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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: dollard on Wednesday 27 July 05 23:01 BST (UK)
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In June I made an genealogical trip to Down. Two of the old Presbyterian churches I visited, Dundonald and Comber, don't have graveyards. I notice a number of other old Presbyterian churches don't have graveyards either. Where did they bury the dead?
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Hi dollard :)
here is a link to the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast. I'm sure they will be able to advise you on the burial question.
Regards
Darcy
http://www.presbyterianireland.org/phsi/
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I visited the Presbyterian Historical Society when I was in Belfast but I didn't get an answer to this question.
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Most likely Presbyterians would have buried in neighbouring Church of Ireland grave yards. Also, older burying-grounds would have been shared with Roman Catholics, so any old grave yards in the area could be possibilities. Becomes difficult when you start looking for headstones, only the richer families would have had one, many have become weathered through time, and many have been removed and buried as part of restoration programmes.
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Hi again Dollard,
I'm sorry you didn't receive the help you needed in Belfast.
As you will know burials often do not appear in Presbyterian Registers. I have had some success by checking the records of the nearest Church of Ireland for both marriages and burials.
I was able to find the graves I was looking for but I expect it was easier for me as I am a native of Northern Ireland and knew exactly where to look for my family.
Good Luck with your research
Regards
Darcy
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Hi Dollard. If you could give us the names & the Year please it would help us to help you.
Anthony
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I'm looking for McCormicks in Dundonald parish and Allens in Comber parish. Both before 1900.
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In June I made an genealogical trip to Down. Two of the old Presbyterian churches I visited, Dundonald and Comber, don't have graveyards. I notice a number of other old Presbyterian churches don't have graveyards either. Where did they bury the dead?
Dollard,
Did you visit the Comber Cemetery, Newtownards Road, Comber ?
Chris
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Chris, no I didn't. Is that the large newer looking one right beside the road?
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Chris, no I didn't. Is that the large newer looking one right beside the road?
Dollard
It's on the right hand side going out of Comber before you reach the new road way heading towards Newtownards.
Chris
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Hi Dollard.
Comber 1870
Gentry & Clergy
George Allen, Unicarville.
Traders
George Allen, Tanner, Square.
Comber 1896&1900
James Allen, Steam Roller Propietor.
Mrs Allen, Unicarville.
Anthony
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Thanks Anthony. Is that from a directory?
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Yes.
Anthony
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Heres some of my index for Allens in Comber parish in case it helps you a little but not on the burials. You may know them all but here goes in case you dont. Some References will be from Ros davies website, which she protects from commercial use, visit it for more information anyway. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allan, John, Comber, T/761/19, See Http://www.proni.gov.uk/freeholders
Allen, Agnes, High Street Comber, Down: North, Comber, The Square, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, Anne, Tullyhubbert, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, Catherine A, The Square Comber, Down: North, Comber, The Square and Houses, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, David, Moneyreagh, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, David, Tullyhubbert, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, David. Comber Husband Of Mary Cochran; Father Of James B. 4 Apr 1866 & Isabella Maria B. 3 Oct 1868 & William Robert B. 27 Apr 1870 CR, See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allen, George William Graham, Unicarral Comber Co Down, Down: North, Comber, The Square, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, George, Mount, Alexander, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, George, Townparks, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, George, Trooperfield, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, Grace, High Street Comber, Down: North, Comber, 1st Presbyterian Church, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, Henry. Comber Of Ballystockart; A Miller; B.C. 1820 See ReseArcher Listed RD , Roll Call Johnburns ‘At’ Telus.Net
