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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: amielou86 on Tuesday 04 April 17 20:10 BST (UK)

Title: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Tuesday 04 April 17 20:10 BST (UK)
Hi guys!

Looking for suggestions or help as this one is turning me grey!!

I'm looking to travel back from my 3 x Great Grandfather, William Ambrose. His surname is causing me massive problems! I've grown up with it as Cutlan. My 2 x GGFather was Cutlan. However, on William's marriage in 1876 it's Kirtland. On his death registry it's Cutland.

SO.... Ive done a free BMD search of ALL William Ambrose born between 1850 and 1860. Nothing. Tried again with just William A. Nothing....

I'm going mad 😂

All I have from marriage certificate is his father's name was Job...

Anyone bored and wants a go or anyone got any more suggestions I can try?! Please!
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: bevj on Tuesday 04 April 17 20:13 BST (UK)
Where, please?

Bev
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: jacquelineve on Tuesday 04 April 17 20:43 BST (UK)

Was his marriage at Cardiff Dec qtr 1876 (William Ambrose Kirtland)

Remember not everyone could read + write back then...so name written as pronounced.

Jackie
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 04 April 17 20:51 BST (UK)
Hi along with the marriage in Cardiff, did they have a son William Ambrose KUTLAND Sept qtr 1881 Cardiff 11a 309 mmn Baker
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 04 April 17 21:01 BST (UK)
Hi again, ok Mary Jane CUTLEN remarries a Thomas Hill Dec qtr 1889 Cardiff 11a 545 3 CUTLAN stepchildren Annie 11 Wiliam A 9 Richard H 7
Census Ref RG12/4403/135/9
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: PrawnCocktail on Tuesday 04 April 17 21:06 BST (UK)
Previous thread here : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=581751.0 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=581751.0)
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 04 April 17 21:17 BST (UK)
A sad end, reported in the Western Mail, 24 May 1883
DEATH FROM LOCK-JAW AT CARDIFF.
A man named William Cutland died at the Cardiff Infirmary on Wednesday morning from lock-jaw, which had resulted from some injuries he sustained to one of his hands while at work in one of the Rumney Moor brickworks a few weeks previously. He had had the wounded hand dressed two or three times, and had been residing at his house, Bailey-back, Rumney, when he became alarmingly ill. He was then conveyed to the Infirmary, where, as stated, he died from lock-jaw on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Tuesday 04 April 17 21:53 BST (UK)
Hi all!

Thank you for all your replies! I've managed to trace all the above, everything from his marriage in 1876.

It was the death notice I found that let.me trace them to Bailey Bach cottages in 1881.... surname written as Cattland  on that one!!

But I'm glad you reminded me of that actually so I can go again from that census that he was born in Leicestershire.  There is a death entry for a Job Kirkland in Leicestershire in 1857 so that helps a bit.

Fresh search of Leicestershire again I think!!!!
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 04 April 17 22:06 BST (UK)
The Job who died in 1857 was only 24.

   
KIRKLAND, JOB    Age   24 
GRO Reference: 1857  M Quarter in LEICESTER  Volume 07A  Page 150

Is the above likely to be William's father?
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Tuesday 04 April 17 22:29 BST (UK)
Possible. Would've made William 2 when he died
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: JAKnighton on Thursday 06 April 17 18:03 BST (UK)
Have you considered that his name at birth might have been Ambrose William instead of William Ambrose. I have a few cases in my tree where people with unusual/antiquated first names, Ambrose included, have decided to swap the order of their christian names.
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Thursday 06 April 17 19:02 BST (UK)
No I hadn't thought of that, but so simple! My grandfather actually does this!

Will try this now! Thank you!
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: iolaus on Thursday 06 April 17 20:28 BST (UK)
Another thing may have been he added the Ambrose later - either when he was baptised or later.  My great grandfather I always believed was Arthur Frank, that's the name on his death certificate and he used his middle name.

When I found his birth and baptism records he was just Arthur, however he had a twin brother Frank who died when they were 3 months old.  Whether he decided himself to add his brother's name when he was older or his parents did it I don't know
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Wednesday 12 April 17 18:08 BST (UK)
** UPDATE **

I have found the marriage certificate I knew I had.

On it, William lists his father as Job Kirkland  (still alive), a Brick Maker.

And Mary Jane BAKER  (aged 19) lists her father as Joseph Baker, deceased, a Labourer.

Had a look and can't find anything for Joseph so I've ordered what I believe to be Mary's birth certificate. Fingers crossed!!

I've also looked as their oldest daughter Lily was born October 1876 (marriage is  December 1876)....
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: iolaus on Wednesday 12 April 17 20:43 BST (UK)
There's a Job Kirkland who dies in 1879 aged 58 who may be a possibility for his father
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 12 April 17 21:01 BST (UK)
I was just looking at that one! There's a piece in the paper

Leicester Journal 21 March 1879

On the 13th. inst.,. at 1, Victoria-street, Mr. Job kirkland, aged 58 years.

He's buried at Welford Road Cemetery

all in the grave

Q   2082
KIRKLAND   JOB   1879   MAR   17   58   VICTORIA STREET   SAINT MARY
HACKETT   PHOEBE   1884   JUL   2   56   WHARF STREET   SAINT MARGARET
KIRKLAND   ANN   1894   DEC   17   75   VICTORIA STREET   SAINT MARY

HUDSON   JOHN   1914   JUL   3   72   COUNTESS STREET   LEICESTER
HUDSON   SARAH ANN   1919   DEC   9   74   54 HOWARD ROAD   LEICESTER


Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 12 April 17 21:04 BST (UK)
Hi that Job Kirkland aged 50 in 1871 occ Cordwainer.
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 12 April 17 21:10 BST (UK)
Just followed him through and found them, his occupation doesn't change.

Tried all sorts in Wales too but at a loss ???
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Wednesday 12 April 17 21:51 BST (UK)
It's really starting to pickle my brain now! Lol.

William would've only been 15 for the 1871 census so in all likelyhood still with parents wherever they were.

My only other option is that although Job is a proper name in its own right, it may have been his middle name or an abbreviation for something like Joseph? I am well and truly stumped!
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: iolaus on Wednesday 12 April 17 22:28 BST (UK)
If he went into service or an apprenticeship he may well have moved out of his home
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Thursday 13 April 17 07:13 BST (UK)
I thought this as I found a William Kirkland in 1871 as an apprentice brick layer in an adjacent county from where he said he was born.  Thought this may have been him as he was working a brick maker when he died.... but the marriage certificate lists him as a farm labourer  ???
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: iolaus on Thursday 13 April 17 11:16 BST (UK)
If he didn't complete his apprenticeship he could well have gone (?back to?) to being a farm labourer - I wouldn't rule it out - or couldn't find a job bricklaying so was working as a farm labourer at that time.

I think my husband is down on one of the kids birth certificates as doing furniture removals - which is true, but he only did it for a short period of time - so anyone looking in generations to come will be met with a random job because it won't be on any of the censuses etc
Title: Re: Help Desperately Needed to knock down massive brick wall!!
Post by: amielou86 on Thursday 13 April 17 17:22 BST (UK)
Yes, my kids are the same, I have different jobs on every one of theirs lol.

Think I just have to keep persisting!!