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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Paul Raynsford on Saturday 11 March 17 15:57 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for any information on the ward family backwards from 1840 and anything from any time that the romany gypsie link can be found here is a bit of what I allready know about the family.
Thomas James ward born abt 1843 died abt 1892 (3rd great grandfarther) married a sarah hannah lucy ward (courtneidge) they had several children she may have remaried I only have the name of one of there children but confluting information found saying up to 12 children the child I know is john ward born abt 1886 died abt 1918 (2nd great grandfarther) married a jessie brown (2nd great grandmother) born abt 1871 died abt 1973 they had 7 children edith rose brown/ward, lilly rose ward, Elizabeth ward, cissie amelia ward, nellie ward, John alfred ward, george william ward born 1907 died abt 1973 (my great grandfarther) married harriet ward (carroll)
george john Thomas ward (my grandfather) born 1927 died 2004
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
From FreeBMD:
Marriage, September qtr 1867
Kensington Registration District vol 1a, page 51
Ward, Thomas James
+ and on the same page +
Cortnidge, Sarah Hannah L
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
There is an online tree for the Ward family with the marriage cert of T J Ward to Sarah, 05 Aug 1867, Hammersmith, Middlesex. His father is recorded as Thomas Ward, Labourer, which could be of help. Wits - Robert Bland and Mary Ann Baines.
However, I've been unable to find a birth of John Ward born c.1886 with mother's maiden name of Courtneidge. Do you have John's birth cert to clarify these details?
JJ
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Children's births:
WARD, ELIZABETH COURTNEDGE
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 543
WARD, CHARLES HENRY COURTNEDGE
GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 617
WARD, SARAH COURTNEDGE
GRO Reference: 1875 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 627
WARD, ALFRED ERNEST COURTNEIDGE
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 709
WARD, EMILY COURTNEDGE
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 676
WARD, ALFRED CORTNEDGE
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 662
WARD, ROSINA COURTNAGE
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 719
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Welcome :)
Your dates don't look quite right for John Ward and Jessie Brown: you say he was born c1886 and she c1871, which would make her 15 years older than him.
In fact when they married at Christ Church, Mitcham on 8 June 1908 John was 24, a carman, and Jessie was 26.
His father: James John Ward, hawker (so not Thomas James Ward)
Her father: Henry Robert Brown, compositor
They seem have had a joint wedding with James William Swindle Beckett (another hawker) and Eliza Mary Mabey. Both brides and both grooms were residing at 4 Phipps Terrace, Phipps Bridge Rd. Both marriages were witnessed by the same people: Charles Edward Matthew Mabey, Sarah Ann Mabey and Mary Jane Mabey.
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Welcome :)
Your dates don't look quite right for John Ward and Jessie Brown: you say he was born c1886 and she c1871, which would make her 15 years older than him.
In fact when they married at Christ Church, Mitcham on 8 June 1908 John was 24, a carman, and Jessie was 26.
His father: James John Ward, hawker (so not Thomas James Ward)
Her father: Henry Robert Brown, compositor
They seem have had a joint wedding with James William Swindle Beckett (another hawker) and Eliza Mary Mabey. Both brides and both grooms were residing at 4 Phipps Terrace, Phipps Bridge Rd. Both marriages were witnessed by the same people: Charles Edward Matthew Mabey, Sarah Ann Mabey and Mary Jane Mabey.
hi there thanks for that can I ask were you found this info dates for both of john and jessie I have found mutiple possible dates and also may I ask what is a hawker
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Hawker -
Peddler or street seller. Itinerant street dealer who carried his wares with him.
Source - http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/index.html
JJ
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It would appear that Jessie was living with the Mabey family in 1901 -
Charles Mabey 36
Mary Mabey 36
Lizzie Mabey 16
Edward Mabey 12
Sarah Mabey 10
Dorothy Mabey 8
Joseph Mabey 6
Sidney Mabey 3
Annie Mabey 2
Jessie Brown 21
Edie Brown 6 Weeks
RG13 Piece 471 Folio 22 Page 36
JJ
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Marriage, from FreeBMD:
June qtr 1908
Croydon Registration District vol 2a, page 560
Brown, Jessie
+ and on the same page +
Ward, John
Birth
June qtr 1881
Lambeth Registration District vol 1d, page 465
Brown, Jessie
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Welcome :)
Your dates don't look quite right for John Ward and Jessie Brown: you say he was born c1886 and she c1871, which would make her 15 years older than him.
