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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: DonnaMarie1982 on Friday 17 March 17 01:12 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
If anyone could help me unravel this it would be much appreciated.
Names involved Randulphi Poynton (deceased) of Norton on the Moors.
Meare Poynton his daughter.
Jane or Janae Poynton his wife.
Many thanks,
Donna
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Testam(en)tu(m) Ranulphi Poynton dum vixit p(ar)ochie
Norton in Le Mores def(uncti) p(er) Meare Poynton filia(m)
unu(m) Execut(orum) iurat(am) ut supra &c. Reservat(a) p(otes)tate
Jane Poynton Relict(e) alteri Exec(utorum) cu(m) ven(er)it &c.
The will of Ralph Poynton, whilst living of the parish in Norton-in-the-Moors, deceased, by Meare Poynton, the daughter, one of the executors, sworn as above etc. Power reserved to Jane Poynton, the relict, the other executor, when she will come etc.
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Meare was a son not a daughter
Myrdon
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In the actual will of Randall Poynton 1625, 'Meare Poynton' is definitely given as 'my sonne' at least half a dozen times. He inherits leases on parcels of land.
Randall Poynton is of Baddeley in the parish of Norton in the Moors.
Meare Poynton is mentioned twice in this clip from the will - the last time as executor along with Randall's wife Jane.
(I have a copy of this will as one of my ancestors married a Poynton - unfortunately not mentioned in this will though).
Is it possible the word squeezed in at the end of the line in the probate could be son instead of daughter Bookbox?
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I have done a lot of scouring of records from Norton in the Moors Donna.
I don't know how much you have done.
Manorial documents for Norton in the Moors are not easy to search as different parts of land belonged to different manors.
I can let you have some more information if you're interested.
There is an interesting item about leases in the Rent Rolls for Norton in the Moors in 1608 for Richard Meare and Randulph Poynton at 'Badyley', and John Meare is also mentioned.
I can send you the clipping if you want.
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Goldie, did you see the date of the original request and first reply?
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Is it possible the word squeezed in at the end of the line in the probate could be son instead of daughter Bookbox?
Yes indeed. The contraction obscures the word ending and therefore the gender, but the word that follows is masculine, unu(m). Unfortunately I too hastily took my cue from Donna's first post, which refers to Meare as a daughter. Apologies to all.
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Goldie, did you see the date of the original request and first reply?
Did I miss something HD? I don't understand this comment. Probably me! :)
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Goldie, did you see the date of the original request and first reply?
Did I miss something HD? I don't understand this comment. Probably me! :)
I thought you may have been unaware that you were writing informative posts on a near three-year-old thread, when it seemed probable (to me) that the OP will never read them. I simply thought you may have wanted to save your time - at least until the OP had revisited the thread.
I apologize that my understanding of the situation was wrong.
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Oh I see now.
No you're right HD. I didn't notice the original post was from 2017.
I guess because myrdon updated it with their comment a couple of days ago, I just carried the thread on.
Ah well. we seem to have set the record straight now about Meare Poynton - just in case the original poster, or anybody else who happens across this thread, reads it at some point.
It doesn't look as if the OP has been on the site again since they put on that post.
Thanks for trying to help and save me time.
Regards
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No you're right HD. I didn't notice the original post was from 2017.
I guess because myrdon updated it with their comment a couple of days ago, I just carried the thread on.
It is greatly to be wished that people who resurrect an ancient thread would preface their remarks with something like: I realise this is an old thread but for the record I would like to say that...
Ah well. we seem to have set the record straight now about Meare Poynton - just in case the original poster, or anybody else who happens across this thread, reads it at some point.
It has been worth it for this.
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I have done a lot of scouring of records from Norton in the Moors Donna.
I don't know how much you have done.
Manorial documents for Norton in the Moors are not easy to search as different parts of land belonged to different manors.
I can let you have some more information if you're interested.
There is an interesting item about leases in the Rent Rolls for Norton in the Moors in 1608 for Richard Meare and Randulph Poynton at 'Badyley', and John Meare is also mentioned.
I can send you the clipping if you want.
So Sorry Goldie, life got really hectic around this time and I missed some replies on here it seems! I'd love to see any further information on Poyntons and Meares, thank you so much for your reply!
With old posts its still nice to see replies as they are useful for other readers and returning researchers to pick up on.
Donna x
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Welcome back Donna!
Some background.
As I said in my reply #4 on this post, there are various lots of the manorial records for Norton in the Moors depending on who owned which bits of land.
