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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Harinz on Monday 20 March 17 20:39 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm searching for information for my Aunt regarding her father. Details are scarce but his name was Louis Leader and he was, we believe, born in Manchester in December of 1914 and died in May of 1997. His mother was Helen?? Lipman and he was of Russian decent. Any information would be greatly received.
Regards,
Hari Navarro
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Looking at freebmd.
The leader lipman marriage was 1912 and she was Fanny.
He was abraham
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Looking at freebmd.
The leader lipman marriage was 1912 and she was Fanny.
He was abraham
From what I can see just prior to marriage Fanny Lipman was already associated with a Leader family in Prestwich?
Keyboard86
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The 1912 marriage between Abraham Leader and Fanny Lipman was at Manchester Kahal Chassidim Synagogue.
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There is also this marriage
Louis Leder and Rachel Lipman in 1910 Manchester Holy Law Beth Aron
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Hi again, Fanny Leader born 13th March 1891 died September qtr 1972 Bolton 10b 1430
Keyboard86
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There is also this marriage
Louis Leder and Rachel Lipman in 1910 Manchester Holy Law Beth Aron
Louis Leader b. c. 1888 Russia married Rachel Lipman b.c.1886 Russia
Rachel had a sister Fanny Lipman b.c.1891 Russia (Louis called Fanny his step sister -think she should have been described as sister in law
there were a few Leader/Lipman births
Birth reg's freeBMD
all mother's maiden name Lipman
Louis Leader reg Dec qtr 1914 Prestwich (death reg May 1997 Manchester gives his date of birth as 7 Nov 1914)
Marion Leader Sept 1912 Prestwich
Rachel Leader Sept 1913 prestwich
Jack Leader Dec qtr 1915 Manchester
Eli Leader Dec 1916 Prestwich
you need baptism or birth certificates to be certain which parentage the Leader/Lipman children have
Suz
Suz
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Louis Leader married Mary Berkovitch Mar qtr 1940 Manchester
26 Jun 1948 Arriving at Southampton England on board the Winchester castle and having departed from Cape Town South Africa were:
Louis Leader age 33 Occ Hairdresser address 88 Bury Now Road Manchester 8
with Mary Leader age 36 Housewife and child Leile Leader age 2
Jack Leader b 4/11/1915 left Liverpool Lancs on board the Carinthea on 7 April 1960 for Montreal Canada with wife Freda b 11/3/19 and son Louis
Suz
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There is a death for a Rachel Leader born about 1886(2 Howard Street, Manchester 8) at Crumpsall Hospital, Manchestervin 1956. Administration granted to Leslie Leader Clothing Manufacturer
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Leslie Leader born 1922 mother's maiden name Lipman registered Cheetham, Manchester.
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Hi in addition to above return voyage :-
Mr L Leader 32
Mrs M Leader 38
Miss L Leader 2
Of 164 Bury New Road Manchester
And a Mrs R Landsman 34 Miss M Landsman 7 and Miss G J Landsman 4 of 83, Bury New Road Manchester departed Southampton for Cape, South Africa on the Carnavon Castle 28th October 1947
Keyboard86
EDIT for whatever reason the two families above plus a Mr G N Lane 26 Mrs D M V Lane 28 and Master L J Lane 1 of 21, Copenhagen Road, Gillingham, Kent have been bracketed together?
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This is so helpful thank you all... given me a lot to go on. Thank you for making the effort.
Hari Navarro.
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Hi just to make you aware the Miss M and Miss G J Landsman have mmn Leader on the outbound voyage to South Africa 1947
Keyboard86
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deleted - wrong man
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Managed to compile a much clearer picture thanks to everyone's help here. I'm now trying to focus in on Leila Leader (daughter of Louis and Mary (nee: Bercovich))... if these details are correct then she is the half sister to my Aunt (for whom I'm doing this research). So far all I have is her birth date 1946 and that she is listed as a passenger (a misspelling of her name as Leile I think) alongside Louis and Mary on a voyage to Southampton out off Cape Town SA. My Aunt knows very little about this side of her family and is hoping that some still survive so that she can attempt tentative contact. Thanks again to all.
Hari Navarro
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Hi again, do my replies 10 and 12 make sense therefore?
Keyboard86
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Hi,
I think these are the correct family but I'm not sure why they are returning to UK from SA in 1947. I know Louis was born and lived in Manchester but have know idea why he then left the country... perhaps it was just a vacation?? Maybe that is why they are grouped together with other families. I had heard a rumor that Louis Leaders daughter had died... but the only child I can find - 'Leila' - appears to be still alive, though I can find no confirmation for this.
