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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: lisingreece on Tuesday 07 March 17 13:47 GMT (UK)
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Please can some kind person familiar with Northumberland tell me where Delavel is. I have a John Lawson b abt 1866 Delavel. He is insistent in all the census's that this is where he was born, but can I find this place?? Seaton Delavel, is this the place? He was a coal hewer so it would be near a mine.
Thank you in anticipation
Lis
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I had a quick google and there is evidence that locals may have reffered to Seaton Delaval as simply Delaval.
According to the wikipedia page for Seaton Delaval there is a 19th Century folk song called the 'Blackleg Miner'.
"Oh, Delaval is a terrible place
They rub wet clay in the blackleg's face.
And around the heaps they run a foot race,
To catch the blackleg miner!
So divint gang near the Seghill mine.
Across the way they stretch a line,
To catch the throat and break the spine
Of the dirty blackleg miner!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaton_Delaval
Also the family name of the gentry who owned the land was Delaval. According to this wikipedia entry they owned a mine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaval
So I do think it's possible that locals simply called Seaton Delaval, 'Delaval'.
Funnily enough Rootschatters have been helping me trace someone, who probably isn't my relative as it turns out. However whoever this person is, she answered a census return as Segil and it seemed likely to me that this referred to Seg Hill which is around the corner from the area you are talking about. So it seems that pronunciation and interpretation of names does differ.
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Thank you Ilona, yes you must be right. Now to find a mine at Seaton Delavel. And I used to sing the Blackleg miner.
This family is proving very awkward as every child is born in a different place. I will have to buy some certs to make sure I have the right family.
thank you for your in put
Lis
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According to wikipedia the Delaval family owned a mine which was at a place called Old Hartley.
If you look on google maps it's only a few miles away from Seaton Delaval. It's hard to get a sense of distance as the directions function on gmaps goes the roadway which seems the long way round and is 3.4 miles. As the crow flies it appears to be much shorter.
Also it appears that Seaton Delaval is the second or third closest village to Old Hartley, so I can imagine them taking some workers from that area?
Here is some history about that mine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartley_Colliery_disaster
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Here is a nice blog post with some useful photographs about mines at Seaton Delaval.
http://northumberlandpast.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/seaton-delaval-collieries.html
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Also, do not forget NEW DELAVAL, on the outskirts of Blyth, which also had a coal mine, which closed in the early 1960s.
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great information from you both thank you so much. Lots here for me to follow up
Lis
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There's a great site at Durham Mining museum. Despite the name it covers much of the north of country...
http://www.dmm.org.uk/mindex.htm
Seaton Delaval had a big mine , there are details of this and others in the immediate area. Many people, my ancestors included, worked in several pits in their lifetimes.
As an aside, I can see Seaton Delaval Hall, the home of the Delavals, and now a National Trust property , from my front garden ...
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The waggonways maps are very useful and interesting:
https://sites.google.com/site/waggonways/nz/25/nz2575
You can scroll and zoom into this:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=14&lat=55.0798&lon=-1.5327&layers=1&right=BingHyb
As an aside, I can see Seaton Delaval Hall, the home of the Delavals, and now a National Trust property , from my front garden ...
Half your luck Alisdair! ;) What a wonderful view. :)
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I can attest to Seaton Delaval being a coal-mining centre. In the mid-1950s, a friend's family took me with them to stay in a miner's cottage in SD. The father (my friend's maternal grandfather) had retired but they could stay in the cottage because the son was also a miner. Coming from the middle of Lincolnshire, I was fascinated to see him when he came home because he was so dirty; the first time I saw him, I thought he was the first black man I had ever seen! He would have been a fairly young man, probably in his 30s at the time. Another fascinating thing about him was, he was an absolutely amazing embroiderer...in fact, my friend's granny sent my mum a tablecloth that he had embroidered. He is the only man I have ever met who could embroider; I thought miners grew leeks!
And I believe Seaton Delavel Hall is almost identical to Doddington Hall near Lincoln - same architect.
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lisingreece, Did you ever establish which Delaval your ancestors were from ? It is an afterthought on my part - we people in Blyth area always spoke of SD as 'Seaton Delaval, but New Delaval was always referred to as "Delaval."
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Alisdair GB and Ruskie and Lydiann, thank you so much for taking the trouble to put all this info down for me and my friend whose ancestors these are.
All this is so interesting.
Thank you so much
Lis
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Pityackafromblyth, I did think my Lawson family were from S D but now feeling I have led you all astray I see that "my" Delavel is in the parish of Winlaton or Whickham, so not near Blyth. All very confusing. In the 71 he is from Winlaton. But that aside my friend will be very interested in all the info from the links you all have given me.
Thank you
Lis
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I don't think that there is a Delaval ( which ever spelling ) in the Whickham / Winlaton area. I may well be wrong, but you could check on the Durham forum, as those areas are in "No Man's land" between Tees and Tyne ;)
Don't take the census as being accurate. The enumerators often placed peoples' origins as being where they were living at the time, it's best to get as much information as you can and invest in a birth certificate. Confusingly, from people outside the area, Seaton Delaval was in Tynemouth registration district.
