RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Luke ??? on Tuesday 21 March 17 20:32 GMT (UK)
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I (sort of) know his employer's name, 'Mr. Bolli', and his actual occupation, Glass Blower.
Where would I start with that information?
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What do you know about him?
I'm assuming from your post that you've seen his occupation on a census form? Is that where you got the Mr Bolli information from?
My suggestions would be to try historic newspapers and see if you can find a mention of either your ancestor or this Mr Bolli. It might be that he placed adverts in the paper which could give you some clues.
He might also be mentioned in trade directories. Perhaps they might be at Birmingham archives?
http://www.libraryofbirmingham.com/archives
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If he is in the 1911 census then he may have entered the firms name. What is his name?
Stan
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What do you know about him?
I'm assuming from your post that you've seen his occupation on a census form? Is that where you got the Mr Bolli information from?
My suggestions would be to try historic newspapers and see if you can find a mention of either your ancestor or this Mr Bolli. It might be that he placed adverts in the paper which could give you some clues.
He might also be mentioned in trade directories. Perhaps they might be at Birmingham archives?
http://www.libraryofbirmingham.com/archives
His name is Frank Carroll. He was born on 18/08/1885. I got the Mr Bolli info from his army service record dated 17/10/1900.
Frank lived on New John Street, and Mr Bolli lived on Pritchett Street, so they were pretty close to each other.
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If he is in the 1911 census then he may have entered the firms name. What is his name?
Stan
I don't think Frank Carroll, my ancestor or Mr Bolli is in the 1911 Census, and I've tried looking.
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There's a thread about the Bimingham glass blowers on this page where one employer's name mentioned is "Bowly"
link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jrc/
P.S. Have just seen a list of company names in London Gazette where it's shown as "Bowley & Co", Birmingham, glass cutters.
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Try posting on the Birmingham Forum website. I've found it very useful.
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If he is in the 1911 census then he may have entered the firms name. What is his name?
Stan
I don't think Frank Carroll, my ancestor or Mr Bolli is in the 1911 Census, and I've tried looking.
Is Frank perhaps living with his "aunt" Minnie Brittain in 1911? She would be his wife's aunt I think, on her second marriage. There is an Albert Carroll aged 6 there as well.
Or is that the wrong guy altogether?
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If he is in the 1911 census then he may have entered the firms name. What is his name?
Stan
I don't think Frank Carroll, my ancestor or Mr Bolli is in the 1911 Census, and I've tried looking.
Is Frank perhaps living with his "aunt" Minnie Brittain in 1911? She would be his wife's aunt I think, on her second marriage. There is an Albert Carroll aged 6 there as well.
Or is that the wrong guy altogether?
It's not him. This Frank was born in Sheffield, unlike mine.
Although coincidentally he did have a son called Albert, born in the same year.
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Who did your Frank marry?
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His name is Frank Carroll. He was born on 18/08/1885. I got the Mr Bolli info from his army service record dated 17/10/1900.
Frank lived on New John Street, and Mr Bolli lived on Pritchett Street, so they were pretty close to each other.
Hi
I had another look, and I think that these are all the same people:
Franciscus Carroll born 18/8/1885, bapt 12/9/1885 Birmingham
Parents Jacobi Carroll and Helenae Reating Carroll
FHL film no. 1999524
(siblings seem to have mother as Riding/Reading and father as Cahill, and possible births and the 1881 census fit)
1891 census
Francis Carroll 6
(parents James and Helen)
1901 census
Frank Carroll porter bottler
(living with married sister Anne Hicks and their brother Richard)
1902
Richard Carroll marries, Frank Carroll is witness
1903
Frank Carroll marries Nellie Bumford
Witnesses Harry Davies and Ellen Bumford
1911 census
Frank Carroll 29
(living as "nephew" of Minnie Brittain 38, and with Albert Carroll aged 6)
Backtracking on Minnie:
1901 census
Minnie Elliott 29 wid
Mrs Rumford 33 wid sister
Nellie Rumford 15 niece
Harry Davies 16 brother
1891 census
Minnie Elliott 20
(married to Harry)
Mar qtr 1890 marriage
Minnie Davies
Harry Elliott
1881 census
Nellie Davis 14
Minnie Davis 10
(sisters, parents Frederick and Ann)
Everything is Birmingham for locality/birthplace.
So, even though the the 1911 census seems to have Frank Carroll born in Sheffield (and the image is a bit confusing) I still think it is him because Aunt Minnie Brittain was originally Minnie Davies and sister to Nellie Davies who married William Bunford. They were the parents of Nellie Bumford who married Frank Carroll. And I suspect that the witnesses to the marriage were Nellie's uncle Harry Davies and her mother Nellie/Ellen Bunford.