Hari
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Hi in addition to above return voyage :-
Mr L Leader 32
Mrs M Leader 38
Miss L Leader 2
Of 164 Bury New Road Manchester
And a Mrs R Landsman 34 Miss M Landsman 7 and Miss G J Landsman 4 of 83, Bury New Road Manchester departed Southampton for Cape, South Africa on the Carnavon Castle 28th October 1947
Keyboard86
EDIT for whatever reason the two families above plus a Mr G N Lane 26 Mrs D M V Lane 28 and Master L J Lane 1 of 21, Copenhagen Road, Gillingham, Kent have been bracketed together?
Was Rachel Landsman the sister of Louis Leader??
Birth reg FreeBMD
Rachel Leader
Sept qtr 1913
Mother's maiden name Lipman
Prestwich
Marriage FreebMD
Harry Landsman
Rachel leader
Sept qtr 1935
Manchester N
8d 1701
did Harry died before the trip to South Africa??
Death reg FreeBMD
Harry Landsman
age 37
Manchester
8d 273
Probate
Harry Landsman of 33 Dovedale Avenue Prestwich Lancashire died 21 July 1944 in N Hospital Cheetham Manchester
Administration Manchester 22 Sept to Rachel Landsman widow £355 5s 2d
these look like possible birth reg's for the Landsman children who went to south Africa
Marlene Landsman
mother's maiden name Leader
Jun 1940 Manchester
Gloria J Landsman mother's maiden name Leader
Mar qtr 19 43
Heywood Lancs
on the trip out to South Africa the Leaders gave address as 164 Bury New Road and Lois was a salesman their intended future country of residence was England
the Landsman's ( possibly Rachel was a widow at that time) gave address as 83 Bury new Road
intended country of future residence S Africa
but 17 Sept 1948 leaving Durban South Africa for southampton
Rachel Landsman 35 Housewife
Marlene Landsman 8
Gloria J Landsman 5
address going to 88(or 86) Bury New Road
future country of residence South Africa
so did the Leaders travel with widowed Rachel Landsman to South Africa hoping for her to make a fresh start??
And maybe things didn't work out for them??
It might be worth obtaining electoral rolls for these years for Bury New Road
Suz
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Thank you so much... a lot of information to process :) . I have Louis Leader (jr) 1814-1997 being the son of Rachel Leader nee: Lipman. But perhaps he also had a sister named Rachel (Landsman), the birth-date fits as she is a couple of years older than Louis. also your theory about why they would travel as a group to SA makes sense (will have to try and confirm). Still no trace of Leila Leader though, I've been searching grave and death notices for the Manchester area and can find no trace. Perhaps she is still alive and the reports of her passing were unfounded. The hunt goes on... really appreciate the effort you have gone too to help suzard.
Hari.
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I can't find any further information on Rachel Landsman or her children Marlene and Gloria J
Suz
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Hi again from what I can see possibly Harry Landsman was born 25th December 1906 and Rachel Landsman b 5th July 1913 marries a Michael Bloom September qtr 1950 Leeds 2c 1015?
Keyboard86
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Ive just found a link to both sisters (Gloria Black & Marlene Livingston) but they give the mother as Rachel Bloom (born Leader), possible she remarried after death of first husband. But gives grandfathers name as Abraham Leader... so maybe they are not connected, directly at least.
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;D See my post above
Keyboard86
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Wait so I think Rachel Leader (Lipman) has a sister Fanny (Lipman) who it appears married a Abraham Leader so maybe its a case of two brothers marrying two sisters?? Confused much :)
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Sorry keyboard86 I was replying as your message came in... interesting
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Hi if you have input or wish to purchase credits for the 1939 census I think that you will find Abraham/Fanny/Louis were in Manchester?
Keyboard86
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Thanks for the advice... I'll do that but I'm try to zero in on Louis' daughter Leila... she is the direct link (half sister) that my aunt has been searching for. If I can find her, or her children, then hopefully all of the rest of the family line will fall into place. Its frustrating that apart from the SA passenger list I cannot seem to pick up her trail.
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OK so without divulging too much how does Leila became half sister to your aunt?
Keyboard86
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My Aunt was born Nicolette Leader and Louis was her biological father. My grandmother, Nicolette's mother was not married to Louis and their relationship ended shortly after her birth. Louis acknowledged my aunt as his but she was shortly afterward adopted. This was when contacted petered out and she grew up not knowing much at all about that side of her family. Now all these years later she is very keen to find out just what happened to Louis and his child/ children.
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I wondered if you could find Gloria J or Marlene Landsman -who seem to have married they may know more about their cousin Leila
Suz
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I've messaged someone whom I think is related to Gloria and Marlene in the hope that they are in fact cousins to Leila. Information is scant regards Louis Leader his wife Mary (Lipman) and daughter Leila, there is a bit out there regarding other Leaders... ie: an Abraham Leader who married a Fanny Lipman... so I'm leaning toward Abraham being a brother to Louis and Fanny being a sister to Mary. Hoping that contacting the Abraham branch will shed light on Louis and his elusive clan.