Allen, J. Dr J. Allen . Comber Medical Practice Established 1797, Supported By 250 Patients In 1836; Part Proprietor Of Ringneil Townland In Tullynakill In 1836 V7 P 34 , 122 OSM, See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allen, James G., Steam Roller Proprietor , See Inhabitants Street Directory Extract In OS Comber 1900 Sheet 37, Godfrey Ed
Allen, James Graham, Comber, Down: North, Comber, Square, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, James. Comber Husband Of Agnes Allen; Father Of Robert James B. 30 Nov 1868 CR, See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allen, John, Ballyloughan, D/654/A3/1X, See Http://www.proni.gov.uk/freeholders
Allen, John, Comber, D/654/A3/1N, See Http://www.proni.gov.uk/freeholders
Allen, John, Comber, D/654/A3/1Q, See Http://www.proni.gov.uk/freeholders
Allen, John, Comber, T/761/20, See Http://www.proni.gov.uk/freeholders
Allen, John,, Jr., Tullyhubbert, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, John,, Sr., Tullyhubbert, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, John,,. Comber Husband Of Sarah Mckibbin; Father Of Jane B. 6 May 1866 CR, See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allen, Lizzie, Mill Street Comber, Down: North, Comber, 1st Presbyterian Church, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, Margaret Jane. Miss Margaret Jane Allen . Comber Wife Of Samuel Burgess; Mother Of John Allen Burgess B. 1874 CR, See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allen, Mary . Miss Mary Allen . Comber Wife Of Samuel Conkey; Mother Of Eliza Jane B. 1865 & Rosanna B. 1868 CR, See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allen, Mary, Castle Street Comber, Down: North, Comber, 1st Presbyterian Church, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, Mrs., Unicarville, See Inhabitants Street Directory Extract In OS Comber 1900 Sheet 37, Godfrey Ed
Allen, Phebe, Unicawal Comber, Down: North, Comber, The Square, 1912 see http://www.proni.gov.uk/covenanters,
Allen, Rep., James, Ballyaltikilligan, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, Rep., James, Bridge, Street,, Com’, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, Susan, Castle, Lane,, Com’, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Allen, Thomas, Tullyhubbert, D/654/A3/1S, See Http://www.proni.gov.uk/freeholders
Allen, William .Comber Area A Farmer; Father Of Mrs. Eliza Robinson, A Widow, Who Married John Shaw In 1875 At Linenhall Presbyterian Church, Belfast PR, See http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/
Allen, William, Tullyhubbert, , Householder 1863, 4 Ie Griffiths V See Http://www.failteromhat.com/
Good luck. Jim
ps Have you tried Clarke gravestones of Co Down a series probably published by Ulster Historical Foundation. The UHF also has databases that include Allen surnames.
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In June I made an genealogical trip to Down. Two of the old Presbyterian churches I visited, Dundonald and Comber, don't have graveyards. I notice a number of other old Presbyterian churches don't have graveyards either. Where did they bury the dead?
Hei Dollard,
Look at Volume 5 of Graveyard Inscriptions. Comber seems to have several graveyards. How many did you visit? I am wondering about those old Churches you visited. Offhand I cannot place them and wonder if their graveyards are now lying under a carpark or another building.
Best Wishes,
Christopher
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Ballyalti....thanks for the lists of Allens in Comber. I don't see any connected to mine except for that one posting of mine you mention.
Sorry I'm so long in replying but I was in Mexico.
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Thanks Christopher. It would be nice to find a library that has Volume 5 of the gravestone inscriptions. I would love to check it. I imagine if I buy it none of mine will be in it. I visited 1st Presbyterian Church in Comber which had no graveyard and Comber Non Subscriging Pres. which had a small graveyard but the burials were fairly recent. I visited the C of I (?) church near the Memorial Gardens Square which had a large graveyard.
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Hi dollard,
I have McCormick ancestors who were in Dundonald in the 18th century.
I do not know where they are buried - but we were astonished when a gravestone for Margaret McCormick and her husband Matthew Carruthers turned up in Moneyrea (Moneyreagh) Non-Subscribing Presbyterian graveyard. I think that is about 4 miles from Dundonald.
I checked and there are no records of McCormick burials in Moneyrea
I shall split this message - I hadn't realised there was a word limit :-\
SG
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Part 2!