The surnames are all a bit over the place: Bumford/Bunford/Rumford; Davis/Davies; and I suspect Carroll/Cahill. But I think it all holds together.
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His name is Frank Carroll. He was born on 18/08/1885. I got the Mr Bolli info from his army service record dated 17/10/1900.
Frank lived on New John Street, and Mr Bolli lived on Pritchett Street, so they were pretty close to each other.
Hi
I had another look, and I think that these are all the same people:
Franciscus Carroll born 18/8/1885, bapt 12/9/1885 Birmingham
Parents Jacobi Carroll and Helenae Reating Carroll
FHL film no. 1999524
(siblings seem to have mother as Riding/Reading and father as Cahill, and possible births and the 1881 census fit)
1891 census
Francis Carroll 6
(parents James and Helen)
1901 census
Frank Carroll porter bottler
(living with married sister Anne Hicks and their brother Richard)
1902
Richard Carroll marries, Frank Carroll is witness
1903
Frank Carroll marries Nellie Bumford
Witnesses Harry Davies and Ellen Bumford
1911 census
Frank Carroll 29
(living as "nephew" of Minnie Brittain 38, and with Albert Carroll aged 6)
Backtracking on Minnie:
1901 census
Minnie Elliott 29 wid
Mrs Rumford 33 wid sister
Nellie Rumford 15 niece
Harry Davies 16 brother
1891 census
Minnie Elliott 20
(married to Harry)
Mar qtr 1890 marriage
Minnie Davies
Harry Elliott
1881 census
Nellie Davis 14
Minnie Davis 10
(sisters, parents Frederick and Ann)
Everything is Birmingham for locality/birthplace.
So, even though the the 1911 census seems to have Frank Carroll born in Sheffield (and the image is a bit confusing) I still think it is him because Aunt Minnie Brittain was originally Minnie Davies and sister to Nellie Davies who married William Bunford. They were the parents of Nellie Bumford who married Frank Carroll. And I suspect that the witnesses to the marriage were Nellie's uncle Harry Davies and her mother Nellie/Ellen Bunford.
The surnames are all a bit over the place: Bumford/Bunford/Rumford; Davis/Davies; and I suspect Carroll/Cahill. But I think it all holds together.
All of the information corroborates so well that the two Carrolls have to be the same ones I am related to.
However, there are a number of issues.
1) Frank's youngest son Frank Jr. is missing from the census. He was 4.
2) Frank's wife Nellie is missing from the census, even though she clearly grew up with her Aunty Minnie and was still married to Frank.
3) Frank Sr.'s occupation is totally wrong and doesn't fit with his previous occupations of Glass Blower and Pottery Bottler. Unless it says "council worker" on Frank Jr's birth certificate, I will remain sceptical.
4) Frank Sr. was born at 12 Court, 4 House, Brearley Street in Birmingham, nowhere near Sheffield.
5) Albert William was born at 45 Witton Street in Birmingham on 10 January 1905. Again, nowhere near Sheffield.
EDIT:
I've asked my Nanna and she said that the name Minnie rings a bell. But she said she'll think about it as her maiden name and married name didn't conjure up any stories.
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I think it is Maggie who was born in Sheffield :-)
1911
Minnie Brittain 38 wife
Alice Elliott 19 dau
Maggie Brittain 13 stepdau
Frank Carroll 29 nephew
Albert Carroll 6 nephew
1903 marriage
Minnie Matilda Elliott and John Thomas Brittain
Fathers: George Frederick Davies and John Brittain
1901 census
Providence Road, Sheffield
Maggie Brittain 3 gdau Sheffield
(Grandparents John and Hannah Brittain)
1891
Carr Road, Sheffield
John Brittain, wife Hannah + family
1881
Walsall
John T Brittain 16
(Parents John and Hannah Brittain)
In the marriage details John T's father occupation is leather worker and he is bridle cutter or similar in census.
Maggie's mother seems to have been Margaret Collett, with a marriage in 1897. I think she died the same quarter as Maggie was born.
Providence Street and Carr Road both look to be the same area of Sheffield as Duncombe (Duncum) Street, which was the odd birth address on the 1911 census.
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I think John Thomas was back in Walsall in 1901.
John Brittan boarder aged 38 leather cutter Walsall
It says he is single, but the address is 3 Great Colmore Street, and that is the address on the marriage to Minnie.
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I think John Thomas was back in Walsall in 1901.
John Brittan boarder aged 38 leather cutter Walsall
It says he is single, but the address is 3 Great Colmore Street, and that is the address on the marriage to Minnie.
Thank you for clearing up the Sheffield issue.
However there still stands the issue of Frank and Nellie being missing from the household in 1911.