close to the entry for James DAVIDSON in the book of Cando's mums. VICTORIA AND IT'S METROPOLIS.
The entry in the book states:- "Prior to this he had undergone much hardshop, having been wrecked in the brig Caroline Leslie in Lagoon Bay."
http://oceans1.customer.netspace.net.au/tas-wrecks.html
Caroline. Barque, 157 tons. Lbd 74-9 x 21-8 x 5 ft. Built at Chittagong, India, 1821; reg. Hobart 7/1830, 1/1838, 14/1842. Ashore, wrecked, in a gale at Lagoon Bay on the Forestier Peninsular, Tasmania, 2 October 1843. No lives lost. On 10 December 1839, under Captain Edward Woodin, stranded off Swan Island, Tasmania, while on a voyage from Hobart for Melbourne; refloated after part of her cargo was discharged and continued on her voyage. [TS1]
and this
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28650264?searchTerm=Davidson%20brig%20caroline&searchLimits=
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If you look at newspaper reports in 1843 there are two brigs called Caroline.
The one that sank:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/36234863/3610344
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8754171?searchTerm=brig%20caroline&searchLimits=l-state=Tasmania|||l-decade=184|||l-year=1843|||l-month=10
The other was still sailing in December:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2951694?searchTerm=brig%20caroline&searchLimits=l-state=Tasmania|||l-decade=184|||l-year=1843|||l-month=12
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Strange entry https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ I wonder who this Hannah INGRAM married in 1837
Hannah INGRAM, Newcastle, GRO Vol 18 pg 144
"The district Newcastle is not a valid district, or a known variant of a valid district. "
JM
Found the matching entries for this under Volume 17, with this helpful Postem:
"This is Josiah Pankhurst (not Parkhurst) who married Hannah Ingram in Wolstanton. She is listed under Vol 18, page 144 rather than Vol 17"
Hannah Pankhurst widow of Josiah died in 1847 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4K6-826