Some are at Staffordshire RO, some at William Salt library in Stafford, some at Birmingham library, and some at Keele University Special collections.
As I don’t live in England, I had to try and do what I could at a distance.
Staffordshire RO charge for them to do research on your behalf.
The records at Birmingham are unobtainable unless you actually go into the library. No copying service, and no research service. (In other words no service at all!)
I found transcripts on-line of some of the records at Keele where the records from places withiin Norton in the Moors come under Tunstall Manor, and found the family I was interested in, so I mostly went down that route, getting a friend to go to Keele to take hundreds of photographs!
I did find however, that some of the records at Birmingham had been filmed by familysearch, and those films are free to view on-line at an LDS library.
Court rolls 1485 - 1748 film number 8090199 (Item 8 ), and 8220354 (Item 1).
This is the clip I remembered in the Rent Roll for 1608
A transcription (hope I'm not treading on your toes)
Badyley
Richard Meare and
Randulph Poynton for the ] xij s iiij d
moyty of one Messuage called ]
the hall of Badyley and the ] ij capons
moytie of one cottage there
John Meare for the other moyty ] xij s iiijd
of the said messuage Cottage ]
and landes thereto belongyinge ] ij capons
Randulph Poynton for an Acre of land
in Haddfeild(?) als the ferme by lease ] vj d
There is a Baddeley Green now at Norton in the Moors.
The ‘capons’ will be hens. I have an ancestor who lived in Derbyshire and had to provide a capon “sound and well carved” a year as part of his rent.
I'm guessing either Richard Meare, or John, were the father of Jana Meare married to Randall Poynton, but can't see a baptism for her. As you know, the early Norton registers are in a poor state, with missing years.
There are lots of mentions of 'Meare' people in these Rent Rolls.
I haven't seen any more Poynton names, but then I have not checked them all thoroughly - as I say, I was looking for the name Lane. They would be worth looking at if you haven't already seen them.
Happy hunting!
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Hi Goldie,
Thank you so much for the information I will sit down and absorb it all shortly! Just working on a few things at once as usual :)
I've visited the William Salt Library before to view a pedigree they had in their possession. But wasn't aware of the rent rolls - they aren't a document I'm familiar with so will have to have a good look.
I do live in England so please let me know if I can be of any help.
Donna
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The National Archives (at Kew) have a 'Manorial Documents Register'
These are the two pages for Norton in the Moors where you can see what documents are kept at all the different depositories.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F256161
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F256277
These are the entries for Tunstall manor, under which some parts of Norton in the Moors came - not Baddeley as far as I remember, but may come in useful.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F256222
It's always exciting when you find a mention of your ancestors, and the rents they paid for their holdings. It gives their lives so much more meaning.
You'll see there are also Court rolls mentioned, which are not to do with the rents on pieces of land, but any other village business which needed reporting on. Decisions about fines for minor offences were made by a 'jury' of 12 men, and you may find that your ancestors were considered respectable, responsible people to be named as one of the jurors, or they may be called in front of the court and charged to pay a fine for fighting, selling ale on a Sunday, letting stock graze 'on the Lord's waste', or any number of other offences. ;)
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in Haddfeild(?) als the ferme by lease
A suggestion: ...hawdfeild al(ia)s the ffenne...
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Thanks HD.
I've been going through the umpteen images I have.
This is a very interesting one for John Meare.
Not only does it state he was a Blacksmith, (Blacksmythe), but also says he holds the land by the right of his wife, who is deceased. She was Elizabeth, daughter of James Heeley deceased.
Gosh, I wish I could find some of my shadowy wives like this!
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Thanks HD.
......
Gosh, I wish I could find some of my shadowy wives like this!
Me too although in my case the excuse is not that of centuries ago....my Irish gt grandfather who as my mother used to say 'is an international man of mystery'.
Perhaps about time I did some more sleuthing. :) :D
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Here's a clutch of Meares as 'homagers' - paying homage to the Lord of the Manor, at the Baron Court of 10th May 1603.
I see Hugh Meare is a Smith, perhaps the father of John the Blacksmith?
'Ession' in the middle paragraph were those that didn't appear at the court, (as they were obliged to do), but sent their apologies.
I see James Heeley, the father of John Meare's wife is also listed as a homager.
Bottom of the first column, 'Jacobus Heelie'.
It looks like he died sometime between this 1603 date, and the other clip from 1608 where he is mentioned as Elizabeth's father, and is deceased.