In the Orr Pedigree (most easily accessed through this version:
Ulster Pedigrees by Ray A. Jones 1977 Lib. of Congress Catalog Card No:77-82468)
was drawn up by Gawin Orr of Castlereagh (1756-1830).
He was an elder in Moneyrea Church, a farmer and something of a financial wizard besides being a genealogist.
He traces families in the area back to James Orr and Janet McClement who came to Ballyblack in the early years of the 17th century.
If you can go back to the generation alive in 1830 and find them in the Pedigree you can go back to the Plantation.
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3rd time lucky?
The first McCormick mentioned is Samuel (no dates prob. c. 1700)
Margaret Orr m. Samuel McCormick
their children:
- Henington McCormick of Dundonald m. Agnes (Nancy) Allen
Margaret McCormick m. Matthew Carruthers of Ballyhanwood
Elizabeth McCormick m. Wm. Summerside
Jane McCormick m. John Kearns of CherryValley (prob. Comber)
Lilly McCormick m. Robert Finlay of "nr. Saintfield"
There are children listed for Marg. Eliz. & Jane
Henington McCormick and Agnes (Nancy) Allen had 3 children:
- Elizabeth McCormick m. John McClure of Ballyrickart
Isabella McCormick m. James Clark of Newtownards
James McCormick (of Mountpottinger) m. Susanna Anderson
There are children listed for Isabella only
James McCormick & Susanna Anderson had 7 children:
- Hugh McCormick
Richard McCormick
Agnes McCormick
Sarah McCormick
James McCormick Jnr.
Gawin McCormick
John McCormick
If you think these are yr. ancestors I can give you details of previous generations.
SG
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???
Sorry Part two doesn't read properly - it should have been:
In the Orr Pedigree (most easily accessed through this version:
Ulster Pedigrees by Ray A. Jones 1977 Lib. of Congress Catalog Card No:77-82468)
one McCormick family from Dundonald is mentioned.
The Pedigree was drawn up by Gawin Orr of Castlereagh (1756-1830).
I do not know what happened to the Bullet points in the 3rd message - the buttons don't deliver what they promise!
SG
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Hi.
Afraid I can't help you with your graveyard query, but have listed a few Allens below, that may work in for you.
I. Marriage.
William Quinn to Eleanor Jane Allen, married in Tullynakill Church of Ireland, Co Down, on the 23 Aug 1849.
Groom, full age, a widower, a potter ??, resided Whitehasen ??(Whitehaven ?).
Father, Marty ?? Quinn, a farmer.
Bride, full age, a spinster, resided Tullynakill.
Father, John Allen, a farmer.
Witnesses, William F. Lindsay and James Parks ??.
Reference in the Register of Marriage, 1849, Newtownards, volume 9, page 53.
2. Marriage.
William Shaw Allen to Jane Quinn, married in the Registrar's Office, Newtownards, on the 4 June 1870.
Groom, age 23, a bachelor, a labourer, resided Ballyoran, Parish of Dundonald.
Father, James Allen, a labourer.
Bride, age 22, a spinster, resided Drumhirk, Parish of Kilmood.
Father, John Quinn, a farmer.
Witnesses, John Wightman and Mary Quinn.
Reference in the Register of Marriage, 1870, Newtownards, volume 6, page 1035.
3. Marriage / 1 birth.
Samuel Allen to Isabella Dickson, married in Gilnahirk Presbyterian Ch., on the 16 July 1889.
Groom, full age, a widower, a labourer, resided Tullyhubbert.
Father, William Allen, a farmer.
Bride, age 20, a spinster, resided Ballykeel.
Father, David Dickson, a farmer.
Witnesses, Thomas James Allen and Sarah Black.
Film reference at the PRONI in Belfast, MIC / 1P / 432, for Gilnahirk Presb., ch.
3A. Child of this marriage.