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/tynemouth.html
According to freebmd ( sorry mods if I'm not allowed to give names of sites ), the birth of a John Lawson was registered at Tynemouth in OND 1866
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thank you so much AlisdairGB, The answer as you say is a birth cert. And this I will get. This is a totally confusing family!!!
thank you for your help
Lis
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Lis,
John Lawson age is 3 in 1871, 12 in 1881, 22 in 1891, 32 in 1901, 42 in 1911, so looking for a John born 1868/9.
Checking the births of his siblings from the 71 and 81 census on the GRO website, his mothers maiden name was Studholme/Studholm/Studham.
William Lawson married Ann Studholm, 14/8/1848 South Shields.
The John Lawson birth that matches is Dec qtr 1868 Newcastle, mothers maiden name Studholm.
There was a Delaval Estate in Scotswood, Delaval Benwell Colliery was there.
Alan.
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Thank you Alan for taking the time to follow my Lawson family. I have found the Wm Lawson Ann Studholm marriage in 1848. But I cannot find the births of some of the children citing Ann St as the mother. Please can you show me what you did?
Thank you
Lis
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Lis,
On the GRO website you can now search for births, and it tells you the mothers declared maiden name. You can then use that name to search for siblings.
Dialling in name Lawson for the relevant years, and mothers maiden name Studholm, with phonetic variations.
Thomas Lawson, Sep qtr 1848 South Shields, Mothers maiden name – Studham.
Ann Lawson, Sep qtr 1850 Durham& Lanchester, Mothers maiden name – Studholm.
Robert Lawson, Sep qtr 1852, Gateshead, Mothers maiden name – Studholme.
William Lawson, Dec qtr 1854, Auckland, Mothers maiden name – Studholme.
Dorothy Ann Lawson, Sep qtr 1857, Auckland, Mothers maiden name – Studholm.
Margaret Lawson, Sep qtr 1865, Newcastle, Mothers maiden name – Studholm.
John Lawson, Dec qtr 1868, Newcastle, Mothers maiden name – Studholm.
Elizabeth Lawson, Sep qtr 1870 Gateshead, Mothers maiden name – Studham.
Dorothy Ann Lawson, Sep qtr 1872, Durham, Mothers maiden name - Studholme
Pretty much matches the children in 1871.
its really lucky that Anns maiden name was Studholm as thats fairly rare in Newcastle/Durham. She gives her place of birth consistently as Murton which is just outside of Appleby.
Alan.
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Thank you so much Alan, it's so useful to be able to find the mother's maiden name before 1911!!!
And yes Studholm is a great name to follow and have just been filling out the family members where I can.
back to GRO to research more.
Again thank you so much for your help
Lis
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On a modern map of Newcastle, Delaval Road that runs down from Armstrong Road was the eastern end of the Lower Delaval Housing Estate, now all pulled down. On the old maps it looks like it was the western end of Delaval Farm. This is where the Benwell Delaval Pit was located. Its about a mile from the Scotswood Bridge. The Lawsons were at Addison Pit Village in 1871, other side of Blaydon, about a couple of miles west of the Scotswood Bridge.
Alan.
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On a modern map of Newcastle, Delaval Road that runs down from Armstrong Road was the eastern end of the Lower Delaval Housing Estate, now all pulled down. On the old maps it looks like it was the western end of Delaval Farm. This is where the Benwell Delaval Pit was located. Its about a mile from the Scotswood Bridge. The Lawsons were at Addison Pit Village in 1871, other side of Blaydon, about a couple of miles west of the Scotswood Bridge.
You can see Benwell, and Delaval Farm and colliery on this map of Railways and Waggonways in Northumberland.
They are on the left-hand side of the map, just north of the River Tyne.
https://sites.google.com/site/waggonways/nz/20/nz2065
There was a Delaval Estate in Scotswood, Delaval Benwell Colliery was there.
Here is it - just along the River from 'Paradise' :-\
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101027568#zoom=4&lat=1785&lon=4925&layers=BT
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Thank you Alan and JenB, these maps have opened up my understanding of this area and indeed the pits in this area. I have so much info to take to my friend now.
The maps JenB are wonderful.
Thank you so much
Lis
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Seaton Deleval, just up the road from me. :)
It is a coastal Village, next to Seghill.
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Seaton Deleval, just up the road from me. :)
It is a coastal Village, next to Seghill.
Hi Jennieie :)
If you read 'Wolfie Smith's' analysis in replies #15. #17 and #19 and take a look at the maps I linked to in reply #20 you'll see that in this case it's highly likely that the place in question wasn't Seaton Delaval, as one might expect, but a small setttlement on the River Tyne to the west of Newcastle (just to the east of Scotswood Bridge) which was also (confusingly) called Delaval.