In fact when they married at Christ Church, Mitcham on 8 June 1908 John was 24, a carman, and Jessie was 26.
His father: James John Ward, hawker (so not Thomas James Ward)
Her father: Henry Robert Brown, compositor
They seem have had a joint wedding with James William Swindle Beckett (another hawker) and Eliza Mary Mabey. Both brides and both grooms were residing at 4 Phipps Terrace, Phipps Bridge Rd. Both marriages were witnessed by the same people: Charles Edward Matthew Mabey, Sarah Ann Mabey and Mary Jane Mabey.
hi there thanks for that can I ask were you found this info dates for both of john and jessie I have found mutiple possible dates and also may I ask what is a hawker
The info found by avm228 is available on Anc***ry.
JJ
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I have had all my information confirmed except that I had missed a generation it appears john ward parents were not thomas and sarah but there daugthere child Elizabeth ward farther I have been told was never traced and he was raised by grandparents as there own
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Hawker -
Peddler or street seller. Itinerant street dealer who carried his wares with him.
Source - http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/index.html
JJ
Hi on your other thread, you now get back to Hawkers/Rag & bone men etc, so the important thing surely is to find John Ward with a relationship to a James John Ward c 1885/6?
Keyboard86
PS so what information do you have that John Ward was raised by Grandparents?
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Hawker -
Peddler or street seller. Itinerant street dealer who carried his wares with him.
Source - http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/index.html
JJ
Hi on your other thread, you now get back to Hawkers/Rag & bone men etc, so the important thing surely is to find John Ward with a relationship to a James John Ward c 1885/6?
Keyboard86
PS so what information do you have that John Ward was raised by Grandparents?
the information was passes onto me by another family member I have recently found who has done more research into the family than I have currently and knows also from family story and alot more about family history also stated that we did originate from romany stock but also unable to 100% identify where the family settled elizabeth was still very young when she had john he was raised as her sibaling rather than her son due to this it was in his later life he was told that his parents where his grandparents and his biological farther was not known he was 25 when he was told this and given his birth certificate naming Elizabeth his birth mother some of the family also branched off and I migrated to the us some time in the mid 1800's also confirmed by the finding of yet another living relative from the USA side of the family mainly I wanted to know about determining a roma family heritage which I know is mine but lost some time in the past was it common for travelers to be born and die at home in a caravan in the late 1700s to mid 1800s the family moved to London in around around 1850 I beleive it was a Thomas ward the first of the family to move into london now there also appears to be two separate ward family's in this era living in and around the oxfordshire area which I can't tie together but names can also conflick especially with john ward as there is another john ward in the same area and born around the same time but they are deffinately two diffrent johns my history can be found at wardancestry.com this is one of my sources of information it is published by a living relative from the lineage in the usa
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Hi again, the problem I have got is all this information you have received from relatives etc does not even supply a census for say 1891/1901 with the John Ward you are happy with who married Jessie Brown?
Keyboard86
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Hi again, the problem I have got is all this information you have received from relatives etc does not even supply a census for say 1891/1901 with the John Ward you are happy with who married Jessie Brown?
Keyboard86
yea I agree with you I have also strugle to find a census record for him in I have been supplied a birth cert for him so it is deffinately the right john ward I have also just received a copy on paper of a family tree created several years back by my own aunt which also confirms my findings
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:) OK that is a start, what details does the birth certificate show eg address, date of birth, parents etc
Keyboard86
PS but just who has defined that this is the John Ward who married Jessie Brown, who cannot provide a census with him on?
The Jessie Brown on the 1901 with the Mabey family also shows an Edie Brown female who was born 21st February 1901 and baptised 8th March 1901 with no Christian name just Brown she was the illegitimate daughter of Jessie Brown of Tooting