David Allen, born 25 Oct 1894, Monlough, Co Down.
Christened on the 6 Jan 1895, 1st Presb., Ch., Ballygowan.
4. Marriage / 2 births.
Thomas Quinn to Eliza Allen, married in Killinchy Presb., Ch., on the 15 May 1852.
Groom, full age, a bachelor, a servant, resided Ringneil.
Father, James Quinn, a labourer.
Bride, full age, a spinster, resided Ringneil.
Father, William Allen, a labourer.
Witnesses, Alexander Farmer and Rosanne Allen.
Film reference at the PRONI in Belfast, MIC / 1P / 404, for Killinchy Presb., ch.
4A. 2 Children to this marriage.
No 1. Thomas Quinn, born 10 0ct 1867, Ballygraffin, Kilmood.
Reference in the Register of Births,
1867, Newtownards, volume 16, Page 873.
No 2. Robert Quinn, born 1 June 1870, Ballygraffin, Kilmood.
Reference in the Register of Births,
1870, Newtownards, volume 6, page 1003.
Don't know of a connection to my families.
Regards,
Dixie
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Thanks DixieDee for the Allen information. I don't see any connection to mine. The earliest I have is a Henry Allen born about 1800 to 1820 maybe of Comber parish in County Down.
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EnlerG thanks for all the McCormick information. The earlist McCormick I have is James a weaver probably born about 1800 to 1820. This could be a grandson of the Samuel you mention but there is no way of telling. My James had a son Thomas born about 1847. When this Thomas married in 1868 he was of Ballyrainey, Dundonald parish. Unfortunately that is all I have.
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Hi,
I've just noticed that you want a look up in Vol. 5 of Gravestone inscriptions.
I have it to hand. In Comber Graveyard (C of I) there are two McCormick burials recorded unfortunately no townlands are mentioned:
McCORMICK
[Probably of 1778.] Here lyeth the body of John McCormick, son to Alexander McCorkick who desesed the 7 of March '78 he being of age 12 years.
McCORMICK
[White marble.] In memory of Thomas McCormick who died 23rd Novr. 1863 aged 55 years. Also his son Thomas who died 24th May 1878 aged 19 years. Also his wife Margaret who died 24th Octr. 1879 aged 70 years.
You know that Ballyrainey is on the Dundonald side of Comber but much closer to Comber than Dundonald - but people seemed to manage to ensure that burials took place in the family ground no matter how far that was!
My on my mother's side there are McCormicks from near Killinchy. After 1845 they are buried in the Non-Subscribing Presbyterian Graveyard before that in Killinchy Parish Church - but I do not think that there are gravestones there.
There is another family who have graves in Tullynakill (between Killinchy & Comber).
We think that these families cross Strangford from the Ards Peninsula in the late 18th century. There are burials in graveyards on the peninsula - but I am not certain where.
I will keep a look out for the McCormicks of Ballyrainey.
Hope some of this is of interest
SG
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It is of interest-thanks. But...It is so frustrating as I can never get any farther back in Ireland.
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Hi ,
I noticed you have some relatives of mine on your list, the ones living in Tullyhubbert. I know Samuel Conkey was buried in Moneyreagh presbyterian he was married to Mary Allen, her father was William Allen. I know there is a lot of Allens buried here,
Hope this helps.
Theresa
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Hi,
Some Allens for you. Simpson Allen born circa 1800, probably Killinchy, wife Unknown. His details from sons marriage but am unable to find him anywhere else. Wonder if Simpson was a middle name.
Children Joseph Allen who married Jane Drain 09/09/1854, Killinchy Presbyterian and possibly Eliza Allen who married Thomas Quinn 13/05/1852, Killinchy Presbyterian.
Have 11 children born to Joe Allen and Jane Drain. All born Killinchy.
(i) Agnes dob 18/11/1857 (x) John dob circa 1877 married Sophia Blakely Moneyrea NSP 25/06/1897
(ii) Mary dob 08/01/1859 (xi)Alexander dob circa 1880.
(iii) Jane dob circa 1860 she married David Patton, Killinchy Presbyterian 11/07/1885
(iv) Elizabeth dob 19/04/1861
(v) Henry dob 12/11/1866 married Rebecca Ferguson Dundonald Presbyterian 13/01/1888
(vi) Isabella dob 03/02/1869
(vii) Joseph dob 09/05/1871 married Sarah Mullan Ballyblack Presbyterian N'ards 28/02/1896
(viii) Samuel dob 28/02/1874 married Agnes Moore St. Anne's C Of I, Belfast, 09/09/1906. They moved to Saltcoats, Ayrshire between 1906 and 1911.
(ix) Hugh dob circa 1876 married Annie Caughey Ballymacarrett Presbyterian 16/06/1899.
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Great information. Samuel Allen and Agnes Moore are my Great Grandparents. Now to find more about Jane Drain and Joseph Allen (father Simpson?Allen).
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Hi :)
I have only just recently been able to start on my Dad's side of the family. I knew nothing earlier than my grandfather until I found 2 letters in Mum's desk.
My GtGtGrandfather was Reverend James Miller Killen, minister of Comber 1st Presbyterian from 1843 to 3rd September 1879 in Donaghadee. I too, have been unable to find out where he is buried!
This link has told me so much! Maybe it can help someone else too http://www.comberhistory.com/index.htm#alpha1
Are there any of you out there anywhere that have him in their tree ???
Happy hunting!
snaptoo
added..........oops forgot to say that I have a William Orr in my tree 1800s?
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James Miller Killen
Have you seen this entry
Rev. Dr. James M. KILLEN D.D. Comber lived Downpatrick St, Comber; minister of 1st Presbyterian Church in Cow Lane from 9 May 1843 ; leased 1 acre in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry next to 1st Presbyterian Church & National School; erected the hall in 1869; died suddenly at Donaghadee with family 3 Sep 1879; death notice 6 Sep 1879 POD; TOOC p79,80; GV; NC; HCPCI p98 ; ACOC p27,61-62
Source http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/K/KibKim.htm#kie
Allen of Comber
Have you seen the entries, by finding the Allen databse and then selecting out all listed under Comber http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/A/Allen.htm
There are no Allens in the 1833 list for Kiilinchy
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/killinchy-parish.php#.VTvqFUuDoYU
Allen in Comber 1835
Allen, Dr. Townland: Ballyloughan Year: 1835
Allen, Dr. Townland: Comber Year: 1835
Allen, John Townland: Tullyhubbard Year: 1835
Allen, Simson Townland: Cullentra Year: 1835
Allen, William Townland: Tullyhubbard Year: 1835
see http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/comber-parish.php#.VTvq1UuDoYV
Jane Drain have you see the Jane listed in
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/D/DrDum.htm
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James Miller Killen
Have you seen this entry
Rev. Dr. James M. KILLEN D.D. Comber lived Downpatrick St, Comber; minister of 1st Presbyterian Church in Cow Lane from 9 May 1843 ; leased 1 acre in 1863 from Marquis of Londonderry next to 1st Presbyterian Church & National School; erected the hall in 1869; died suddenly at Donaghadee with family 3 Sep 1879; death notice 6 Sep 1879 POD; TOOC p79,80; GV; NC; HCPCI p98 ; ACOC p27,61-62
Source http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/K/KibKim.htm#kie
Hi :)
Thanks for that, but I have already got it, the death notice entry in full, and his will! Also got this tree with his name on it http://www.rjbw.net/wilsonft.html
Huge family so will be a huge family tree, so I have got a long way to go!
Thanks once again
snaptoo
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samuel allen and agnes moore are my grandparents. Simpson allen was married to mary and i have his deathe cert and also hers. Cannot get back beyond that though would be interested to get in touch my email is Removed
regards
Meg
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